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  1. #181
    eda14's Avatar
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    Listened for a second time and thought about a few things:

    1: Burt tells Nick that revenge doesn't end the pain... Is he a little haunted by what he did to Scratch?

    2: CJ says that the zombies can live for long periods without food. Were the zombies that swam to the boat around before the outbreak and starting to starve, or do they get really thin and starved looking quickly?

    3: Mind is still blown!

  2. #182
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    Wow, my first post (other than my intro)... So glad I can finally feel like a full-fledged member of the Forum at last.

    Just had my own personal listening party for the final episode and I am very happy with it. As people have mentioned, it did feel abrupt, how the Ink arc was completed so quickly. But in retrospect it makes sense. The most important story all along has been about survival and by spending the second half of the episode fast forwarding and giving you glimpses into the future, which revolves around an entirely new plot line (whether Nick will choose to join the Guard or not), it felt like both halves of Chapter 48 were given equal weight. While we the We're Alive audience have viewed the arc of Ink as though it was the most essential storyline, from the survivors' perspective it's just one chapter among many in their lives - and presumably one storyline among thousands that are compelling and intriguing in their own right. It's like the We're Alive universe is brimming with numerous tales to be told and KC simply plucked one out and held up the magnifying glass for us to examine in depth over the past five years (well the past two months for me since I discovered the show really late in its run).

    I think that's what I have loved so much about this work and KC's writing - he does such an excellent job of challenging the audience's perceptions and expectations. Seasons One and Two were top notch but they seemed to follow a conventional and linear zombie survival storyline, though with the element that the zombies don't behave as we expect. And if the show had kept on that way I would have loved it. But then Season Three threw convention out the window with the introduction of Kalani's diary and CJ. The former did this by having us reexamine aspects of the story we thought we understood and relive experiences we thought had been fully fleshed from a different point of view. We soon realize that the significance of any scene is always colored by the context of how we came to see it. And we became aware that KC is a master storyteller because he could take a scene (like Samantha, Datu, and the fat inert dude on the floor that we pray will be the sacrificial lamb to allow them to escape) and make you completely rethink your sympathies by changing the perspective (like Samantha, Datu, and a tragic everyman Kalani, who is desperate to save his daughter from some psychotic criminals).

    With CJ, KC took the normal convention of having the narrator/protagonist be the main hero and leader of the story and turned that on its head as well. After you get to know CJ you realize that someone else could possibly be as capable a leader if not moreso than the one whose perspective you have adopted for the first half of the story. Now of course CJ has her flaws (as does every character in the show, which is another reason I love We're Alive), but she rarely runs out of ideas on what to do, she's less likely succumb to emotions and rush into a decision like Michael does, she doesn't cut people off when they offer a different course of action than her the way Michael did a few times, and she's less likely to blame someone for making a mistake like Michael did early on in the show (he got way better about letting go later on). On the flipside CJ can seem rather cruel and inhumane at times, she puts greater stock in the intellect and less in emotions and feelings, she's really controlling, and she's frankly not as relatable as Michael is and thus is less likable.

    And as for the protagonist not being the main hero of the story, the resolution of the Ink arc showed that ultimately Saul is the one fights Roberts man-to-man and is the one who sacrifices himself to save his friends. Victor is the one who ends up taking down Michael's other main nemesis, Randy. One could argue that Michael didn't actually do anything in his portion of the finale other than narrate. Off the top of my head I can't think of other another work of fiction that manage this feat of disconnecting the protagonist role from the main hero role of the story. As the protagonist one would have expected Michael to defeat the primary antagonist of the story, but instead he was there to witness the antagonist being defeated by someone else, because really only Saul could have beaten Ink due to his immunity. This isn't to say that Michael was not a hero, just that the typical convention that the protagonist has to be the main hero who accomplishes the most important tasks of the story did not hold true with We're Alive. Michael was one hero among many, all of whom were tested at one point or another and called upon to act heroicly for the benefit of the survivors as a group.

    Sorry my post is so long, I've had a lot I wanted to write about but I wanted to wait to complete the whole series before becoming more active on the Forum.

    Some quick points about the finale:

