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  1. #1

    Global Situation at Large and the Implications of Weather.

    Hey all, I've been doing some thinking and brainstorming on the possible situations going on in the world and the multiple factors that effect these situations. Basically I'm going to take a look at specific global regions and military logistics along with the possible major implications of the winter weather that is happening during the time period (2009 was an extremely cold year for most of the country) I'll go off by listing to make the format easy on the eyes. Please give me input on these ideas and tell me where I am wrong so we can work on this together.

    These are the two main theories I am working with.
    -The virus is natural and originated from the major fault lines in the "Ring of Fire"
    -Weather implicating the current infected population

    Possible proof KC is using weather.
    So far there isn't much proof that KC is using the weather of 09 as a possible variable for the story, so this is the only definitive proof I remember of cold weather effecting the infected. Please add anything you can think of to prove this or discredit it.
    -Freezing conditions have a large impact on the infected, slowing them down and freezing them in place.
    -Boulder and most of the mid-west experienced well below average temperatures during the winter

    I am going to go region to region based on information I know and general assumptions I think would happen.

    United States


    West Coast
    Hit hard with ground zero outbreak hotspots, decimated within a few days. Fair to say g-zero states are gone with very few safe zones and no military presence (I am treating Ft. Irwin as the exception to the rule, even though it is now gone.). Adjacent states to g-zero will face the same fate. The West Coast doesn't get much freezing weather to begin with and they actually had a warmer than average winter in 09, so they have no benefit from the weather. Military wise I would say if the Third Fleet was still in operation, Ft. Irwin most likely would have had some contact with them, so the Third Fleet was most likely lost somehow during the initial outbreak, or went to Alaska to set some fortifications and wait it out.

    Mid-West
    Considering the landscape of the area and the general lack of population, I think the mid-west might have the most pockets of survivors in the United States. I base this off of a few things, population density, firearm ownership density and climate. Due to the lack of infection and greater firearm ownership, towns would most likely be able to gather the remaining survivors and band together and create "colony" type safe zones. If the LA colony was able to build and stabilize I think the mid-west stands a good chance of creating fortifications during the initial outbreak with the help of the national guard. Those states in the northern and colder climates get the added bonus of the 09 winter of having well below average temps, freezing infected that are unable to escape the elements. During the winter times I think safe zones would be able to gain a good number of force multipliers by gaining goods and weapons that are safer to reach now that the infected are slowed. States that don't get the constant below freezing conditions don't benefit from this and would be much harder to gain ground.

    Southern States
    The South doesn't have much going for it other than percentage of civilians owning guns. Even with the well below average temps the South had, temps didn't really get into the temps that would hinder infected mobility. With population getting more dense the infection would spread rather quick once a major population center was hit. Two of the main ways the South got infected would be Airliner via slow turners and infected ridding on the railway systems. Not much else to say that I can think of, there are probably a few colony like save zones per state if lucky, but I wouldn't count on them lasting for any longer than a year.

    North Eastern States
    This is where I think things are going to get interesting. As we know, the NE states were wiped out a week or so after day zero. Large population density in a smaller area, it's probably worse than the initial outbreak of the West.

    BUT WAIT!

    Two major factors are going to come into play here. The first is the Second Fleet and possibly Fourth Fleet (Although they may not have contact with each other, they may both be occupying separate spots on the East Coast.) With no chain of command, each fleet would have to decide their own actions. The Second Fleet would most likely pick a naval port/base to occupy when they returned to the mainland, sending a set of ships to set up shop and create a FoB, setting up for ground operations. Unlike the West Coast that has limited fire power and air support, this fleet can clear whole areas for ground forces to set up shop.

