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  1. #121
    Witch_Doctor's Avatar
    Mofo with the Mojo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1274 View Post
    I think Burt's hesitance on the Torture thing is because of what he went through with Scratch...

    He sort of reminds me of the U.S. Senator from Arizona, John McCain. Tortured as a POW in Vietnam, against the U.S.' use of torture.
    Call Sign: Jive Turkey
    Ladies and Gentlemen, straight from Mysterical Island, it's the Shaman of Schiznick, the Mofo with the Mojo, the Mad Scientist of the Jungle, the Doctor is in!
    Doctor? Doctor who?
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  2. #122
    Witch_Doctor's Avatar
    Mofo with the Mojo

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmchawk View Post
    How times change people. Riley wasn't willing to Kill Bill if she felt threatened but now she is willing to torture an unarmed person for information.
    Yes, and Micheal was ready to kill Bill to get access to the roof.

    Likes Verse liked this post
    Call Sign: Jive Turkey
    Ladies and Gentlemen, straight from Mysterical Island, it's the Shaman of Schiznick, the Mofo with the Mojo, the Mad Scientist of the Jungle, the Doctor is in!
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  3. #123
    Osiris's Avatar
    Ostentatious Legume

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannit View Post
    Scratch is a really interesting character and I agree with you 100% that she is just another person with problems. In my opinion, I think the story leads people to hate her as we don't get the same level of detail about her as we do of the other characters. All of our experiences with Scratch are from the point of view of the "good guys" in the story. It's easy for them to hate her given what has happened and in a live-or-die type of situation it's reasonable.

    At some point I think it'd be really interesting to see Scratch's journal. Maybe after the show is finished? It could explain a lot of questions I have about her and others may have too. What did she do before Z-Day? What was it that caused her and Latch to be so close? Yeah they're siblings but their bond seems to go much further than that. Did she go through a progression like we're seeing with Riley? For all we know she could've been a kindergarten teacher at one point. It'd be great to get the other side of the story.

    Kc, there's a money-generating idea for you. Sell the Scratch journal to make some money for your next project! With as thorough as you are about the story, I wouldn't be surprised if an outline of one exists already anyways.

    ETA:

    There's always a way back!
    I can't see Scratch sitting down to do any sort of journalling at the end of the day beyond a grocery list. She seems more the type to try to avoid dealing with her emotions. She certain has a Shit List though.
    Likes Jannit liked this post
    joint-point-counter-joint

  4. #124
    Osiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor View Post
    Yes, and Micheal was ready to kill Bill to get access to the roof.

    Not for nothing, but she was sofa king hot in that movie.
    joint-point-counter-joint

  5. #125
    Orinks's Avatar
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    As I said on Twitter yesterday, I'm upset with what Riley and Burt, mainly Riley, is about to do. Angel's death is fueling her motive to carry out this action.
    However, I can see the reason why Burt is so suspicious. Whenever any of the group is in the presents of a Maller it's just Red Alert instantly. They simply can't be trusted, even if they are telling the truth, the meer fact that Tardust was with the Mallers justifies their actions, so Riley thinks. That and the unnecessary death of Angel.
    I can see where they're coming from and what they're thinking, but only bad can come from this. And I hope Riley learns that with the upcoming actions they're about to take, since Burt already knows because he actually let Riley choose what she wanted. Also, Burt's previous military experience would indicate that he knows that the right answer would be to not go ahead with this torchure.
    Another thought I have is that, of course, Burt is still pissed at Scratch for what she did to him. So that part of him is just itching to see Tardust or Scratch have a taste of their own medicen, Scratch especially. Burt, if he was thinking rationally, should've told Riley "We're not doing this."
    Just my two sense.
    Last edited by Orinks; May 6th, 2014 at 01:11 PM.

