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nikvoodoo
Nov 25th, 2013, 05:02 AM
Happy Monday!

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 05:15 AM
Let's rock! Just a few more hours ... Then hell'll break loose ...

Footbutt
Nov 25th, 2013, 06:05 AM
yes! i love Mondays for this sole reason.

quick prediction:
#7 catches up to Tanya and Victor but doesn't attempt to kill Tanya, but maybe Victor. Tanya is (this time) successfully captured and Victor calls it in and starts pursuing. Saul comes out from Dunbar and him and Victor join forces once again to rescue his mama.

Merlin1274
Nov 25th, 2013, 06:25 AM
YEAH!!!! HAPPY WA Monday..

I think we will be left wondering about Tanya and Victor. It will be about the Courthouse. But I have been know to be wrong a time or two.

scbubba
Nov 25th, 2013, 06:27 AM
WA-day!!!! :yay:

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 06:41 AM
Victor will twist his ankle, and Tanya will start talking to 7, who will then leave them. Zkittles (he has turned during the last few months) shows up and helps them get back to Dunbar.
...Or not...
But we'll see. :D

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 25th, 2013, 06:44 AM
This is my last episode ... Before turning 35. I am an old fart. Each morning, I tend to look like Palpatine more and more

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 06:46 AM
I'm betting we'll see a similar kind of structure to last time, back and forth between courthouse/Inglewood. At least I hope so, because I want more of both of those, now dammit! :D

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 07:45 AM
My bet is that there will be some Burt and Riley action this episode, and we'll have to wait and see what happens to Tanya and Victor.

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 07:54 AM
Excitement Meter Rising!!!! :excited: :omgomg: :excited:

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 07:57 AM
Is it time yet? Is it? Is it time yet? When is it time? Is it time now? What about now? How about now? Is it here yet?

tonyhind86
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:07 AM
Monday: A lot of excitement for the episode, a week of guessing and speculation to make the rest of the week pass by faster!

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:47 AM
I know there are a few of us in Newcastle - I feel like we should start a little support group to get us through the long waits til Monday tea time.

In other news...is it time yet????

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:50 AM
Is it time yet?!!!

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:51 AM
Is it time yet?!!!

Not yet ...

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:52 AM
I am an old fart. Each morning, I tend to look like Palpatine more and more
Very true.

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:56 AM
I know there are a few of us in Newcastle - I feel like we should start a little support group to get us through the long waits til Monday tea time.

In other news...is it time yet????

"We're Alive Addicts Anonymous"

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Quick prediction:
1.) #7 hunts Tanya and Victor; but because Tanya is kind of a zomb herself and she transpires certain hormons, the Little One will recognize her as a superior and let go of her; and it won't attack Victor, 'cause he accepts him as Tanya's prey.
2.) At the Court House Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson show up to perform a Thriller-Jailhouse-Rock-crossover ... Meanwhile Kelly and Soldiers will find the documents they hoped to find.
3.) Finally: Kind R2Datu the Ressourceful will finish the device of awesome which is displayed on the official episode-picture ...

Best wishes!
Liam

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:06 AM
So, chapter 40 episode 2 ... That could be spelled episode 40-2 or 42 ... So, does Kc have the Nerd-factor to use this in order to inform us about the ...
... well, not the right and proper answers for the riddles he is created with his show. But maybe - and that's more important -, as a true believer of Nerdism he could offer us ...

dundunDUNNNN!

.... the One question which is most important about this Story of Survival ... Does anyone here have an idea what this question might be?

Best wishes!
Liam

tonyhind86
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:08 AM
.... the One question which is most important about this Story of Survival ... Does anyone here have an idea what this question might be?



zombie:) When is Pegs going to grow my damn cucumbers?

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:31 AM
ITISOUT!!! *Downloads immediately*

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:35 AM
Yaaaaaaayyyy!!!!!!

tonyhind86
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:35 AM
On it like a car bonnet!

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:40 AM
Thunder!

UndeadSweeper
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:48 AM
Airtank! Called it!!!!!! :D

Does everyone still hate CJ?

tonyhind86
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:51 AM
Does everyone still hate CJ?

Yep, pretty much

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:54 AM
My Man Victor!!! Saving the day!!!

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:58 AM
So....

Ink was maybe bitten on the arm... Similar to how Tanya was...

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:58 AM
Ok ... Monsters share one important thing with Cows. Cows are Mammals ... So, there you are. M in Mammals is the same as M in Monsters. So there you have it - the secret meaning of this chapter's title ...

Just kidding.

#40-2 is hell of a shot.

I am not certain about the #7-encounter. Was it downed, and did another Little One show up? Or was Victor right about "lucky number 7"?

Now, we have quite solid confirmation that Saul and Tanya share the same "feat" ...

And as for the creation of our beloved Zombie-Lord ... Looks like he was hurt by three regulars. We have no idea, why they stopped attacking him ... Did they attack him, because they wanted to find him and make him their leader? Or did the zombie-agent turn him quickly enough that the regulars started to loose interest in him, because they did not consider him as food anymore. Most strinking, though, is the small fact that Ink hat his alpha-position right from the start ... What is this? Kind of a hormone thing? Or what?

One thing I am certain: This episode will let us explode on theories as. Of. NOW.

Best wishes!
Liam

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:58 AM
and the haze... oh my.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:59 AM
Also it seem the transcriber of these journals maybe adding or subtracting some words. hehe

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:00 AM
Some answers! And more questions! So now we know that Ink was turned; or at least we know that he was bitten. So he's definitely not Patient Zero. So who was? And how did the normal biters know to stop attacking? Did he acquire alpha status as soon as he turned? Or did they just lose interest because he wasn't human any more?

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:00 AM
and the haze... oh my.

Yeah. It seems to have a single source. Below Inglewood. It does not seem to have anything to do with the San Andreas crack in LA, 'cause that what Tanya (and Victor?) realized was such a small and local earthquake. So what causes it, and what's the haze for?
And very important:
The haze does not stop Little Ones ... !

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:00 AM
Also it seem the transcriber of these journals maybe adding or subtracting some words. hehe

I loved that little touch! The typing sounds even seemed angrier at that point ^_^

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:01 AM
Is there a Puck Appreciation Club in existence? Where do I sign up? He is fast becoming my favourite character.

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:01 AM
Also it seem the transcriber of these journals maybe adding or subtracting some words. hehe

:cool:

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:02 AM
Yeah. It seems to have a single source. Below Inglewood. It does not seem to have anything to do with the San Andreas crack in LA, 'cause that what Tanya (and Victor?) realized was such a small and local earthquake. So what causes it, and what's the haze for?
And very important:
The haze does not stop Little Ones ... !

Indeed! Was it truly an earthquake? Or was it some subterranean event that mimics an earthquake? An underground facility of some kind? Or a natural gas pocket that's slowly shifting?

ZombieWildfire
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:02 AM
Yeah. It seems to have a single source. Below Inglewood. It does not seem to have anything to do with the San Andreas crack in LA, 'cause that what Tanya (and Victor?) realized was such a small and local earthquake. So what causes it, and what's the haze for?
And very important:
The haze does not stop Little Ones ... !