    1) LOVED LOVED LOVED that Kelly and Tanya finally had a chance to go all bad*ss action hero. It seemed like every other main character had his or her moment to shine in an action scene. Did I hear right that they killed the two remaining Mallers (aside from Scratch)?
    2) Saul's callback to CJ's leg-cutting maneuver with the katana when he took down the cocksure Ink. YES!
    3) It strikes me as ironic that Pegs - who has one of the purest hearts on the show (it sounded like she was rushing to Scratch out of concern after she fell off the fire escape), who doesn't entertain any dark thoughts, who hates the idea of killing or even holding a gun, and who is not obsessed with revenge - is the one who ultimately ends Scratch's Reign of Terror. And it was all done so matter of fact (Pegs says something like she missed, I didn't), like she gives the notion of killing Scratch barely a fleeting thought while Scratch spends every waking second wanting to kill Pegs (ditto for Riley and Burt with Scratch). As she's the one who killed Latch as well, Pegs single-handedly hurt Scratch both emotionally and physically where no one else seemed to be able to lay a finger on her. Little did Scratch realize that Pegs was her kryptonite and she should have stayed as far away from her as she could.
    4) That said I was totally creeped out by the Hitchcock/Cask of Amontillado vibe thing going on with Scratch's final scene. Being buried alive is cruel and to hear Scratch sound so fearful and vulnerable - well it made me feel sympathetic towards her even though I spent most of the show wanting her dead after Angel's death. It didn't seem right. But hearing Burt recall what it felt like to nearly starve to death...well I think I need to relisten to his torture scene and then I'll feel better about Scratch's fate.
    5) Victor taking down Randy like it was nothing (another interesting play with perception because to Michael, Randy was this almost "Big Boss"/diabolical villain type that he obsessed about and to Victor, Randy was just another biter). And the callback about how Victor promised he'd never let another zombie get close again. Perfection.
    6) Whoever played Nick is a strong actor. He totally sounded like a young version of Saul. Kudos on the casting!
    7) Lastly, CJ mentioned other survivor enclaves out there (some good and some not). Hmm... Atlanta is certainly out there. Walking Dead/We're Alive crossover?

    Thank you KC for a wonderful show. I really appreciate everything you did with We're Alive. It has literally been my life the past 2 1/2 months. You're writing and ability to dip into so many different types of genres (comedy, horror, drama, suspense) effortlessly is incredible. The ending was so satisfying. I'm sure I'll post more in the Forum in the future and I look forward to Tales, but what an incredible run you had with this story. You have a lifelong fan of your work in me and I can't wait to see what you do next. As my finances allow, I will definitely be sending donations your way (I like the idea that we, your fans, can collectively act as your benefactor or patron). I know you earned barely anything for We're Alive but know that your work has meant more to me than any commercial work of art that has come out in television or in the cineplexes for the past 10 years. My wish for you is that you are able to earn a living off your art because you are so good at it and the world deserves to see more of it.

    --Eric

  3. #183
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airrunner View Post
    ... Sorry my post is so long, I've had a lot I wanted to write about but I wanted to wait to complete the whole series before becoming more active on the Forum. ...
    --Eric
    Go on, Eric. I like your perspective and your perception. If there is more to tell, go ahead!
    Likes airrunner liked this post
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  4. #184
    airrunner's Avatar
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    Just listened again to Episode 48. I actually went to bed listening to it. I find hearing all the characters' voices to be soothing, like they're all my friends. I know, how sad.

    A few additional observations (and thanks Liam):

    1. I was wrong about Michael and the Ink arc. He did do something important as he enabled Saul to take down the tattooed guy. Hope played an analogous role for Pegs with the Scratch arc.

    2. It's really cool that the whole LA crew appears to be raising Nick together, each imparting is or her own bit of wisdom on the kid, who appears to be soaking it all in. Maybe the survivors will have their own version of the Little One - a super soldier with the soul of Saul, the heart of Pegs, the vision of Michael, the boldness and sharp-shooting skill of Burt, the forethought and attention to detail of CJ, the healthy skepticism of Judge Kelly, the intellectual curiousity of Tanya, the willingness to see past limitations like Hope, the healthy sense of humor and fun from Uncle Vic, the appreciation of service to the Colony and fellow humankind from Sgt. Puck, and the ability to tap into his emotions like Riley, all along with an innate ability to relate to and understand other people (a gift from his mother), and perhaps the mastery over water (thanks to Pete, ha ha!).

    3. Mr. Whiskers survived! But what about Lady? I feel like cats can live longer than dogs so it doesn't look so good for Saul's other girl.

    4. I think I read someone wishing Michael was playing more of a leadership role with the Colony. I only heard a few references to the Colony's form of government, referred to as "The Council." it sounds like Michael and Pegs both serve on it and CJ must be the head of it (probably like a Speaker of the House, moreso than say a Prime Minister or President) as she can simply cancel meetings. All three appear to be leaders then.

    5. Who did CJ have a daughter with? The only person I noticed who seemed to be at her beck and call was Max and presumably he didn't survive his encounter with the Mallers.

    6. One last more general comment about We're Alive, it's depiction of women in roles the typical piece of fiction would normally reserve for men is refreshing. All the best-trained and able-bodied men are sent out to tackle one of the main villains leaving basically a ragtag team of ordinary women (they definitely weren't Project Alice, Sarah Connor or Ripley types) to hold down the fort against the other Big Baddie, who also is a woman. This was done without anyone drawing any special attention to it. Scratch was treated like any other villain would be, including a macabre fate that was warranted by her actions. Pegs, Kelly, Hope, Tanya, and CJ were left to save themselves like any other group of survivors would be. Take any of them out and throw in a different character and I would have been just as worried about their predicament and just as hopeful that they made it out alive. Gender, race, physical disability, sexual orientation - none of it means anything in a world of survival and that's how it should be.