  6. #126
    Jannit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    I can't see Scratch sitting down to do any sort of journalling at the end of the day beyond a grocery list. She seems more the type to try to avoid dealing with her emotions. She certain has a Shit List though.
    True but a girl can dream!
    Likes Osiris liked this post

  7. #127
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
    Blogger from the 9th Floor of the Tower

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post

    I put everyone into that category not for being a fan of Riley, but for their staunch refusal to see Scratch as a person with problems, and merely a being of pure, unredeemable evil. They tend to be the same people who lost their minds over Kalani being the rat, but felt sorry for him because of the circumstance they were privy to, roundly accepting his last act as one of redemption. The double standard is what turns me off. I don't care if you like the post or not, it doesn't stop it from being true, the Kalani fiasco is proof of this.
    I understand that Scratch's behavior as a survivor and a toughened, hardened and strong woman roots in the fate she had. And I feel very sorry for her that she was forced to follow that dark road.
    But I am not willing to accept this as an explanation, justification, or simply general reason for any behavior of her. The killing of Charly? Taking Kalani's child hostage in order to force him to do things he wouldn't have done? Twisting words in anyones mouth and to distort the sense of their talkings just to get a better position? Her vile attempt to make Angel speak in her favor, and then by failing with her attempts simply to kill him? And then the torture of Burt, just because she wanted to know where Pegs is? Except for the confrontation with Durai none of these things have to do with the struggle of her survival or can be linked back to her fate. What she did (and still does) is making everyone and everything responsible for her situation without caring for the correct links. She crosses lines as she likes, and almost everything she does is only about herself, her self-pity, lust for revenge, murder, deceit. There are only very few moments in which she has shown a different side. And I would have loved to see more of it to change my mind. But even though she somehow "helped" Lizzy, and although she seems to keep to some very basic core-ideas of working together with a few other survivors, she really is just that: evil. And I don't see anything that could justify, explain, or excuse it. Some time in the past she disconnected from most values, and she sticks with her ways not accepting that there could be others who have just the same right to survive and live their own lives.

    As for Kalani: Granted. I only understand, why he did what he did. And I totally agree with Kalani, when he has said that a father would do anything to save his child. That does not make anything he did right; and here, too, there is no excuse or justification for him being a rat and adding a lot to the deep jeopardy the Tower-people got into; but people should remember: basically it was Saul's crazyness that lead to the fall of the Tower, and only very few voices have criticized that. Anyway: Kalani's deeds were the deeds of desperation. And you cannot blame him alone for doing so without considering Scratch's part in it. After all she made him her tool; and if he had not complied, Hannah would have been dead even earlier, and maybe he, too. Why? Because Scratch behaves like that. Because Scratch is an evil bitch. If she does not get what she wants, she puts people into deep misery - this happened with Charly, with Durai, Angel with direct murdering, and indirectly with most other folks around.

    I guess we will disagree about this forever.

    That does not matter.

    And yet I agree with you that living by double-standards is way too common.

    And yeah, you don't need to tell me that you don't care about likes and shit; I know you don't care. You simply did not get my point, which is: don't put everyone into the same pot, when it is obvious that the opinions vary a lot more than your postings imply. It is not "all", just maybe "some" or "many", depending on what exact topic you refer to.

    Best wishes!
    Liam
    Likes clem131, EpiEpee, Elete23, Verse, Elisa and 2 others liked this post
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  8. #128
    YetAnotherBloodyCheek's Avatar
    "Destroyer"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor View Post
    Yes, and Micheal was ready to kill Bill to get access to the roof.

    WTF? Go Go!