    After setting up a main base of operations and many other FoBs, search and rescue starts up and they start to find stranded "colony" type groups that are brought in to expand their civilian count, creating a mini Boulder situation. The survivors get the military up to date on what ever type of infected are on the East Coast, giving valuable intel on their habits and tactics. Unlike Ft. Irwin, Second Fleet has the fire power to throw back almost any attack the infected throw that them, along with the logistics to start doing small hits on high populated infected zones. Not only that, they are able to gather a vast amounts of chemical and biological weapons that are able to take out the infected in heavy fortified areas, while keeping those defenses up for men to move in and set up shop.

    The second factor is the weather. While it wasn't much colder in 09 for the North East, it is still constantly below freezing, which as we know has a good impact on the mobility of the infected. But along with the cold is the snow. Here is a fun fact, on the day Ft. Irwin was lost, the East Coast was getting hit by a huge blizzard. If the infected go into a type of hibernation mode when they freeze then a blizzard like this, and the other two that came after it the following months, will bury the infected in snow till thaw, giving a huge advantage to the Second Fleet. All and all, the North Eastern states are in far better shape than the West Coast.


    Canada
    Other than the possible hot spots on the Western Coast, Canada might stand a good chance of creating choke points in the northern areas of the country and hold off the infected. The infected would need to traverse large amount of bush to get from high pop zone to high pop zone.

    Mexico to Panama and Cuba
    Screwed. Hotspots all over west coast, high population density, poor military, hot climate, nothing good is going for Mexico. Cuba will most likely get infected via island hoping from Florida to Bahamas to Cuba. Cuba might make a good safe zone if a navy (Fourth Fleet?) can clear out zones with chemical weapons and kill a good portion of the infected.

    South America
    I feel like it would face a similar fate to Mexico. I don't know much about the military capability of the South American nations, but I feel like anything they down would be thrown down by the infected, as it spread from the west coast to east.

    Japan and Philippines
    Due to the hotspots these nations/islands suffered, they are most likely completely decimated with little survivor potential. I think the Seventh Fleet was most likely lost during the initial outbreaks of these regions.

    China, South Asia, India and Pakistan
    Once China got hit it was most likely all over for most of Asia. If this thing spread across the US in a few days, China would happen even faster. Similar situation with the US west coast, hit hard and fast with few pockets of survivors. The infection would spread along the coast, from east to south, hitting Vietnam, Thailand and then hitting India. Once it hit India it would explode once again like China.

    Due to the panic of India exploding with infection, the border tensions with Pakistan exploded resulting in limited nuclear conflict between the nations, before the infection took out Pakistan.

    Middle East
    With the vast majority of combat troops in Afghanistan, combined with the rough terrain of the country, it was quite easy to hold specific population points with the logistical help of the Fifth Fleet at their side. Once the military lost contact with their CoC, they decided to start moving the remaining population to extremely remote regions of the country that would be difficult to get to other than transportation. From there they set up bases like the Second Fleet did, instead they used areas with natural fortifications (similar to Boulder with the mountains to it's west.) These efforts were with combined operations with the remaining NATO forces, England, France mainly. (Continued in the England section)

    The rest of the region went into chaos. The Fifth Fleet lost contact with the remaining forces in Iraq, though some "colony" areas exist with the remaining forces. Syria, Saudi Arabia all went into civil unrest as they saw the infection coming their way. Thanks to the many years of US funding, Saudi had the capability to make Riyadh their major standing population center with a good amount of defense. Similar to Ft. Irwin, Riyadh has a large airport and moved its air force to this city.

    Israel didn't last long even with it's military capability. The country is far too condensed to make any stand and hold an area from the large amount of infected.

    Western Mainland Europe
    Like the East Coast, Western Europe had warning of this incoming infected, except they had about two weeks warning as they saw it spread through Asia and the Middle East. The European Union decided to combine their military forces and cut their losses and make large lines of defense around Germany, France and Spain, evacuating large amounts of civilians they could before cutting off the Line. Once the orders were given to stop the evacuations, tactical nukes were detonated to help halt the infected coming over from Russia and the Middle East. Over time the lines constricted into tighter groups, but so far they have been holding strong.

