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  1. #21
    mythicgr66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyehardjr View Post
    Umm, hello... did you actually listen to episode? Angel jumped through a window. That only happens in movies, and still the protagonist gets hurt. You try jumping through a window, running from, let's see, a Behemoth, almost getting squished underneath a building, and not go back to bed after being woken up from a fight, which you didn't even want to be part of.
    Angel going back to bed doesn't mean that he has poor leadership qualities... it just means that he is tired, and wants to rest.

    As for Bert, sure, he didn't have any more movie quotes to throw back at him, but he even admitted that he isn't used to leading civilians. He was used to leading soldiers, people who trusted him, not civilians who are mostly lost in this world without protection. Bert does have the ability to be a leader, in some ways that it.
    Wait a few Chapters, and I'm sure he will help everyone with some major plan of some sort.
    I mean in an emotional way as angel is not brave enough to take charge, when you listen to him you dont really belive in him, jumping though a a window is nothing to leading a group of people who will blame you for any little mistake you make, Michael was a great leader until he snaped and now he's back (YES!!), Burt ok he's has lead marines (Ooh-rah) people who are trained to take orders, the way to describe Burt is as a Gunny (he has people to order but dosent make the big choices)

  2. #22
    Ra1th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythicgr66 View Post
    I mean in an emotional way as angel is not brave enough to take charge, when you listen to him you dont really belive in him, jumping though a a window is nothing to leading a group of people who will blame you for any little mistake you make, Michael was a great leader until he snaped and now he's back (YES!!), Burt ok he's has lead marines (Ooh-rah) people who are trained to take orders, the way to describe Burt is as a Gunny (he has people to order but dosent make the big choices)
    excuse me?

    (you win voodoo, i stayed retired for a total of one and a half days, screw that, i'm back )

    he just jumped through a damn window and killed a damn behemoth, i'm sorry i dont understand how that isnt "brave enough" or "believable". How does this even affect leadership?

    I dont even understand your argument, Burt was a gunny sgt so he gained leadership abilities? well then, Angel was a 2nd ltnt he was specifically TRAINED to lead, his failures came in not knowing what to do in the field, and lemme tell ya, i dont see precious michael or burt taking down behemoths
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  3. #23
    mythicgr66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra1th View Post
    excuse me?

    (you win voodoo, i stayed retired for a total of one and a half days, screw that, i'm back )

    he just jumped through a damn window and killed a damn behemoth, i'm sorry i dont understand how that isnt "brave enough" or "believable". How does this even affect leadership?

    I dont even understand your argument, Burt was a gunny sgt so he gained leadership abilities? well then, Angel was a 2nd ltnt he was specifically TRAINED to lead, his failures came in not knowing what to do in the field, and lemme tell ya, i dont see precious michael or burt taking down behemoths
    michael or burt would of killed the behemoth while it was knocked out on the floor

  4. #24
    Ra1th's Avatar
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    you're kidding me...

    i dont think you understood the scene, he went through a WINDOW, he's bleeding out... he could barely walk anymore because glass shards went through his leg, hence the line " go on without me, theres no way i'll be able to run on this leg" (and then skittles saves the day)

    there is no evidence backing up anything you're saying right now, this whole thread is based around evidence and context clues, please make sure that you back up your arguments with evidence otherwise there is no grounds for your statement
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  5. #25
    HaveCrowBarWillTravel's Avatar
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    *sitting on the sofa snickering*
    This is classic. I'm staying out of this, but enjoying it. That was a valiant effort to stay out the line of fire Ra1th. I salute you!

    Hey KC, is Angel a Butter Bar?

  6. #26
    mythicgr66's Avatar
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    but you only bring up that one moment, what about when burt was locked in the shop and he told saul to leave him or when lizzy arived at the tower, just because you have been trained to lead dosen't mean you can.

    if angle were in charge Burt and lizzy would be dead, the mallers would of won due to the lack ammo (which burt told them about) or taken over as angel let them in the front door, listen two chapter 2, ok in time angel will be a great leader, but currently he's not he didn't step in to help lizzy, so what if he is injured, micheal stood up to help saul and he had a badly broken arm.

    he's proved loyaty & sacrafice with Kalani, but he still need to prove he can command, when the mallers arived at the tower he tried to reason, even after saul told what he saw what them do, whould he of knocked out the guy who tazered Pegs, most likely no and ended up being tazed him self, if he's in my squad watching my back angel is one to count on but not to lead he's still not experienced enough and wont stand up to people he always tries to work things out.

    wait this is going knowhere, lets make this simple right now in this moment in time would you have angel as your leader?

    me personaly no, he is still not ready, if you asked me this in the first few chapters i would never follow Angel but in a bitmore time he could lead.
    Last edited by mythicgr66; Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #27
    Dyehardjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythicgr66 View Post
    ok in time angel will be a great leader, .
    Then just say that. Right now, I don't think he can lead either. I believe he himself doesn't believe he could lead the Tower. But in the future, I'm sure he could.
    LIVE FREE, OR DYEHARDjr

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  8. #28
    Ra1th's Avatar
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    Much better

    Quote Originally Posted by mythicgr66 View Post
    but you only bring up that one moment, what about when burt was locked in the shop and he told saul to leave him or when lizzy arived at the tower, just because you have been trained to lead dosen't mean you can. .
    No sir, you mistake intelligence with cowardice. The right decision in both of those situations was to LEAVE THEM. Burt was a dying old man, the chances were one in a million that he turns out to be this gun toting clint eastwood badass. More than likely he would have died on them and it would have been a waste of precious supplies. It was a miracle things turned out the way it did

    As with lizzy, the right decision should have been to leave her. By shooting the lock and opening the door for her, Michael risked the lives of every person in that tower.

