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  1. #161
    Osiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamKerrington View Post
    Well, in all honesty: it makes them pathetic to a certain degree. I only understand them, because people react to certain situations very different. I really hated Saul for his wild heart for quite a while; the cold-blooded murder of Pippin performed by Kalani still freaks me out; and about Riley I am steal very concerned and hope that she does not follow that dark road.
    As for Scratch: We received three basic and important background information on her: she was a victim of violence and tragedy, and she deserves all my sorrow and grief for what happened back then; she did everything to get her brother out of prison; and her main agenda is to take revenge on the one person that took his brother's life and thus took away the last "warm feelings" from Scratch. As with Kalani, Saul, and Riley: I do understand.
    In both cases I am not willing to go any further. There is no reason to justify or excuse things; maybe some of these things may seve as explanations, but nothing more than that.

    Besides: If you are willing to neglect Scratch's "evilness" because of her dark and shadowy past thus putting everything about her into context, why wouldn't you accept the context of Kalani's story? Isn't this kind of a double-standardization as well? That struck my mind last night ...

    Best wishes!
    Liam
    I'm not trying to excuse her actions, I'm merely drawing attention to the fact that our perspective is skewed. It's just how the story is being told. Sure, she's done some bad shit, but nobody in the story is innocent or without something shady or sinister in their past. We still don't know the extent of Angel's involvement with Scratch, and likely never will. Kalani killed a man in cold-blood. Pegs murdered a man in cold-blood. How many died during the attack on the tower on Scratch's side? Let me remind you, many of them were "slaves" and not there by choice. So then we get into an argument for guilt by association, and away we go again.

    I'm actually a big fan of Kalani (loved hearing Kevin Flood's voice), and I had absolutely no trouble accepting his story. It made sense. I never felt as though the way he acted was at all wrong. I would have done the same in his position without guilt. I don't know if I would have flown the chopper into the tower, but...

    My only point in all this is:

    Burt and Riley are at the top of a slippery slope, and it won't take much to put them (especially Riley) in the same category as Scratch. They're both out for vengeance.
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    joint-point-counter-joint

  2. #162
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    Those are the facts as you see them, yes. Some of it is speculative, some is a matter of perspective.

    For the record, the reason behind the war at the tower, the attacks on the Michael's group... the entire Scratch arc all hinges on one act. Burt shooting the mirror of the tanker truck in Scratch's first appearance in an attempt to assert his alpha dog status. Burt's ego got all of those people killed. Burt's actions caused Pegs to be hunted, Lizzy to be kidnapped, and almost raped, and CJ to lose her leg.
    I am not so certain about this.
    (1) I wonder why Scratch would be so freaked out to react so childish to the dismissive behaviour of a total stranger (Burt).
    (2) Also the whole Tower-thing was heavily fueled by the actions of Kalani. I really wonder how much the war or something along that line would have happened, if the whole Kalani arc was not involved. Before Kalani the Mallers' attention was on Dunbar, actually, although the Towerites had "stolen" the tanker-rig ...

    Best wishes!
    Liam
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    I'm not trying to excuse her actions, I'm merely drawing attention to the fact that our perspective is skewed. It's just how the story is being told. Sure, she's done some bad shit, but nobody in the story is innocent or without something shady or sinister in their past. We still don't know the extent of Angel's involvement with Scratch, and likely never will. Kalani killed a man in cold-blood. Pegs murdered a man in cold-blood. How many died during the attack on the tower on Scratch's side? Let me remind you, many of them were "slaves" and not there by choice. So then we get into an argument for guilt by association, and away we go again.

    I'm actually a big fan of Kalani (loved hearing Kevin Flood's voice), and I had absolutely no trouble accepting his story. It made sense. I never felt as though the way he acted was at all wrong. I would have done the same in his position without guilt. I don't know if I would have flown the chopper into the tower, but...

    My only point in all this is:

    Burt and Riley are at the top of a slippery slope, and it won't take much to put them (especially Riley) in the same category as Scratch. They're both out for vengeance.
    Pegs did not shoot in cold-blood. She was desperate and near panicking, and in my understanding she was not knowing what she would do.
    The fallen slaves and Mallers at the Tower have fallen, because after all it was Durai's and/or Scratch's decision to force them into a battle, where the Tower-folks would simply defend themselves.

    Burt and Riley: 100% d'accord.
    Likes Vlarken, Witch_Doctor, Elisa, Verse, Storm liked this post
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  4. #164
    Osiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamKerrington View Post
    I am not so certain about this.
    (1) I wonder why Scratch would be so freaked out to react so childish to the dismissive behaviour of a total stranger (Burt).
    (2) Also the whole Tower-thing was heavily fueled by the actions of Kalani. I really wonder how much the war or something along that line would have happened, if the whole Kalani arc was not involved. Before Kalani the Mallers' attention was on Dunbar, actually, although the Towerites had "stolen" the tanker-rig ...

    Best wishes!
    Liam
    Scratch reacts to Burt's language, and posturing. There's nothing childish about it. Again, it's a pissing contest. You have two personalities that clash, and both desperately need to come out on top.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiamKerrington View Post
    Pegs did not shoot in cold-blood. She was desperate and near panicking, and in my understanding she was not knowing what she would do.
    The fallen slaves and Mallers at the Tower have fallen, because after all it was Durai's and/or Scratch's decision to force them into a battle, where the Tower-folks would simply defend themselves.

