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  1. #21
    nikvoodoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongoriaN View Post
    To nikvoodoo: I listened to it and didn't hear it. what time does it come up?
    Chapter 20-3: 11:55-12:15
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  2. #22
    LongoriaN's Avatar
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    To nikvoodoo: Sure she is sick but there is no mention of being pregnant. I think she is throwing up from what's going on at that moment, not morning sickness. Who knows what the answer is, I guess we'll find out soon. Anyone want to make bets on Hannah being alive?


    longoria

  3. #23
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Hi.

    We only have indication of Hannah being killed. No more, no less then that.
    And we only know that Kalani suicided himself to protect the Tower-folks, because he concluded the same as most of us do here.
    Actually I don't consider Hannah alive anymore, because I draw pretty much the same conclusion. But I may be wrong. I rate the chances like 95% to 5%, though, that Hannah is dead. So I bet against Hannah being alive ...

    All the best!
    Liam
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  4. #24
    yarri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongoriaN View Post
    To nikvoodoo: Sure she is sick but there is no mention of being pregnant. I think she is throwing up from what's going on at that moment, not morning sickness. Who knows what the answer is, I guess we'll find out soon. Anyone want to make bets on Hannah being alive?


    longoria
    she was tossed out of the tower for falling asleep on watch. She found her self not understanding why she did it. yes sure she'd been watching saul and was tired but that type of excessive sleepiness was/is unusual and unique to all but a woman who's pregnant. (speaking from experience its a rather amazing sensation to feel your body shut down on you and then wake up oh.. 8 hours later with what ever you were doing still in your hand. Last time I was pregnant I'd fall asleep in a chair with my knitting in my hands.) That sort of exaustion happens in month 0 to 3..

    Kc has already pointed out she was pregnant during that time and the vomiting was not just stress it was her being pregnant.. as the child is Sauls (which he's already confirmed) She had to be pregnant before leaving the tower as she's not had "contact" with Saul to catch being pregnant since.

    Now I love Saul he's my favorite but even I must admit Saul's sperm isn't superhuman and didn't impregnate her during her captivity by the maulers via osmosis or teleportation. It happened during her time in the tower most likely just before or just after the fire
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  5. #25
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    To yarri and all readers: I guess those are strong points for the pregnant theory. But the question remains the same, Who do you think the second prisoner is? I just don't buy, that she was showing that early. She's pregnant during the gate scene, some time before (the timeline has nothing on when lizzy visited the doctor) Lizzy had a check up with the doctor. During that visit it sound pretty early in her pregnancy. The doctor determined sex and did an ultrasound, he offered no advice on how to give birth; indicating a non-imitate birth. You know you got to go over things like breathing ect. a month before birth.


    If I understand you guys correctly, you think in Chapter 24 lizzy looked pregnant? You're telling me on July 30th, no one who knew lizzy, could tell she was pregnant; three days later scratch (a person who has only seen her twice "at the gas station, and throwing things from the roof") can tell Lizzy is pregnant. and in Dec she is still pregnant. Most people don't show in the first 3 months, usually as the first trimester is ending do you see a baby bump. Which would put conception at late June, and a birth of late March. Lizzy is fit and very lean, it is also possible with strong ab muscles she might not show into the second trimester. All plausible.


    But I really think it's more realistic and practical to think, that the Mallers played the same trick Michael did on them. Each side brought a scouting party with a mock prisoner, and retained all their bargaining chips. Potentially even eliminating The Towers finest. The mallers have very little to lose; Micheal is forced to risk alot. Its a prisoners delimea, in the academic sense (Polly sci and Psych Majors should know).


    So I open this up to everyone. Who do you think is the second prisoner?


    Longoria
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  6. #26
    LiamKerrington's Avatar
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    Hi there.

    Short:
    - Pregnancy may be recognized even by kind of unknown persons under certain circumstances.
    - Hannah is the second prisoner.

    If you wish to learn, why I think so, take a look at the P.S.:

    All the best!
    Liam

    the P.S.:

    Although it is somewhat ardous something more about pregnancy: Haircutter have an eye for women being pregnant, because the hair changes. My personal haircutter told me that she asked some of her customers, if they already knew, if the child is a boy or a girl, and her customers returned the question, that they had no idea about what the haircutter is asking, because they (the customers) simply were not aware about being pregnant themselves yet. The point here is: The first signs of pregnancy may be recognized only if you have certain knowledge, else the signs won't be recognized at all or totally misunderstood; and it is quite common that most people don't recognize it until being told about it.
    Referring to Lizzy the signs are tiredness/ fatigue and throwing up. That is why it is very likely that most to all main characters in the Tower simply did not see this coming. Also they were used to having Lizzy around them. Therefore slight changes were not recognized like you recognize something changing rapidly.
    So yes: I transfer this particular real-life knowledge into the WA-universe and only guess that this might be an applicable explenation.

    And as for Scratch: Well, Scratch has a traumatized background around her first pregnancy. The awareness about signs of pregnancy supposedly was and still is a lot stronger for her, and her experiences with her own rape-based pregnancy were a lot more intense giving her a different sensitivity about pregnancy. Therefore I have no trouble about her recognizing Lizzy's situation almost immediately, because the signs spring to her eyes in an instant. Also keep in mind that she met Lizzy twice - at the tanker-theft long before Lizzy was engaged with Saul, and when capturing Lizzy after she was engaged with Saul; between both incidents some time passed and things changed a lot. So slight changes in Lizzy's demeanor, behaviour and especially her looks based on her pregnancy maybe are a lot more obvious for Scratch compared with having a person around you all the time ...
    And yes: This is just the result of interpretation based upon run-away-psychology.