I even wonder if someone can control it?

tonyhind86
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:04 AM
Indeed! Was it truly an earthquake? Or was it some subterranean event that mimics an earthquake? An underground facility of some kind? Or a natural gas pocket that's slowly shifting?

Fracking?

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:06 AM
Fracking?

Ooooh! I knew that was shady! :tinfoil:

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:07 AM
So basically from what I am gathering.....

#1) Ink knew something was going to happen and was prepared for it.

#2) Ink knew that he could be bitten and would be able to control the others.

#3) Puck had a good idea.

#4) Pegs needs to keep her eye on Michael and Kelly.

Footbutt
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:11 AM
i personally was never in the "i hate CJ club"; i think her character is very interesting and has gone through so much as a leader. this little look into her 'resignment' was awesome. she doesn't know what to do, and i think that's the most frustrating thing for her.

tonyhind86
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:11 AM
So basically from what I am gathering.....

#1) Ink knew something was going to happen and was prepared for it.

#2) Ink knew that he could be bitten and would be able to control the others.

#3) Puck had a good idea.

#4) Pegs needs to keep her eye on Michael and Kelly.

#5) Mr MooMoo and his milk are going to be more popular than CJ...

UndeadSweeper
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:16 AM
So basically from what I am gathering.....

#1) Ink knew something was going to happen and was prepared for it.

#2) Ink knew that he could be bitten and would be able to control the others.

#3) Puck had a good idea.

#4) Pegs needs to keep her eye on Michael and Kelly.


I'm think he got scratched by them and they knew he was turning that why the attacked stopped. I'm still in the camp that he wasn't the cause nor knew this was happening. He just an result. Even the bitter were surprised by him step out and "right mind".

skankyfish
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:19 AM
So basically from what I am gathering.....

#1) Ink knew something was going to happen and was prepared for it.

#2) Ink knew that he could be bitten and would be able to control the others.

#3) Puck had a good idea.

#4) Pegs needs to keep her eye on Michael and Kelly.

Can we assume numbers 1 and 2? I don't know if we can - we know those things *did* happen, but there's no evidence that Ink *knew* that they would...

kahliimah
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:22 AM
Could anyone give me a heads up on how many hours approx until the podcast usually drops? I'm in Australia and it's 4:19am and I'm pretty sure we just recently went into daylight saving so I have no clue...

Also thought it was funny that I commonly get emails from the forums for not logging in and it says something along the lines of "season 3 has already started..."
I'm like yes...yes it has. haha!

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:22 AM
i personally was never in the "i hate CJ club"; i think her character is very interesting and has gone through so much as a leader. this little look into her 'resignment' was awesome. she doesn't know what to do, and i think that's the most frustrating thing for her.

I am in deep trouble about her, because I don't like the way she treats people. But allowing us some insight into her emotional and rational world of thinking makes me change my mind to a certain degree. I cannot blame her for being "tough" all day long; I guess she had to run through shit in her earlier life enough that she has hardened her shell a lot. But I would love to see her change - not only in the face of very few and special characters, but all in all in general ... But I think this won't happen - especially not with the conflict between her and Michael peaking ...

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:23 AM
Could anyone give me a heads up on how many hours approx until the podcast usually drops? I'm in Australia and it's 4:19am and I'm pretty sure we just recently went into daylight saving so I have no clue...

Also thought it was funny that I commonly get emails from the forums for not logging in and it says something along the lines of "season 3 has already started..."
I'm like yes...yes it has. haha!

The moment I write this posting is about 50 minutes after the latest eisode was released. I hope that helps. I live in Krautland (Germany), and I have the same trouble. Over here it is about half past five p.m., when a new chapter is up.

Merlin1274
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:25 AM
Haha I was right.. Air tank but not jaws style.. Just took him down the road long enough for them to get away.

Also I was right about that being Datu the Resourceful on the Windmill trying to make it a water pump..

CJ is realizing its too much for her to handle. She will need help.. I hope she does not realize it before its too late.

I loved Michael's little poke at Kelly in the Journal.

But the two biggest points.. Tanya and Saul can breath the haze along with the little ones and Ink was turned. But still leaves questions on why the normal's acted the way they did..

Now I can go read what everyone else wrote.. Did not want to read them before I shared my opinions..

UndeadSweeper
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:26 AM
I am in deep trouble about her, because I don't like the way she treats people. But allowing us some insight into her emotional and rational world of thinking makes me change my mind to a certain degree. I cannot blame her for being "tough" all day long; I guess she had to run through shit in her earlier life enough that she has hardened her shell a lot. But I would love to see her change - not only in the face of very few and special characters, but all in all in general ... But I think this won't happen - especially not with the conflict between her and Michael peaking ...

Would you blame her? Michael keep blow her off every-time. I know he on a important mission but she need to balance the need the of colony and need for intel. When Michael was blow off Peg we thought that wasn't cool, right?

kahliimah
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:26 AM
The moment I write this posting is about 50 minutes after the latest eisode was released. I hope that helps. I live in Krautland (Germany), and I have the same trouble. Over here it is about half past five p.m., when a new chapter is up.

Thanks!! Will remember that for next time :)

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:29 AM
So basically from what I am gathering.....

#1) Ink knew something was going to happen and was prepared for it.

#2) Ink knew that he could be bitten and would be able to control the others.

#3) Puck had a good idea.

#4) Pegs needs to keep her eye on Michael and Kelly.

#3 and #4 - yes, both.
#1 and #2 - I am not so certain. We only know for sure: he was in the van, the van got attacked. How ever or in what way ever Ink seems to be wounded on his arm. Then, pretty quickly them zeehs stopped smashing the van and trying to get to Ink. And a little/ lot later, when dust had settled, Ink left the van and was in full control over the first two zombs - w/o doing anything.
So - was all of this staged? Or coincident?
Tanya was bitten, and the mark still shows up. She has not turned (yet). But she does not seem to be affected by the haze close to Ground Zero - like the Little One. In terms of zombies Tanya would be a Smart One - like Ink and other Smart Ones. So my bet is: Ink could walk in the haze as well. But Tanya was attacked by the Little One #7. So, what makes her different from Ink that zombs chase her? I guess her hormone-cocktail, 'cause the human part still rules her body ... I guess this changes as soon as she becomes a zomb - finally ...

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:30 AM
Would you blame her? Michael keep blow her off every-time. I know he on a important mission but she need to balance the need the of colony and need for intel. When Michael was blow off Peg we thought that wasn't cool, right?

I cannot blame her, I would not even want to blame her. And Michael was a dick about Pegs ...

Tielurrdee
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:33 AM
Thanks kc I didn't plan on sleeping tonight anyways

Merlin1274
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:33 AM
Now my Predictions. They go back to Dunbar with info Kelly has. It may take a few hrs for her to piece all the correct paperwork together. Meantime Pegs tells Michael about CJ's concerns, which takes Michael back to the Colony to the rescue.

the Mattagun still has to come into play. I do not think KC with tease us with it and not bring it into play. Since they are running out of ammo for the .50 cal.