    From a leadership standpoint, Angel made the right decision both times, but he was overridden by “hail mary” logic, basically let’s make an insane decision and follow through and hope for the best, if it succeeds, we’re heroes, if it fails we’re all dead. Since this is fiction, they pull off some insane things, and avoid serious repercussions for very stupid decisions, but the decisions Angel made were not so much cowardice as they were the best possible choices. And considering it from that perspective, Michael and Burt both have yet to realize this, and this could lead to their downfall. The hail mary only has to fail once to ruin everything .

    Quote Originally Posted by mythicgr66 View Post
    if angle were in charge Burt and lizzy would be dead, the mallers would of won due to the lack ammo (which burt told them about) or taken over as angel let the min the front door, listen two chapter 2, ok in time angel will be a great leader, but currently he's not he didn't step in to help lizzy, so what if he is injured, micheal stood up to help saul and he had a badly broken arm. .
    Yes, if Angel was in charge Burt, and Lizzy would be dead. Do you know why they are alive? Because Michael used a hail mary, and things worked out, when the hail mary works, everyone is happy, and you’re a hero, but do you know what happens if a hail mary fails? You lose EVERYTHING, had lizzy been saved, but Michael not reached the door in time, EVRYONE in the tower would have died. Since this is a story it worked out, had burt turned out to be any normal old man, which all things considering what are the odds burt is the marksman that he is, and that he has a stockpile of illegal weapons. Its very low, burt would have been a bad addition to the team, he would be an old guy who’s physically feeble and cant do much to help out the team, but the hail mary worked, and he turned out to be a gun toting badass.

    As for the Mallers, we do not have enough information to state, that the Mallers would have won without the weapons and ammo from burt’s armory. There are an infinite number of possibilities that could have happened had they not gotten all the ammo from burt, they would have made that a priority and they would have found it somewhere else. This is not a valid argument because it is not supported by any evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by mythicgr66 View Post
    he's proved loyaty & sacrafice with Kalani, but he still need to prove he can command, when the mallers arived at the tower he tried to reason, even after saul told what he saw what them do, whould he of knocked out the guy who tazered Pegs, most likely no and ended up being tazed him self, if he's in my squad watching my back angle is one to count on but not to lead he's still not experienced enough and wont stand up to people he always tries to work things out. .
    Once again not a valid argument because there is no evidence backing any of this up, this is just what you hypothesize might happen in this situation, I could hypothesize differently but it doesn’t matter because there is no evidence so once again irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by mythicgr66 View Post
    wait this is going knowhere, lets make this simple right now in this moment in time would you have angel as your leader?

    me personaly no, he is still not ready, if you asked me this in the first few chapters i would never follow Angel but in a bitmore time Angle could lead.
    This is not the conclusion you gave me before. Two posts ago you were telling me that angel was a failure for being “not believable” and “not brave enough” to be a leader.
    But that being said this is a much better conclusion to arrive at, angel is a character with unlimited growth potential, and he’s been growing at a very fast pace so far, chances are he’ll continue to grow at a fast pace. Do I want angel as the leader right now? No not right now, because right now, the situation is dire, and Michael has more experience leading the tower in such situations, Angel needs to be eased into leadership, right now, the tower is on the brink of war, don’t change horses when crossing a stream.
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  9. #29
    Ra1th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel View Post
    *sitting on the sofa snickering*
    This is classic. I'm staying out of this, but enjoying it. That was a valiant effort to stay out the line of fire Ra1th. I salute you!

    Hey KC, is Angel a Butter Bar?
    ehhhh i tried man i tried, but shit somethings just never change hahaa,

    new more reasonable goal: never get super worked up about it
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  10. #30
    mythicgr66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyehardjr View Post
    Then just say that. Right now, I don't think he can lead either. I believe he himself doesn't believe he could lead the Tower. But in the future, I'm sure he could.
    but that is what i said (ok i admit not in those words), all i said was Angel is not ready untill something in him changes, i might of needed to have been clearer on that but Ra1th took offence to what i said, i didnt say no or never, just not currently.

    hell he might prove him self in the next chapter and completely prove me worng, when they attack the mallers new base (most likelly were michael, pegs, kelly, hope, victor and Dr.??? (dam whats her name sauls mother) escaped from) cant wait to see Angel pull a Rambo lol


 
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