  5. #185
    Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airrunner View Post
    5. Who did CJ have a daughter with? The only person I noticed who seemed to be at her beck and call was Max and presumably he didn't survive his encounter with the Mallers.
    Sounds strange, I know... But I got this funny feeling that it's Burt... Something about the way they talk to each other in the end... But WHO knows?
    Storm -- < '!' >

    To see a world in a grain of sand
    And a heaven in a wild flower
    Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    And eternity in an hour

  6. #186
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airrunner View Post
    Gender, race, physical disability, sexual orientation - none of it means anything in a world of survival and that's how it should be.


    And not only in a story of survival, but everywhere anytime.
    Likes Witch_Doctor, Storm liked this post
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  7. #187
    GreggSz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    Sounds strange, I know... But I got this funny feeling that it's Burt... Something about the way they talk to each other in the end... But WHO knows?
    CJ told Burt it upset her daughter when she showed up unannounced. If Burt was the father I think CJ would have use our daughter. CJ probably fell for one of the other 10k new members of the colony unless it was the last act of kindness by Saul?

  8. #188
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    Here's officially my first post on the forum. (Yaay me!) However, I would get my weekly fix by reading and comparing my own theories to those on this forum. I can honestly and humbly admit I was wrong many more times than right at predicting the story. That is a testament to KC's ability in writing a masterful script that challenges it's listeners from start to finish. Outstanding work to KC and crew. My deepest and sincerest thank you for sharing such an awesome work of art!

    Quick thoughts
    15 years have passed and humanity is gradually beginning to rebuild, repopulate, and create something resembling a world lost to biters. Essentially, aren't the biters doing the same and buying time to make a run at the humans? After their numbers have been replenished we shouldn't expect them to be passive but to attack with a vengeance? After all, we witnessed this at the Tower, Dunbar, Irwin, Boulder, and the colony."If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience"
    Likes airrunner, Litmaster, LiamKerrington liked this post

  9. #189
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    Gamertag: G00er PSN ID: Gooergaming Steam ID: Gooergaming
    Quote Originally Posted by GreggSz View Post
    CJ told Burt it upset her daughter when she showed up unannounced. If Burt was the father I think CJ would have use our daughter. CJ probably fell for one of the other 10k new members of the colony unless it was the last act of kindness by Saul?
    If it was Saul's 2nd baby, it would of been mentioned, not left in the air.

  10. #190
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    Tammy told me that all of the surviving characters have a voice on the council in some way or another, which makes sense for their contributions. CJ's baby daddy is one last great mystery of the series, but I will throw out a ball that makes me chuckle. I say it is Pete! I can't type that without laughing...but maybe she wanted a third water bottle and one thing led to another...

    Ok but I had an epiphany out in the grueling labour and hot sun of my work. There is an underlying message in We're Alive showing us the heart of KC Wayland. KC is Team Jacob for the Twilight series:

    -Saul, a popular character, prefers dogs over cats as well as Mr Whiskers is a symbol of death and could be plotting against the characters. Lady on the other hand, is group therapy for the Tower and is always a priority to be protected. Burt is the only one to ever say anything bad about her. Mr Whiskers is at first only appreciated by Pegs, with Riley, Saul, Lizzie and Victor all at some point making negative comments towards him. The fear Mr Whiskers may be a zombie, but never hold such fears for Lady. Thus dog>cat. In Twilight, Jacob is a werewolf, while Edward has feline traits, described as roaring like a lion, etc.

    -Next up we have Scratch, who lost the ability to have children and lives vicariously through the first pregnant woman she has in her power. She is fiercely protective of pregnant Lizzie, insists on giving her the best care, but is clearly more interested in the baby than in Lizzie. In the finale she is willing to at least feign giving up her ultimate revenge against Pegs in order to take Nicholas, acquiring him becoming her new primary objective. This is almost exactly what Rosalie does in Breaking Dawn, albeit with more guns. The one thing she wants most is to have a child and is willing to use Bella to get a baby. Scratch of course is a villain, and Rosalie is seen negatively from Jacob's perspective. To the point where Jacob believes that Rose would sacrifice everyone else in order to have that baby. In We're Alive we are meant to have the same perspective as Jacob in this scenario.

    -Ink is pale, hides underground and bites the neck, all things associated with vampires. He also wears a suit, which is classy, just like the Cullens are well dressed and classy. Ink is a villain, so vampires are evil, and their natural enemy, the werewolf, is our friend.

    -One of Michael's themes is learning to adapt, breaking rules and making his own. It is shown that characters who go half-cocked, making the Hail Mary passes are in general more successful than those who spend their time over thinking things. Saul rarely had any long term plans and in general was quite successful with his improvisations. CJ's over-thought master plans tended to fail in their execution and needed the on the fly thinking of Saul and Victor. Michael makes more vague plans as the series goes on, assessing situations in the moment and this leads to greater successes. Edward over-thinks everything while Jacob always flies by the seat of his pants.

    So in conclusion, as the burning sun revealed to me, We're Alive is saying Team Jacob!
    There can be no more than half a dozen logical fallacies in my thinking here.
    Likes Storm, Litmaster liked this post
    "That Canadian" - Brittney Brombacher. My official title as of August 8
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    Skittles will be the last survivor


 
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