OH yea. WHERE THE HELL IS BURT AND RILEY..

I think Tanya will find out the Tink's are immune due the samples she pulled from the cracks.. Remember the Little ones have been altered. So they may have the ability to breath it too but I bet the normals can not. But Tanya nor Saul could have got infected by a little one..

Unit
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:42 AM
This is my last episode ... Before turning 35. I am an old fart. Each morning, I tend to look like Palpatine more and more

Same here, my birthday is tomorrow, when is yours?

Happy Birthday!!!

GunnyBurtScott
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:44 AM
Where the hell am I?

Gooer
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:45 AM
My favourite moment was the storytime with Michael....

But seriously, THAT ENDING!!! Does this mean he wanted to be turned, and instead of the biters feeding on him, they were (somehow) made to just turn ink, so he will become their leader? And Tanya, confirmed that she can breath in Inklewood, WHAT DOES IT MEAN? THAT HER AND SAUL WILL BE SUPER-SPECIAL ONES, OR THAT THEY'RE IMMUNE? So many more questions, hopefully we will get given all the answers....

I also feel kinda bad for supporting Michael's rebellion against CJ, considering she only wants to try make sure that they all survive, even though she wants to find out where they are as much as Michael does.

Grognaurd
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:45 AM
I hoped there would be thousands of dead in the courthouse. Like most people up and died without the time to run away. As it stands now, where did everyone go? When Manhattan was evacuated on 9/11 there was sea of humanity in the streets. Think of all the square footage stacked up in the skyscrapers and then forcing all the people into the limited area between them.

We have seen hundreds of biters, not thousands and even if it was thousands, they are not going to eat millions. That is why I keep going to the ant theory, most of the colony is underground. Sigh, but that just begs the question where did they go underground.

HardKor
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:48 AM
Oh wow, a lot to go through in this one.

It looks like the only way the Colony is going to survive is to go "back to basics." Everything we've come to rely on in our society is running out (and Kudos to whoever it was that brought up the gas deteriorating in one of the threads.) and the only way they're going to make it now is to go back to pre-industrial technology. And we're gonna have to hope that Datu's Matta Gun does the trick in taking down the specials if the big ammo's running out. (But I'm pretty sure the use of the air tank to take down the Little One was a subtle hint that compressed air does, in fact, pack quite a wallop.)

The way Ink was taken is making mind mind race. I can't figure out if he was bit/scratched when his arm was pulled out, or if he there was something else special about him (like hormone or other chemicals he was using on himself that made him different) that made the regulars call off the attack and accept him as a leader. (And did I hear that right: Ink kicked the door of the van out and let himself out at the end?)

And a side note I loved Michael's trolling of Kelly in his journal. I had to break out my obnoxious laugh for that one. I didn't catch that the bit at the end might have been Kelly altering what he wrote. I just thought Michael was being a smartass.

And a final note. I guess we now know which courthouse they were in, if it was the same one form the O.J. trial.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 25th, 2013, 10:54 AM
My favourite moment was the storytime with Michael....

But seriously, THAT ENDING!!! Does this mean he wanted to be turned, and instead of the biters feeding on him, they were (somehow) made to just turn ink, so he will become their leader? And Tanya, confirmed that she can breath in Inklewood, WHAT DOES IT MEAN? THAT HER AND SAUL WILL BE SUPER-SPECIAL ONES, OR THAT THEY'RE IMMUNE? So many more questions, hopefully we will get given all the answers....

I also feel kinda bad for supporting Michael's rebellion against CJ, considering she only wants to try make sure that they all survive, even though she wants to find out where they are as much as Michael does.

Sorry, been playing alot XCOM lately, I think Saul and Tanya are "gifted" and probably be able used those same skill if they can figure the correct formula of cocktail.

I think that why Michael was such a "pushover" to let CJ run the Colony. He understand the headache.

And once again, extra yield of potatoes equal more bullets for the Matagun.

Footbutt
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:01 AM
random thoughts after today AWESOME installment:
apologies if this theory/idea has already been brought up recently...

Tanya was bitten by a SLOW TURNER.

Saul had Tommy's bullet hit him--and Tommy was JUST turned.

and now we learn Ink was bit/scratched/whatever by a very early Biter.

i think there's something VERY important about Saul and Tanya becoming infected from very recent Turners.
Ink's 'event' seems to be very unique, and i'm going out on a limb to say it's because the Biters saw his meaningful tatoos.

Grognaurd
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:07 AM
Just to play Devil's Advocate, is it more important that Saul and Tanya are immune to the effects of ground zero or that Victor and Pegs cough and feel sick?

At the time of the outbreak, lots of people died there. CJ's first scout turned and she shot him. There is clearly a spectrum of how people are affected.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:10 AM
Just to play Devil's Advocate, is it more important that Saul and Tanya are immune to the effects of ground zero or that Victor and Pegs cough and feel sick?

At the time of the outbreak, lots of people died there. CJ's first scout turned and she shot him. There is clearly a spectrum of how people are affected.

Yup, the reason for the no bodies is that other zombie have been clean the areas clear. They need food as much as the humans.

Also isn't CJ a better planner the entire counsel over at Walking Dead? Come on, she even though about the water supply being affect and infection , she not even a doctor.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:17 AM
Same here, my birthday is tomorrow, when is yours?

Happy Birthday!!!

Hi, it is on the 28th of November. :) Nice.

Verse
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:31 AM
My Ideas and thoughts <br />
<br />
1)Holy Shit... they are not at Cain anymore. I know were wondering why they had not checked out Cain or why we hadn't heard anything. Just having offical word that he left is...

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:47 AM
Am I the only one WHO can hear Ink shout something like "Help! Help! Someone!" when the regulars attack him?

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:50 AM
Michael + Kelly = The New Power Couple of WA!!!!! :)

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 11:53 AM
Am I the only one WHO can hear Ink shout something like "Help! Help! Someone!" when the regulars attack him?

Yeah, thought something like that as well. But one of the soldiers (Robbins, Muldoon, well, what's his name?) says that Ink didn't cry out or something ... So the voices in the background could have been police man, passerbys, other convicts, or whomever ...

Kc
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Yeah, thought something like that as well. But one of the soldiers (Robbins, Muldoon, well, what's his name?) says that Ink didn't cry out or something ... So the voices in the background could have been police man, passerbys, other convicts, or whomever ...

Correct. Roberts didn't say a word.

Bullethead
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:08 PM
Probably has already been stated but I can't help but think that maybe Michael does not make it out of this alive. I know many thought that since he was narrating the bulk of the episodes that he is alive at the end of this. But this episode especially has me thinking otherwise.

Hearing Michael speak to Kelly via journal entry, and her typing up the reports...I'm just thinking that maybe all of them die out, someone else finds this soft copy of journals and reads it through.

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:17 PM
Correct. Roberts didn't say a word.

That's cuz it wasn't really Roberts...
It's... Paul...

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:19 PM
Probably has already been stated but I can't help but think that maybe Michael does not make it out of this alive. I know many thought that since he was narrating the bulk of the episodes that he is alive at the end of this. But this episode especially has me thinking otherwise.