    Burt and Riley: 100% d'accord.
    I disagree. Pegs didn't have to shoot. There's any number of ways she could have handled that situation. She made the choice to kill, unfortunately, she killed someone who was loved deeply, and as we've seen throughout the show: if you kill a loved one, expect to answer for it.
    joint-point-counter-joint

  5. #165
    REZombie's Avatar
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    Gamertag: ZombieMorbid
    I havn't read all the post, but i'm not upset with Riley.... Its a tough world in Zombie Acres, and Tardust is not one i would want to stick around....So a little light torture for info, probably more psychological then actual "torture", see what comes out and then a bullet to the head.... but hey, i lean more toward my survival and the ones around me...dont really like loose ends laying around.


    Not sure whats gonna happen next episode....i believe Tardust actually, but i'd still kill him. I do think Scratch is knows whats going on with him though, i just dont think he knows it.
    "You may find me dead in a ditch one day...But by God you'll find me in a pile of brass!"


    The hardest part about the Zombie Apocalypse will be pretending that i'm NOT excited!

  6. #166
    Gooer's Avatar
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    Can't keep up with all these posts, you all say so much......
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    Those are the facts as you see them, yes. Some of it is speculative, some is a matter of perspective.

    For the record, the reason behind the war at the tower, the attacks on the Michael's group... the entire Scratch arc all hinges on one act. Burt shooting the mirror of the tanker truck in Scratch's first appearance in an attempt to assert his alpha dog status. Burt's ego got all of those people killed. Burt's actions caused Pegs to be hunted, Lizzy to be kidnapped, and almost raped, and CJ to lose her leg.
    But, surely it is Durai's fault, as it was his idea to attack the tower, after Scratch told him it existed, not due to Burt shooting the mirror of the tanker. Either way, Scratch and Latch followed them, so they would of stumbled onto the tower anyway, even if Saul, Lizzy and Burt hadn't stopped, leading them to tell Durai about it being occupied. It was his decision to attack the tower, which lead to the events of Latch's death, the tower burning, the zombies coming and attacking the tower, the second attack on the tower, etc......

    P.S. Sorry if it's been covered, too many pages to go through...
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  8. #168
    7oddisdead's Avatar
    omnipresent

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    Gamertag: t0dd i5 d3ad PSN ID: --- Steam ID: --- Wii Code: ---
    not nearly enough pages bro. we will beat this dead horse! dammit!
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    KAW

    W/A convoy supply and general manager: info? follow ? > @_toddisdead

  9. #169
    Footbutt's Avatar
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    all this talk on torture but i won't be surprised if Riley never even gets to it. something like a call over the previously-though-defunct radio or even a well-placed cutaway will leave all of these forum speculations in the dust!

    Tardust seems like the guy that would break at the drop of the hat. did you not hear the genuine panic in his voice when he was awakened by Burt and Riley?

    the end result: one more dead maller; no leads.
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  10. #170
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    Scratch reacts to Burt's language, and posturing. There's nothing childish about it. Again, it's a pissing contest. You have two personalities that clash, and both desperately need to come out on top.
    Well, then don't forget that it was Scratch who started to get some heat into the situation; when Latch and Saul started to bargain and Lizzy wanted to join, Scratch barked a threat, which then started and fueled the mutual hatred between her and Burt. Also: Since there are two pigheads, the whole escalation is the result of the actions and reactions of both. Scratch, too, especially with knowing that she had no ammo at her hand, could have backed off, licked her "emotional wounds" and could have simply ignored what has happened. But she didn't - instead she decided to tell her mirror-image that she would have more mighty balls than anyone else, especially Burt. That's kind of f*cked up ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    I disagree. Pegs didn't have to shoot. There's any number of ways she could have handled that situation. She made the choice to kill, unfortunately, she killed someone who was loved deeply, and as we've seen throughout the show: if you kill a loved one, expect to answer for it.
    Too bad that this is true for almost any dead one killed by other human beings.
    Pegs did not shoot to kill LAtch; she shot at a Maller appearing in a window, because she was frightened to death and because she was cornered; she pulled the trigger several times, and she probably expected someone to die, but this was not her intention. I take it that Pegs hoped to only wound him and make him flee, because she herself did not want to be shot or at least captured. And all this happened during an attempt of the Mallers to attack, raid, maybe take over the Tower. Ok, Pegs could have acted differently: She could have set up a pot of tea, some biscuits and hope that she would play some turns of Romé with a Maller, because that is why the Mallers only attacked - they wanted to play, and poor Pegs got it all wrong., over-reacted and cold-bloodedly killed a Maller ... Yeah, right ...

    Speaking of the attack: Considering the whole picture the Tower was attacked because of the "rat's behaviour", aka Kalani's efforts of betrayal. But one must not forget who started it all: Scratch made him act like he did. He informed the Mallers, the Mallers considered an attack, Scratch ordered Kalani to start the shooting in order to fake a counter-attack, and in the combat that took place her brother was shot. So actually Scratch has to take some huge pile of responsibility for the death of her own brother. She is to blame, and not Pegs actually defending herself.

    Best wishes!
    Liam
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.


 
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