    But both explanations help me understanding and accepting the situation as it is right now. If you ask for the literally wording within the WA-show, I feel inclined to tell you that I cannot support my thoughts based on lines of the WA story. So there is no log-/diary-entry or mono-/dialogue telling us: The Tower-folk did not recognize it, because they were ust stupid, while Scratch has x-ray- and ultra-sound-eyes seeing the fetus grow in Lizzy's belly ...

    About the second prisoner: When Scratch anounced two prisoners, I considered Hannah being the second one - after the Kalani backstory; before that it left me just curious and riddled, why Scratch said this. And since Scratch knew that Kalani was with The Tower-folks, she indirectly addressed the second prisoner at Kalani in order to press the issues and make especially him understand what was at stakes wishing that he again would betray people to save his daughter ...
    But since The Mallers captured many different people we don't know, if it could be any random one else. Scratch is a mastress (master) of deceit and spinning words in her favor, while she denies dignity for almost any human being (except maybe for John, Henry and herself) by torturing and hostaging people; and it is not even unlikely that she only meant to put The Tower-folks under more stress by making them wonder: 'Who was the second prisoner? Did we loose someone else?' But considering this and comparing it with her pressurizing medium against Kalani I consider the Hannah-theory as being the more likely one.
    Last edited by LiamKerrington; Sep 7th, 2012 at 01:38 AM. Reason: minor corrections, clarification
    Zombie Story:
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    - is fun.

  7. #27
    nikvoodoo's Avatar
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    No we are not saying she looked pregnant. All we've been saying to you is scratch figured it out, she told the tower but no one could put two and two together.

    Remember, she went from tar can rape you until his balls fall off, to recognizing she was sick, to removing her handcuffs and setting bricks as her personal body guard. Only one circumstance changed: lizzy being sick.
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  8. #28
    yarri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongoriaN View Post
    To yarri and all readers: I guess those are strong points for the pregnant theory. But the question remains the same, Who do you think the second prisoner is? I just don't buy, that she was showing that early. She's pregnant during the gate scene, some time before (the timeline has nothing on when lizzy visited the doctor) Lizzy had a check up with the doctor. During that visit it sound pretty early in her pregnancy. The doctor determined sex and did an ultrasound, he offered no advice on how to give birth; indicating a non-imitate birth. You know you got to go over things like breathing ect. a month before birth.
    The doctor that did the ultrasound was a dentist. So the reason why she didn't offer any advice on child birth is cause well dentists deal with teeth not babies. She, the dentist had figured out how to use the ultrasound machine cause if she hadn't Scratch with her amazing people persuasion skills would have shot her in the head....


    Quote Originally Posted by LongoriaN View Post
    If I understand you guys correctly, you think in Chapter 24 lizzy looked pregnant? You're telling me on July 30th, no one who knew lizzy, could tell she was pregnant; three days later scratch (a person who has only seen her twice "at the gas station, and throwing things from the roof") can tell Lizzy is pregnant. and in Dec she is still pregnant. Most people don't show in the first 3 months, usually as the first trimester is ending do you see a baby bump. Which would put conception at late June, and a birth of late March. Lizzy is fit and very lean, it is also possible with strong ab muscles she might not show into the second trimester. All plausible.
    No she didn't look pregnant none of us said that what we did say is she was vomiting and was exhausted and anyone with any experience I.E. had a child before or was the partner of a person who was having a child could deduce with logic that Lizzy was/ could be carrying a baby. (there is also multiple suggestions that she was having sexual contact with Saul that sort of clued me in as well as the vomiting)




    Quote Originally Posted by LongoriaN View Post
    So I open this up to everyone. Who do you think is the second prisoner?
    Not Hannah, I feel in Scratch's seriously twisted mental facilities she had visions of holding a gun to Lizzie's belly telling them she'd shoot the baby to get Pegs to come out. Cause Pegs would have walked out of the Tower to save Lizzie's child cause that's how Pegs would roll. She's sort of human like that and decent.
    Fruity Oaty Bar Jingle: Fruity Oaty Bars! Make a man out of a mouse! Fruity Oaty Bars! Make you bust out of your blouse! Eat them all the time! Let them blow your mind... ohh! Fruity Oaty Bars!
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  9. #29
    Robzombie's Avatar
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    Scratch immediately recognized that she could be pregnant, even many of us on the forum at the time had seen that as a possibility. That idea was reinforced when Scratch mentions that she has two prisoners. Without directly saying so which is not realistic most of this stuff has been "confirmed". Lizzie has Sauls baby, Scratch recognized that, Hannah is dead, and so on...debate is good and can be interesting but this thread should be closed IMHO.
    She was the prime motivating factor for what Kalani did and thats it. I doubt very much that we're going to get any further confirmation whatsoever. We arleady got: Kalani "that was my Hannah"; Duria: "you even killed some teenage girl", what more do you need?
    Last edited by Robzombie; Sep 7th, 2012 at 07:45 AM.

  10. #30
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    Scratch recognizes that Lizzy is pregnant in the furniture store when she has been vomiting. We know this from the interview with Jenna Mccrombie in which she says that KC whispered something into her ear so that she could deliver a particular line the way he wanted. He whispers ,"Scratch was pregnant once." The line in question is, "You're sick, aren't you?" Jenna Mccrombie confirms this. When Scratch says this line her tone and demeanor are softer than her typical ape-shit attitude.
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