Hearing Michael speak to Kelly via journal entry, and her typing up the reports...I'm just thinking that maybe all of them die out, someone else finds this soft copy of journals and reads it through.

Na, I do not think so. Michael still has to write his journal and I guess that someone who transcripts his notes will not include the fun writing after Michael is torn apart or turned. It would be a bit inappropriate.

Bullethead
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:22 PM
Na, I do not think so. Michael still has to write his journal and I guess that someone who transcripts his notes will not include the fun writing after Michael is torn apart or turned. It would be a bit inappropriate.

Well we heard Kelly typing up the notes in this very episode. She may have typed them up the night after Michael wrote it down. Then who ever found the "soft copy" could just read verbatim. Just a thought I had while that scene played.

I can't recall too many times we hear Others reading (in this case typing) someone elses Journal Entry, when the person writing the entry is still the narrator. (Did that make sense? An example being everyone reading Kolani's journal, or when Riley read Samantha's entry into Datu's Journal).

My point being when someone else is reading the Journal and the journal author is still narrating it has been because the original author is dead. At least its the sensation I've come away with.

Malador
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:27 PM
The fact that the biters stayed outside of the van for THIRTY minutes on the day of the outbreak says that something out of the ordinary was happening. People had to be running in every direction, and these two are never distracted from trying to get in to get Roberts.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:27 PM
Well we heard Kelly typing up the notes in this very episode. They could just read verbatim. Just a thought I had while that scene played.

I can't recall too many times we hear Others reading (in this case typing) someone elses Journal Entry, when the person writing the entry is still the narrator. (Did that make sense? An example being everyone reading Kolani's journal, or when we read Datu's girl's entry).

My point being when someone else is reading the Journal and the journal author is still narrating it has been because the original author is dead. At least its the sensation I've come away with.

Yeah, that is a valid point. However, I am just a Michael Cross fan boy, he is just the poorest fellow of this whole zombicalypse thing. It is true, I am biased. :)

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:27 PM
Probably has already been stated but I can't help but think that maybe Michael does not make it out of this alive. I know many thought that since he was narrating the bulk of the episodes that he is alive at the end of this. But this episode especially has me thinking otherwise.

Hearing Michael speak to Kelly via journal entry, and her typing up the reports...I'm just thinking that maybe all of them die out, someone else finds this soft copy of journals and reads it through.

Wow, I'm not the only one WHO started thinking that after this episode? Kinda sad if it is so, but...
In the "Classic We're Alive" ... the first version of the episodes... Michael adds when he tells he was a PFC: (Private First Class, if someone finds this and doesn't know what PFC Means)
That got me thinking quite a bit too.

mischeif
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:31 PM
Well we heard Kelly typing up the notes in this very episode. She may have typed them up the night after Michael wrote it down. Then who ever found the "soft copy" could just read verbatim. Just a thought I had while that scene played.

I can't recall too many times we hear Others reading (in this case typing) someone elses Journal Entry, when the person writing the entry is still the narrator. (Did that make sense? An example being everyone reading Kolani's journal, or when Riley read Samantha's entry into Datu's Journal).

My point being when someone else is reading the Journal and the journal author is still narrating it has been because the original author is dead. At least its the sensation I've come away with.

Not quite sure what you're getting at, but Kelly is transcribing Michael's entry and when she reads he was insulting her in the entry she alters it to make herself sound good and types it so he insults himself. If he died there I don't think she would make a joke like that when transcribing it. If you are thinking everyone dies and a 3rd party is reading the Journal then that would mean Kelly made journal entries about her transcribing journal entries which would be kind of redundant, I say that because we actually heard the angry typing in the background. I think everything is still going on somewhat real time, but the story is being told through journals.

Bullethead
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:36 PM
Not quite sure what you're getting at, but Kelly is transcribing Michael's entry and when she reads he was insulting her in the entry she alters it to make herself sound good and types it so he insults himself. If he died there I don't think she would make a joke like that when transcribing it.

I'm not saying Michael dies right then and there, I was speaking overall. He may not survive this tale. You know when KC is done writing it. I did not take it as Kelly backspacing and editing his writing, I took it as Michael showing he was being facetious and complimenting Kelly after his jab at her.

But perhaps she did "backspace" and rewrite it.

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:45 PM
The fact that the biters stayed outside of the van for THIRTY minutes on the day of the outbreak says that something out of the ordinary was happening. People had to be running in every direction, and these two are never distracted from trying to get in to get Roberts.

Well, maybe I have a different understanding about what was described: After thirty minutes Ink left the car. And then there were two regulars who were in shock and awe about Ink. Since the tape was fast-forwarded we actually don't know that these two particular zombs waited there for thirty minutes. We don'T even know if these two are two of the three which attacked Inks van and Ink ...

Taking into consideration that the first three zombs attacked him, most likely wounded him, and then let go of him with nothing else happening for like 30 minutes, I would say that Ink turned from human to zomb; and since zombs did not attack each other right from the beginning (as I recall it we have it for the first time that a zomb attacks another one no earlier than in #40-1; before that they ae each other only according to the report by Skittles, and we don't know what exactly this means), I guess, Ink developed the same smell like zombs and thus did not attract any new zombie nearby ...Also he was silent and kind of hidden in the car - so he was no obvious target/ prey for any zombie walking around ...

Best wishes!
Liam

mischeif
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:48 PM
I'm not saying Michael dies right then and there, I was speaking overall. He may not survive this tale. You know when KC is done writing it. I did not take it as Kelly backspacing and editing his writing, I took it as Michael showing he was being facetious and complimenting Kelly after his jab at her.

But perhaps she did "backspace" and rewrite it.

Yeah it's not impossible I edited my post a bit, but I added the reason I think it's somewhat real time is because we hear Kelly's typing in the background.

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:48 PM
8 pages of awesome in about 5 hours- and most of it within 3 hours since release of #40-2 ...

Keep things rolling, guys! 20 more to go in order to get even with the discussions on #40-1 ... ! Gogogogo!

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:52 PM
I'm not saying Michael dies right then and there, I was speaking overall. He may not survive this tale. You know when KC is done writing it. I did not take it as Kelly backspacing and editing his writing, I took it as Michael showing he was being facetious and complimenting Kelly after his jab at her.

But perhaps she did "backspace" and rewrite it.

I doubt she'd alter the intries, especially not if the person WHO wrote it is dead. I rather think that she just makes a few "...."'s here and there.

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 12:57 PM
Correct. Roberts didn't say a word.

I'm thinking you are hearing the other people yelling and screaming in order to emphasize the fact that Roberts just stood there and let himself get bit......

Because he knew everything was going to be alright... and everything was going according to his master plan!!!

Merlin1274
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:00 PM
I got to thinking. We do not even know if the Haze has anything to do with the Zombies. Just some sort of Gas released. If the gas caused the Zombies then they would be able to all breath the air there. But they can not. So something is amiss with it all.. Still not sure what to think anymore about how the outbreak started.

Still Think Michael survives this..

Again WHERE THE HELL IS BURT AND RILEY..

