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Thread: Who failed?

  1. #1
    YetAnotherBloodyCheek's Avatar
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    Who failed?

    Ok,

    just another round of my stupid questions. Sorry, guys.

    Let's take a look at the United States Intelligence Community (USIC). According to en.wikipedia.org, it has 16 members:

    Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
    United States Department of Defense
    Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency (AFISRA)
    Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM)
    Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
    Marine Corps Intelligence Activity (MCIA)
    National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)
    National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
    National Security Agency (NSA)
    Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
    United States Department of Energy
    Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence (OICI)
    United States Department of Homeland Security
    Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A)
    Coast Guard Intelligence (CGI)
    United States Department of Justice
    Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
    Drug Enforcement Administration, Office of National Security Intelligence (DEA/ONSI)
    United States Department of State
    Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)
    United States Department of the Treasury
    Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI)

    There is also the United States Environmental Protection Agency.

    So here is my question, against the background of z-day, does it seem likely that all of these organizations were completely clueless and unprepared, provided that z-day was a globally planned attack? What about all the financial and information flows? Or could we not just say that the only valid explanation for z-day is a supernatural one?

    I mean, sarcastically put, I guess there is more information about me stored somewhere in the U.S. than in Germany.
    Likes scbubba, LiamKerrington, Osiris liked this post
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  2. #2
    Osiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek View Post
    Ok,

    just another round of my stupid questions. Sorry, guys.

    Let's take a look at the United States Intelligence Community (USIC). According to en.wikipedia.org, it has 16 members:

    Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
    United States Department of Defense
    Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency (AFISRA)
    Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM)
    Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
    Marine Corps Intelligence Activity (MCIA)
    National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)
    National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
    National Security Agency (NSA)
    Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
    United States Department of Energy
    Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence (OICI)
    United States Department of Homeland Security
    Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A)
    Coast Guard Intelligence (CGI)
    United States Department of Justice
    Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
    Drug Enforcement Administration, Office of National Security Intelligence (DEA/ONSI)
    United States Department of State
    Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)
    United States Department of the Treasury
    Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI)

    There is also the United States Environmental Protection Agency.

    So here is my question, against the background of z-day, does it seem likely that all of these organizations were completely clueless and unprepared, provided that z-day was a globally planned attack? What about all the financial and information flows? Or could we not just say that the only valid explanation for z-day is a supernatural one?

    I mean, sarcastically put, I guess there is more information about me stored somewhere in the U.S. than in Germany.
    Those who needed to know, knew. Those that didn't, did not. I vote: de-population initiative.
    joint-point-counter-joint

  3. #3
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    And don't forget: All in all there are about 3.000 legal bodies - based in public authorities as well as private/ independent organizations - which are concerned about safety and security in the US alone ... They could be added to your 16 entities.
    And yes: If there were warning signs, someone must have fucked up - big time. But imagine this: A world without a "real threat" in zombies, which were only covered in pop-culture; now imagine the poor bastard, er, agent that found out something; and he told his boss. His boos told him: "Son. Your file is clean up until now. You are one of those ambitious young agents in this organization. Your file is not stained with failed operations, disrespect against your superiors or collegaues. Nothing. And now that ... Let me see. You haven't had holidays for almost a year now. Don't you think it's time, to take some days off?"
    "But Sir!"
    "The urgent stuff can be delt with. Your partner is just as good as anyone else ..."
    "But, but ... SIR!"
    "I think you don't understood me in the first place. This was not a question. It was a request. Take a few days off."
    "But ..."
    "Shut up. And don't you talk to anyone about a threat of zombies ... I don't want to hear anything about it again ..."
    Moments of desperation, a short silence. Then: "Dismissed!"

    All the best!
    Liam
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  4. #4
    scbubba's Avatar
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    The other option is that it falls under the "theory of black swan events" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory).

    Basically, it's something that is so far off the radar that it really couldn't have been predicted/expected. However, it has such a big impact that people are looking for someone to blame so in looking with hindsight they piece together a rationalization.