    Before the Line was made, England decided to succeed from EU, deciding they had a better chance by holding their own borders with all their forces. Though they did send aid in the form of nukes.

    The United States Sixth Fleet decided to aid the EU with their objective to hold the line.

    The winter in Europe was well below average, with large amounts of snow fall during the winter.

    England
    England created a blockade around the English Channel in case the mainland is loss, to stop the mass influx of refuges coming over and risking infection. In case the United Kingdom is hit by infection, nukes have been deployed in every major metropolitan area, in the style of Boulder, to give extra time for a mass evacuation to Ireland of the remaining cities. England is the only country that has been spared infection.

    Sometime in August, it was decided that they would evacuate the remaining population centers in Afghanistan via aircraft to England and move all remaining forces in the region to England and the Line. It was decided to split the Fifth Fleet to help aid holding the Line from Morocco to Spain, with the rest of the forces helping patrol England's waters.


    Here are my sources.

    Navy Fleet Locations http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%282009%29.png

    Weather for US in 09
    http://www.erh.noaa.gov/rnk/Newslett...e_summary.html

    US Population density
    http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-map.gif

    US Gun Ownership
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BmJ0sd4XzT.../StateGuns.jpg

  2. #2
    Osiris's Avatar
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    To get a better understanding of your theory I need to ask: Are they prototypical zombies (i.e., animated dead) or are they infected living (i.e., 28 Days Later rage "zombies")? It stands to reason that a brutal winter would affect any of the geeks, unlucky enough to be caught unprotected and exposed, much the same as it might your average human. That is to say death via exposure. A winter storm that would bury a geek until the thaw would effectively destroy the creature--if we're working under the assumption that they are a living being suffering from a viral infection.

    It raises an interesting question about muscle deterioration, and the effects of frost on tissue in either case, living or dead. Unless the corpse is reanimated via magicks, it is going to require muscle fibre to propel its limbs, not to mention the capacity to transmit electrical impulses from the brain. So that raises another question: how do sub-zero temperatures affect axons?
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  3. #3
    TheLostBigBoss's Avatar
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    It seems in We're Alive the zombies are infected and not dead. We simply don't know if exposure kills like any normal human or if they are able survive. We do know the normal infected are slowed by the freezing temps, but we don't know the extents of their injuries and possible mobility as the weather warms, as we have yet to get to that point in the timeline. My guess is the normal infected will sustain the same effects of being near frozen for long periods of time, frost bite and rotting limbs would seem to be the most common injuries they would have, we just don't know if they die like we would. The infected don't really mind pain and can survive injuries that would easily kill a human, so we should take that into account.

    What do I personally think? Normal infected will die via exposure, but we have a wild card, the Little Ones. We know they survive exposure and those infected with the "Little One" strain of the virus also survive exposure, so the question is are there similar type "Little Ones" in different parts of the world that will survive exposure? We don't know if the Little Ones are isolated special infected, or a near guarantee when the infected have high population with leadership.

  4. #4
    Osiris's Avatar
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    Having a higher pain threshold, and dying of exposure are two different animals. During the autopsy--feel free to verify the facts here as I'm only going from memory--there was no mention of abnormal insulation, only a tougher, hardened skin and denser bone. That would leave me to believe that the tissue is just as poorly protected from severe weather as our own. it's safe to say that the heart, lungs, liver, brain, and so on, will react the same as our own. The chances of death due to exposure increases exponentially with the seeming inability to reason--something these creatures--in the broadest sense--seem incapable of--which would affect self-preservation instincts. Basically, they're not going to dress for the weather.

    As for the wild card, we're not certain how they survived the elements on their trip to Boulder (if I'm not mistaken). It's possible that their organs are operating in such a way that they are generating far more heat than we would, and as such it takes longer for their body to lose that heat. How fast does their heart beat? It reminds me of the "zompires" from I Am Legend, which seemed to be winded, as if they'd just run flat out for ten miles. Possible that the increased cardiopulmonary activity might keep them going. However, the average infected seems to be little more than your average person with less sensitive pain receptors, increased adrenal gland activity, and reduced cognition.