I bet his knew gun is called Riley instead of Shirley They both end with Ley (Pun intended.. you go Burt :D ) so maybe Burt hooks up with Riley after spending over 4mths alone with her.. OOOHHHH.. Never know...

Kc
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:03 PM
I got to thinking. We do not even know if the Haze has anything to do with the Zombies. Just some sort of Gas released. If the gas caused the Zombies then they would be able to all breath the air there. But they can not. So something is amiss with it all.. Still not sure what to think anymore about how the outbreak started.

Who says they can't breathe there?

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:12 PM
Who says they can't breathe there?

We / some of us only assume it. When Saul and Victor were at Ground Zero, there was nothing going on. I think there were dead bodies, right? At least they did not encounter any moving monster.
Now, with #40-2 we have a hint that at least Little Ones don't seem to have (so much) trouble with the haze.
And if Tanya's as well as the communitie's understanding is correct and Tanya and Saul are ready-to-pop-zombs, then we are well enough informed to assume that them zombs should not have any trouble with the haze ...

So after all: More points speaking in favor of the theory that the haze and the zombs are a perfect match, while humans and haze should split asap ...

scbubba
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:21 PM
Oh man! What a great episode.

The "Jaws" style air tank defense was awesome. The suspense in the scene with Victor and Tanya were awesome. Learning that Tanya and Saul can breath the haze with no (apparent) effect is informative. Given what some others pointed out in this thread about how the haze seems to have affected different people in different ways - some people felt sick, some (at least one) turned, no reaction for the Tink family - I'm really wondering what we have here. Since everyone we "the listeners" have witnessed come in contact to the haze (other than Saul/Tanya) have violent reactions that I would label involuntary or reflexive I would say that Saul and Tanya are not only "immune" to it but have also had some sort of physiological change that neutralizes the reflex/gag/cough reactions. That would back up Tanya/s claims of the body being changed almost immediately after the process (whatever it is) starts. That's some powerful stuff to chew on methinks....

The scene with CJ and Pegs was kinda cool, IMO. Mainly because we see the side of CJ that's not just "f'n do it NOW!" We see the concerns she has and the stress. Mainly, we get confirmation that the "wait out the siege" mentality of the Colony isn't gonna cut it. For me anyway, CJ's scene actually strengthens Michael's quest to take out the enemy. The Colony won't make it as long as there is an active enemy out there... Obviously CJ isn't in that camp yet because she is still thinking Michael's operations are wasteful. I'm not thinking the Colony is going to remain intact for too many more Chapters (maybe 2 more?).

The courthouse was cool. A little creepy without being over the top. Learned that Kelly was in probate and not criminal law. That would probably mean that if she has any legal involvement with Ink pre-Zday, it might be in the execution of the estate of one or more of his victims (his wife, her lover, or the rest of the family). I think there isn't a pre-Z tie for them, though...

OJ's court room and Puck's comments - priceless..... :D
Same for the intra-journal comments between Michael and Kelly.

Ink - wow!
We have new info but do we have anything we can work with? Well, Ink is not patient Zero - I'm not sure most of ever thought he was, though. He broke out of the van. That means greater physical strength than normal biters from the get go for Ink. He didn't have to do anything special to earn dominance over normal biters. He just "had it" from the beginning. He was turned, as far as we can tell so far, and by a normal biter, again as far as we can tell, and that normal biter seemed to be doing normal biter things. I didn't hear anything that made me think the 3 attacking the van were acting any differently than others on Zday that we have heard of.

I'm moving more and more into the camp that Ink knew something was coming and was preparing for it. His not crying out/screaming or otherwise acting terrified that monsters were attacking him adds to that thought. The symbols of his tats or something injected into his system (or a combination of things) some how made him turn differently. My thinking at this point is that it has something to do with chemicals and Roberts' work at Raydon. The ink pens used for the tats had some Roberts special cocktail in them. The tattooing led the cops to kick off another investigation at Raydon, thus the new (and still up) police tape on the office. The special cocktail in Ink now interacts with the zombie "stuff" and makes one very special zomboid....

Ok. That's it for now. I'm gonna listen again later and may have something else to add... Or not.... :)

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:41 PM
Who says they can't breathe there?

I think this assumption was made during the first visit to Ground Zero by Saul and Victor. Saul and Victor did not see any zombies or anything living for that matter, so I think that lead to the thoughts that nothing human/animal/zombie could be in the haze.

Cabbage Patch
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:41 PM
Just for the record, the OJ Trial was held at the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center, which is where the high-profile cases are tried in LA County. It's located at 210 West Temple Street, downtown Los Angeles. It's about 5 miles from Inglewood. The only thing we've seen so far that might be near the Courthouse is the Water Works, which some sources guess is located a couple of blocks from the Courthouse (but that location has never been confirmed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Shortridge_Foltz_Criminal_Justice_Center

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:43 PM
I'm moving more and more into the camp that Ink knew something was coming and was preparing for it. His not crying out/screaming or otherwise acting terrified that monsters were attacking him adds to that thought. The symbols of his tats or something injected into his system (or a combination of things) some how made him turn differently. My thinking at this point is that it has something to do with chemicals and Roberts' work at Raydon. The ink pens used for the tats had some Roberts special cocktail in them. The tattooing led the cops to kick off another investigation at Raydon, thus the new (and still up) police tape on the office. The special cocktail in Ink now interacts with the zombie "stuff" and makes one very special zomboid....

Ok, crackpot:

William I Roberts was an eco-activist fighting against fracking. He found out that at Inglewood "Hell" would break loose, which is why he developed a cocktail of medical stuff that should help him to get past a fracking explosion or something. Because he had access to some geo-information devices and scientists he had a decent idea about when things would probably start to blow up. So he tossed this crazy mixture into his bloodlines and down his throat. That drove him so crazy and mad that he lost control over his mind and he went on a killing spree ... Thenhe was put into custody. And when he was delivered to the court, the nightmare he prepared himself for broke loose - the Fracking facilities at Inglewood exploded and created the first spawns of the zombocalypse. And the bitter irony of all this shit is that Ink was successfully avoiding death, and the mixture of medication combined with what he wanted to fend off made him more powerful - although, admitted, the Inglewood-side-effects were handed over to Ink by three zombs. So his "eco-enemy" (fracking) made him even more powerfull ...

This would be an incredible spin off for "Toxix Avenger" ...
http://clzimages.com/movie/large/f4/f4_d__0_TheToxicAvenger.jpg

Best wishes!
Liam

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:46 PM
Just for the record, the OJ Trial was held at the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center, which is where the high-profile cases are tried in LA County. It's located at 210 West Temple Street, downtown Los Angeles. It's about 5 miles from Inglewood. The only thing we've seen so far that might be near the Courthouse is the Water Works, which some sources guess is located a couple of blocks from the Courthouse (but that location has never been confirmed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Shortridge_Foltz_Criminal_Justice_Center

Which in return means: Ink was turned into a zombie when the zombie-onslaugt was already in its at least 2nd hour or something ...

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:53 PM
HOLY SMOKE GUYS! 10 pages already? The episode is only 4 hours old.