    Likes Witch_Doctor, Osiris liked this post
    Pegs' pretty precious potato planter

  9. #129
    7oddisdead's Avatar
    omnipresent

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    Gamertag: t0dd i5 d3ad PSN ID: --- Steam ID: --- Wii Code: ---
    Osiris has made a lot of valid points.

    the difference between scratches path and riley's goes like this.

    we were given a glint into why scratch obsesses over her revenge for latch via the conversation she had with Lizzie. Her path of obsession and determination started a long time ago. Can you fault someone for seeing a goal and doing everything within their power to reach it? I can't. Does that mean everyone around her dies to reach it? Yea, kinda looks that way, doesn't it. But, that's her path..has been since we met her in the story.

    riley has not been on the same path. She has been the broken glue that binds a bunch of broken people together. Her obsession is not guided by revenge, or a sense of duty, but more so by a sense of guilt(to me it seems so at least) that makes her change ugly, and signs of slipping to a dark side of sorts.

    scratches dark nature has been there from the beginning, it could be redeemed -however unlikely that is- because she is not broken-. Her emotions are solid,, no matter how misguided they may be. Riley.....well...this is the kind off progression we should have expected..

    hope that makes sense...damn tiny keyboard
    Likes LiamKerrington, Cabbage Patch, Osiris liked this post
    KAW

    W/A convoy supply and general manager: info? follow ? > @_toddisdead

  10. #130
    Osiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamKerrington View Post
    I understand that Scratch's behavior as a survivor and a toughened, hardened and strong woman roots in the fate she had. And I feel very sorry for her that she was forced to follow that dark road.
    But I am not willing to accept this as an explanation, justification, or simply general reason for any behavior of her. The killing of Charly? Taking Kalani's child hostage in order to force him to do things he wouldn't have done? Twisting words in anyones mouth and to distort the sense of their talkings just to get a better position? Her vile attempt to make Angel speak in her favor, and then by failing with her attempts simply to kill him? And then the torture of Burt, just because she wanted to know where Pegs is? Except for the confrontation with Durai none of these things have to do with the struggle of her survival or can be linked back to her fate. What she did (and still does) is making everyone and everything responsible for her situation without caring for the correct links. She crosses lines as she likes, and almost everything she does is only about herself, her self-pity, lust for revenge, murder, deceit. There are only very few moments in which she has shown a different side. And I would have loved to see more of it to change my mind. But even though she somehow "helped" Lizzy, and although she seems to keep to some very basic core-ideas of working together with a few other survivors, she really is just that: evil. And I don't see anything that could justify, explain, or excuse it. Some time in the past she disconnected from most values, and she sticks with her ways not accepting that there could be others who have just the same right to survive and live their own lives.

    As for Kalani: Granted. I only understand, why he did what he did. And I totally agree with Kalani, when he has said that a father would do anything to save his child. That does not make anything he did right; and here, too, there is no excuse or justification for him being a rat and adding a lot to the deep jeopardy the Tower-people got into; but people should remember: basically it was Saul's crazyness that lead to the fall of the Tower, and only very few voices have criticized that. Anyway: Kalani's deeds were the deeds of desperation. And you cannot blame him alone for doing so without considering Scratch's part in it. After all she made him her tool; and if he had not complied, Hannah would have been dead even earlier, and maybe he, too. Why? Because Scratch behaves like that. Because Scratch is an evil bitch. If she does not get what she wants, she puts people into deep misery - this happened with Charly, with Durai, Angel with direct murdering, and indirectly with most other folks around.

    I guess we will disagree about this forever.

    That does not matter.

    And yet I agree with you that living by double-standards is way too common.

    And yeah, you don't need to tell me that you don't care about likes and shit; I know you don't care. You simply did not get my point, which is: don't put everyone into the same pot, when it is obvious that the opinions vary a lot more than your postings imply. It is not "all", just maybe "some" or "many", depending on what exact topic you refer to.

    Best wishes!
    Liam
    Funny, it's only an act of desperation if you have the complete context. If you preclude knowledge of Kalani's daughter, it comes across in a very different light--even though he's still trying in desperation to save her life. Context is everything. We don't have all of the context surrounding Scratch. We have snippets, and throw-away lines about her past. Because we have the information to do so, we put Kalani, Riley, and eventually Saul's actions into context which won't vilify them. It'll make them sympathetic.
    joint-point-counter-joint


 
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