    I'd be interested to hear from our resident nurse. Paging yarri.
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  5. #5
    Osiris's Avatar
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    P.S. I'm totally not a doctor, and could be 100% wrong about all of this. Just something I'd never considered until you brought it up.
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  6. #6
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Mh.
    From the reports of Robbins we know that Regulars seem to freeze, when they are exposed to cold weather conditions for some time.
    From the Little One we know: It is capable of sustaining prolonged winter-conditions - either by running around in the winter for two weeks before taking down the city of Boulder or - which would be a completely different and harder level of cold-resistance - by simply flying on the outside of a helicopter for about 1.000 miles over the Rocky Mountains during winter.

    This means: The anatomy and body-functions betwen Regulars and Little Ones differe to some degree at least.

    From the autopsy we know that the heart of the Little One is about 30% bigger then the human heart; also there are more arteries. This implies that the heart-activity, blood-pressure and thus the overall body-heat is remarkably higher then what you have in the average human body. According to the reports of Angel, Riley, and Datu zeehs don't seem to be heavily affected by pain, which means: the nervous cells of the zeehs (at least Regulars; from the Little Ones we know from listening that Little Ones react to damage dealt to them) for pain-recognition is heavily influenced by the zeeh-agent.

    Wild guess: Since it is obvious that the different zeeh-agents change the body-functions to some degree, it might be possible that the zeeh-agent simply incapacitates major parts of the nervous system - especially the ones regarding pain and probably cold- and heat-recognition.

    All the best!
    Liam
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.

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    I think there's an issue involving language here. Recognition of hot and cold does NOT affect susceptibility to either. Other than that, you seem to agree with what I've said. That said, I'm not sure that size really matters in the generation of body heat. It seems that body heat is proportional to size of the creature, not the organs within, the heart isn't going to generate more heat because it's larger or has more arteries. The heart is going to generate more heat if it's working harder and faster. It would really be interesting to have access to a live specimen to collect their vitals.

    Dear Kc,

    Please give us access to a live specimen in season four, so that we may gain a better understanding of the infected people's physiology.

    Sincerely,
    This thread.
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  8. #8
    Cabbage Patch's Avatar
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    I've always thought that the Swiss would stand a good chance in a zombie apocalypse, if they could survive the initial onslaught. Their borders are mostly mountains, with few traversable passes, and large, deep lakes, and they're all heavily fortified. A large portion of the population is in the military reserves and they keep their weapons at home with them. And the government has built up enormous stockpiles of everything from food and medicine to strategic materials. I could see them doing quite well, until their oil stockpiles start running low and the pressure from refugees forces them to make some hard choices.

    Under this scenario things could go one of two ways for the Swiss. They could withdraw into their territory and close the borders. Or they could provide significant military assistance to the efforts to control the borders of the EU.

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    Iceland will survive. Bjork will use her ultrasonics to make the zeds explode.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    That said, I'm not sure that size really matters in the generation of body heat. It seems that body heat is proportional to size of the creature, not the organs within, the heart isn't going to generate more heat because it's larger or has more arteries. The heart is going to generate more heat if it's working harder and faster.
    Size does not necessarily matter in terms of producing heat. But if a bigger heart means more activity, it will be like with any muscle-structure: When there is more activity, the muscle also produces more heat, which is why people start sweating when they do sports. Therefore I implied what you said about the heart: bigger heart > more activity > maybe more heat.
    But since I don'T know for sure, I second your request about getting a live specimen ...

    All the best!
    Liam
    Zombie Story:
    - raises the acceptance of killing humans in huge numbers,
    - reveals everything bad and and even worse about human behaviour and psychology,
    - is fun.


 
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