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 01:56 PM
HOLY SMOKE GUYS! 10 pages already? The episode is only 4 hours old.

Yeah, after the start of season #4 we just needed a couple of episodes to get back into forum-activity-shape ... And here we are ... :)

Merlin1274
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:00 PM
Who says they can't breathe there?
Its assumed.. Because no activity there when Saul and Victor were there as mentioned. With the bodies still laying around and not moved like everywhere else.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:03 PM
Indeed! Was it truly an earthquake? Or was it some subterranean event that mimics an earthquake? An underground facility of some kind? Or a natural gas pocket that's slowly shifting?

Good question. The guy they spoke with on Lynnwood avenue didn't feel it. They are relatively close.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by skankyfish View Post (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?p=67843#post67843)
Indeed! Was it truly an earthquake? Or was it some subterranean event that mimics an earthquake? An underground facility of some kind? Or a natural gas pocket that's slowly shifting?


Fracking?

No, that's Battlestar Galactica. hehehe :D Just kidding. Good point.

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:08 PM
HOLY SMOKE GUYS! 10 pages already? The episode is only 4 hours old.

Thou canst not stop us, thy fool, just try! Thy brain will be eaten by Ink's army before thou wilt even be close to us...
Or not... But yeah, it's crazy! I love it though, always nice to read others thoughts about the latest episode. :D
To quote Pink Floyd: Keep talking

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:15 PM
I hoped there would be thousands of dead in the courthouse. Like most people up and died without the time to run away. As it stands now, where did everyone go? When Manhattan was evacuated on 9/11 there was sea of humanity in the streets. Think of all the square footage stacked up in the skyscrapers and then forcing all the people into the limited area between them.

We have seen hundreds of biters, not thousands and even if it was thousands, they are not going to eat millions. That is why I keep going to the ant theory, most of the colony is underground. Sigh, but that just begs the question where did they go underground.

Good point about the ant theory. They don't attack there own and they show deference towards others like Ink and smart ones.

Kc
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:20 PM
Yeah, after the start of season #4 we just needed a couple of episodes to get back into forum-activity-shape ... And here we are ... :)

The first few episodes were never meant to be "Theory-riddled", more or less to take care of the pieces left over from the previous season, and start to set up the last one before we made that 4 month jump. So, as much as people were like "This is slow... blah blah." it was entirely necessary before we got to these moments.


Its assumed.. Because no activity there when Saul and Victor were there as mentioned. With the bodies still laying around and not moved like everywhere else.

True, but I feel it might be a mistake to think that "we" would react the same as "them". That doesn't give much of anything away, or hints, just "helping".

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:26 PM
Oh wow, a lot to go through in this one.

It looks like the only way the Colony is going to survive is to go "back to basics." Everything we've come to rely on in our society is running out (and Kudos to whoever it was that brought up the gas deteriorating in one of the threads.) and the only way they're going to make it now is to go back to pre-industrial technology....

Going pre-industial. It's like CJ doesn't even look at that as an option. Even Pegs is offering old world solutions to some of the problems mentioned. At first I thought CJ was jealous at not being the superstar savior that Pegs is becoming. "Go Pegs!" But, she seems genuinely concerned. Maybe she's concern for keeping her own usefulness.

CJ does share a concern that I also have, and that is the possibility of contamination of above ground water supplies by the rotting human & Z corpses. Other than that, it might be wise to let Micheal take the fight to Ink and the Inklings because they are more difficult to deal with. Get rid of them and wait out the regulars. Once the tough ones are gone then the need for the gas guzzling gun trucks would lessen.

Verse
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:33 PM
This is why I am sooo glad I stopped lurking and got involved finally.

I did not catch that the Kelly/Michael thing may have been her doing an Edit. Relistening to that one part makes me 110% in thought she did. Even the way "Michael" talked/joked sounded like something Kelly would say or add. That is a great find. Even hearing keystrokes. Great catch.

Yeah, we all assumed that the Biters could not breath the Haze. If they can (and at this point I think they can) then there has to be another reason why they stayed away so long.

My guess is that the Haze screws with them. That could be the reason why #7 attacked the normal. The Haze messing with their mind. Make it so they are not controled or in control. Ink stayed away because while there the Biters are independent. Maybe #7 attacking the normal was because of a slow leak there. Kinda like how animals know a natural disaster is coming. The Haze was not out enough to cause issues with Victor, but enough that those that are effected (Fully Turned Biters) turn on each other. If I am right... then Ink cleared the place out before hand. Had #7 guard it (Like he had the one guarding Raydon), and the slow leak started right before the tremor. If the Haze makes them aggressive... then that may explain why he attacked the normal.

That could also explain why the ones in Hawaii were more aggressive (As told by Kalani). Being a Volcaneo and bigger vents made them much more aggressive. My guess is that Tanya will find that out now that she has samples.

Beating a Dead Horse.... but maybe Ink didn't fight because he was hopped up on drugs? If he was so dang nuts and had to be treated to keep from flying off the handle (even at will), maybe he was drugged up to his eye balls. Him being crazy mixed with the "Lets not be Crazy" pills kept him calm during the turning and after the turning. Even though there is more and more evidence that Ink knew what the crap was about to happen... I still think it was just a happy coincidence. The odds are stacking against it, but you never know.

Elisa
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:42 PM
Sorry for me the turning of Ink was not a coincidence and neither are the explosions in Inglewood. Ink is a crazy ZA mastermind. New world order. Just a gut feeling.

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:45 PM
This is why I am sooo glad I stopped lurking and got involved finally.

I did not catch that the Kelly/Michael thing may have been her doing an Edit. Relistening to that one part makes me 110% in thought she did. Even the way "Michael" talked/joked sounded like something Kelly would say or add. That is a great find. Even hearing keystrokes. Great catch.

Yeah, we all assumed that the Biters could not breath the Haze. If they can (and at this point I think they can) then there has to be another reason why they stayed away so long.

My guess is that the Haze screws with them. That could be the reason why #7 attacked the normal. The Haze messing with their mind. Make it so they are not controled or in control. Ink stayed away because while there the Biters are independent. Maybe #7 attacking the normal was because of a slow leak there. Kinda like how animals know a natural disaster is coming. The Haze was not out enough to cause issues with Victor, but enough that those that are effected (Fully Turned Biters) turn on each other. If I am right... then Ink cleared the place out before hand. Had #7 guard it (Like he had the one guarding Raydon), and the slow leak started right before the tremor. If the Haze makes them aggressive... then that may explain why he attacked the normal.

That could also explain why the ones in Hawaii were more aggressive (As told by Kalani). Being a Volcaneo and bigger vents made them much more aggressive. My guess is that Tanya will find that out now that she has samples.

Beating a Dead Horse.... but maybe Ink didn't fight because he was hopped up on drugs? If he was so dang nuts and had to be treated to keep from flying off the handle (even at will), maybe he was drugged up to his eye balls. Him being crazy mixed with the "Lets not be Crazy" pills kept him calm during the turning and after the turning. Even though there is more and more evidence that Ink knew what the crap was about to happen... I still think it was just a happy coincidence. The odds are stacking against it, but you never know.