    Basically, Having nothing in recorded history to lean on that something like this could really happen, no one had any idea that they should look for. Also, they wouldn't have known what it meant if they did pick up on some intel/data about it.

    So, who failed out of that list of agencies/groups? All of them and none of them. Is there anyone who could NOT have failed on something like this? Probably not.

    Just my $0.02 on the subject (not sure what that is in Euro...)
    Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

  5. #5
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    One thing to bring up is how sudden it started and how fast it spread. With how it was able to spread over seas so fast, could you really react quickly enough?

  6. #6
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzbros2002 View Post
    One thing to bring up is how sudden it started and how fast it spread. With how it was able to spread over seas so fast, could you really react quickly enough?
    I think this really depends on for how long you already had vital and valid information. Take 9/11 for examples putting all the dark conspiracy-theories aside: If the authorities had proper information soon enough they could have arrested the terrorists before they were able to get into the planes.
    Same applies for the zeeh-pocalypse. Imagine that the information about an upcoming zombie-apocalypse showed up early enough, then the public authorities were capable of a) prepare safety measures, b) maybe even create some kind of antidote, c) create certain safety zones, d) put the various military- and security-services on a high def-con etc.
    But if the signs showed up too late ... BANG => We're Alive ...
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  7. #7
    YetAnotherBloodyCheek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamKerrington View Post
    I think this really depends on for how long you already had vital and valid information. Take 9/11 for examples putting all the dark conspiracy-theories aside: If the authorities had proper information soon enough they could have arrested the terrorists before they were able to get into the planes.
    Same applies for the zeeh-pocalypse. Imagine that the information about an upcoming zombie-apocalypse showed up early enough, then the public authorities were capable of a) prepare safety measures, b) maybe even create some kind of antidote, c) create certain safety zones, d) put the various military- and security-services on a high def-con etc.
    But if the signs showed up too late ... BANG => We're Alive ...
    From what I know about the 9/11 investigations, I guess that the intelligence services had all the information they needed. However, it was one hell of a giant jingsaw puzzle. In the months that followed, it became clear that crucial information had not been evaluated due to slow / inefficient data flows. As a result, the United States Department of Homeland Security was created. Was it a good move? Well, that is arguable, but it installed a department which "has the big hat on." Such moves help to reduce the sensitivities of other services / departments to share resources. Hey, George Walker Bush legitimated it!

    And besides, I think it would not be that offbeat that an intelligence analyst informs his superior about a group who plans to release a neurotoxin or whatever at different spots around the Earth. Unless the analyst shouts "zombies everywhere will eat our brains, BRAINS!", there is a certain chance that the attention of the intelligence service will turn to the group of criminals. An intelligence service's job is also to think the unthinkable. I know it sounds too plain simple. But after the events of 9/11, I do not believe that anyone can afford to dismiss an attack scenario no matter how unlikely it may sound.

    Intelligence services themselves have the reputation to conduct rather irrational things: MK Ultra.
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  8. #8
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    About 9/11 ... Yes, sure. They had plenty of information, But did 'thy' also have the information about who would hijack a plane when with what target? Since I don't know the full story I would say: maybe, maybe not. If not, my comparison works; if they had all the information but had some "internal" problems, then my comparison won't work.

    All the best!
    Liam
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

  9. #9
    YetAnotherBloodyCheek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamKerrington View Post
    About 9/11 ... Yes, sure. They had plenty of information, But did 'thy' also have the information about who would hijack a plane when with what target? Since I don't know the full story I would say: maybe, maybe not. If not, my comparison works; if they had all the information but had some "internal" problems, then my comparison won't work.

    All the best!
    Liam
    A lot of mundane problems occurred: a lack of translators, analysts, misinterpreted information.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060902000.html
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  10. #10
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek View Post
    A lot of mundane problems occurred: a lack of translators, analysts, misinterpreted information.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060902000.html
    Ok. Then I should add something to my "theory": Not only is it important to have all the information, but also to have them in ways that the decision makers can actually draw the right conclusions in order to react accordingly and properly.
    Thanks for your research, bro.
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.


 
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