You have a very good and interesting point by throwing in the parallel to Kalani'S report about the more aggressive zombs on Hawaii ... So, yeah, probably the haze affects the zombs to a certain degree.

As for #7 attacking the standard biter: I guess this is just the normal "eating"-thing comparable to what Skittles reported about the Behemoths eating biters ... The Little Ones are very powerfull, and they need a lot of food to keep working or functioning or whatever word suits best for zombs ... But I could also think of Little Ones or special ones being used to "defend" the Groudn Zero territory against anything trying to get too close ... But this idea lacks the important fact that over the time the survivors were able to get into the area several times without getting in touch with zombs; also the Little Ones weren't there in the beginning to defend anything. So I guess the lack of zombs in the beginning might have been caused simply by food having run away ... And the ones that were scattered around ... Well at some point in time the bodies were collected ...

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/63/6323/Z5Z7100Z/posters/zombies-hate-fast-food-poster.jpg

Gnex
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:46 PM
Ok I just relistened to this episode......

When they are watching the video of Ink getting bit...... Kelly says that the zombies just all of a sudden stopped.

Now we already know that Tanya was bitten by not that deep, because she stopped the zombie before it got too deep.......... and then we know Saul was possibly infected from the gunshot but not an actual bite.........

So the Question/Thought........ Is a Bite not just a Bite??? Are there multiple stages to an actual bite?? Seems to me that the Zombie bites are almost like snake bites..... Most people are getting a full dose of whatever is causing them to change........ but some are quick enough or lucky enough to only get a small dose and either become slow turners.... or whatever we want to call Saul/Tanya/Ink......

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:52 PM
Ok I just relistened to this episode......

When they are watching the video of Ink getting bit...... Kelly says that the zombies just all of a sudden stopped.

Now we already know that Tanya was bitten by not that deep, because she stopped the zombie before it got too deep.......... and then we know Saul was possibly infected from the gunshot but not an actual bite.........

So the Question/Thought........ Is a Bite not just a Bite??? Are there multiple stages to an actual bite?? Seems to me that the Zombie bites are almost like snake bites..... Most people are getting a full dose of whatever is causing them to change........ but some are quick enough or lucky enough to only get a small dose and either become slow turners.... or whatever we want to call Saul/Tanya/Ink......

Mh ... From a variety of reports as well as "ear-whitnessing" we know that turning may take place within seconds (Ramon), over a couple of minutes (Tommy) or even longer (Amy) and much longer (the first Little One attacking Boulder). It is safe to assume that there is no fix value. Different factors may interact here - the type of wounding, the amount of infection, the individual's bodyly functions and medical stage etc. It is quite safe to assume that biters infect by biting, while Little Ones infect by scratching or wounding with the fingernails ...

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 03:09 PM
Just for the record, the OJ Trial was held at the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center, which is where the high-profile cases are tried in LA County. It's located at 210 West Temple Street, downtown Los Angeles. It's about 5 miles from Inglewood. The only thing we've seen so far that might be near the Courthouse is the Water Works, which some sources guess is located a couple of blocks from the Courthouse (but that location has never been confirmed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Shortridge_Foltz_Criminal_Justice_Center

I KNEW you would post this info. Also, from the last episode, Micheal reads that he was being transported from to the courthouse from the L.A. County Jail. Which one? I thought perhaps if he was being transferred from the Hollywood jail then that would take him through Ingelwood at around the time of the outbreak. But that wouldn't explain why no on else in the van was affect the same way. I was thinking that if he was turned there or exposed there then the Zs would see him differently from others, but this doesn't seem to be a workable idea.

It looks like we're gonna need a lil more information before we can piece together a clearer picture, but the speculation is fun too. Especially when you're surprised.

:tinfoil: Perhaps something from ground Zero was a key ingredient in Ink's Homeopathic HGH.

LiamKerrington
Nov 25th, 2013, 03:11 PM
:tinfoil: Perhaps something from ground Zero was a key ingredient in Ink's Homeopathic HGH.

HGH? What's that?

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 03:15 PM
So, did anyone else catch the fact that the haze was gone when they got there and it later returned? It's not constant.

Also, what about that rain storm? Didn't hear it anywhere else. Are the events taking place at different times, or is the storm 'localized' like the earthquake?

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 03:17 PM
HGH? What's that?

Human Growth Hormone. I was being a bit facetious. :D

FunkyDung
Nov 25th, 2013, 04:08 PM
"We're Alive Addicts Anonymous"

WAAA

Heh. Call out the WAAAmulance. ;)

FunkyDung
Nov 25th, 2013, 04:17 PM
i personally was never in the "i hate CJ club"; i think her character is very interesting and has gone through so much as a leader. this little look into her 'resignment' was awesome. she doesn't know what to do, and i think that's the most frustrating thing for her.

I almost started to feel sorry for her and hate her less, but she kind of cranked the pity party up to 11. She's like Eeyore without the adorable charm. Stop whining and start getting creative, woman!

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 04:36 PM
So Burt and Michale are using the same strategy to look for Ink and Scratch. They are both looking for places that Ink or Scratch would been familiar with.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 25th, 2013, 04:40 PM
Was he or wasn't he bitten? They grabbed his arm, he stopped fighting back, they stopped attacking.

I hope they take the video recorder with them. Good thinking Puck. Curse these cliffhangers.

7oddisdead
Nov 25th, 2013, 04:51 PM
So...not gonna lie, I feel like this entire episode was directed at me.


more on that later. Good stuff so far everybody

Grognaurd
Nov 25th, 2013, 04:52 PM
The Haze

So, is it just some quasi-natural phenomena? The Earth just burped or something. I use Quasi because humans may have been fracking, pumping crap down to force the natural gas up and out. Crap just happened and not a deliberate murder of humanity. I find it interesting that there is a thunderstorm in the area. Does the approach of the low pressure system help to coax some of the last gas out of the Earth and into the atmosphere.

I see another possibility that I have had since the beginning, is it an area denial weapon? Something defensive to keep others away. We should not forget that the gas returned after a gunshot. Even the low tech surveillance system of the tower had video and sound. The normal biter was sniffing around the truck, heck it might have followed them into the area.

EDIT. I should also include the Apocolyptic Cult. I have had it for a while. It is just hard to believe that the Earth burped corpse gas at so many different places about the same time.

The haze clearly has a broad spectrum of effect. We know there is something different about Saul and Tanya so that is most likely, but we have to keep an open mind. If Pegs is from Venus and Victor is from Mars, may be the gas is designed to keep aliens away. Nah, I said open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out. But, you get the idea.

Now for my :tinfoil: We see Ink get attacked and we think he got turned, but we know he is special. His crew uses fire in the arena and that is tool use. He also has clear green eyes. Now, get crazy! Did Ink infect the normal biters with something in him? Their behavior is clearly changed. Is it just he is a smart person? Scientist really are not known for their awesome charisma.

Elisa
Nov 25th, 2013, 05:36 PM
The Haze

Now for my :tinfoil: We see Ink get attacked and we think he got turned, but we know he is special. His crew uses fire in the arena and that is tool use. He also has clear green eyes. Now, get crazy! Did Ink infect the normal biters with something in him? Their behavior is clearly changed. Is it just he is a smart person? Scientist really are not known for their awesome charisma.

Well Ink did break open the van door or hatch so all of sudden he did get zombie type strength, so he is no longer human. I still think he is partially turned but more than Tanya and Saul. The reaction of the two regular zeds to the new improved alpha Ink was very animalistic. I mean I know when you bring in a male dog in a female dog household, all of the sudden the previous she dog turns into Ms slave of the alpha male dog. So the reactions of the two regular zeds to Ink, kinda reminded me of that.

Re The Haze, dunno I think someone is messing with area and manipulating it. This could have been some sort of retaliation or mode of defensive against Victor and Tanya getting close to Ink's Dr Frankenstein lab perhaps underground....:tinfoil:

werewolf
Nov 25th, 2013, 05:39 PM
I thought I was losing my mind today at work when I heard Micheal say that Kelly was the beautiful princess. I had to come home and listen to again so I could actually hear what was said. So, then I remember Kelly is transcribing all the notes. Is transcribing them faithfully? I wonder?

Merlin1274
Nov 25th, 2013, 07:53 PM
I got he called her a Princess as a joke..

The tremor released a new pocket of the gas/haze. I am not sure if someone is creating that or not.
Sometimes I feel we are giving Ink too much credit.. I think he is just an opportunist and has enough back ground and apparently has retained enough of his human side to be able to do what he is doing.
Then again maybe they new about the pockets of gas and new ahead of time what would happen if it was released.. We will not know till we learn what his true profession was at Raydon.. Mad Scientist yes. Mad Scientist Genius, maybe. KC only knows.. hell maybe he is part of the NWO and this is the first steps in them taking over the world.

Condor
Nov 25th, 2013, 08:34 PM
Just when I thought Victor had scored "zombie kill of the week" with the air tank assisted road rash, #7 gets back up.

When Tanya got on the radio for help, I was almost expecting Burt or Riley to answer the SOS.



HOLY SMOKE GUYS! 10 pages already? The episode is only 4 hours old.
I'm only on page 3. :)


Going pre-industial. It's like CJ doesn't even look at that as an option. Even Pegs is offering old world solutions to some of the problems mentioned. At first I thought CJ was jealous at not being the superstar savior that Pegs is becoming. "Go Pegs!" But, she seems genuinely concerned. Maybe she's concern for keeping her own usefulness.

CJ does share a concern that I also have, and that is the possibility of contamination of above ground water supplies by the rotting human & Z corpses. Other than that, it might be wise to let Micheal take the fight to Ink and the Inklings because they are more difficult to deal with. Get rid of them and wait out the regulars. Once the tough ones are gone then the need for the gas guzzling gun trucks would lessen.

It did seem a bit odd that CJ insisted there would be no water without the "big ass generator". People got water from wells before electricity. She's not forward thinking either, what about solar power? Seems like it would be easier to hook up some solar panels to the pumps rather than try to build some wind powered pump.



The Haze

So, is it just some quasi-natural phenomena. The Earth just burped or something. I use Quasi because humans may have been fracking, pumping crap down to force the natural gas up and out. Crap just happened and not a deliberate murder of humanity. I find it interesting that there is a thunderstorm in the area. Does the approach of the low pressure system help to coax some of the last gas out of the Earth and into the atmosphere.

I see another possibility that I have had since the beginning, is it an area denial weapon? Something defensive to keep others away. We should not forget that the gas returned after a gunshot. Even the low tech surveillance system of the tower had video and sound. The normal biter was sniffing around the truck, heck it might have followed them into the area.

The haze clearly has a broad spectrum of effect. We know there is something different about Saul and Tanya so that is most likely, but we have to keep an open mind. If Pegs is from Venus and Victor is from Mars, may be the gas is designed to keep aliens away. Nah, I said open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out. But, you get the idea.

Now for my :tinfoil: We see Ink get attacked and we think he got turned, but we know he is special. His crew uses fire in the arena and that is tool use. He also has clear green eyes. Now, get crazy! Did Ink infect the normal biters with something in him? Their behavior is clearly changed. Is it just he is a smart person? Scientist really are not known for their awesome charisma.
Clearly the haze came from #7 farting. :D



Well Ink did break open the van door or hatch so all of sudden he did get zombie type strength, so he is no longer human. I still think he is partially turned but more than Tanya and Saul. The reaction of the two regular zeds to the new improved alpha Ink was very animalistic. I mean I know when you bring in a male dog in a female dog household, all of the sudden the previous she dog turns into Ms slave of the alpha male dog. So the reactions of the two regular zeds to Ink, kinda reminded me of that.

Re The Haze, dunno I think someone is messing with area and manipulating it. This could have been some sort of retaliation or mode of defensive against Victor and Tanya getting close to Ink's Dr Frankenstein lab perhaps underground....:tinfoil:
Did he break open the van door? It just said he kicked open the door, maybe the "3 regulars" broke the lock, then it wouldn't have been any trouble to kick it open. The flaw in that theory is that Ink would have most likely been shackled inside the van, how did he get loose from that?
"At one point, it looked as if they'd got his arm." Did they really get his arm, or were they handing him a key?
Of course the 2 biters were just staring, you know he was looking pimp in that pinstripe suit. :D

TacticalJHP
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:44 PM
True, but I feel it might be a mistake to think that "we" would react the same as "them". That doesn't give much of anything away, or hints, just "helping".

Oh, well it obviously does not effect the infected the same as the uninfected. that is evident by Saul not getting choked up as much and Tanya breathing just fine in the haze.

What effect did this have on #7, we are not sure yet. These things walk through gunfire massive bodily harm to achieve their goals, so a little "choked up" may be nothing at all.

My personal opinion is that once infected, they become immune to the gas, possibly even enjoy it....but that might just push it a little bit.

....and for my "Off In Left Field" theory, maybe after the Maulers raised the Arena, they moved to Inglewood where it was safe. Or, just possibly the arena was a sideshow all along. I think Ground Zero is where Michael's search for Ink will lead, and they will find him and a couple few more infected.

This should probably have gone in the theory section. Bad Tactical. :o

daveyman23
Nov 26th, 2013, 12:48 AM
I got to thinking. We do not even know if the Haze has anything to do with the Zombies. Just some sort of Gas released. If the gas caused the Zombies then they would be able to all breath the air there. But they can not. So something is amiss with it all.. Still not sure what to think anymore about how the outbreak started.

But in the real world, cracks dont just open up in LA and spew poisonous gas. Its too coincidental

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 12:49 AM
alrighty, to start...what forum member here makes milk? for a job?....heres a hint...his name starts with a #7...dun dun dunnnnnn



anyways, just figured id drop this off...from my post in 40-1 ,just figured it needed said again.

"-WHERE THE FUCK DID THE HAZE GO!?!?!?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki
I found this to be very interesting reading, while likely it has NOTHING to do with what happened to the haze, it is interesting nonetheless to see that things like this have happened in real life. another thing to consider is theres a storm rolling in at the time vic and Tanya are at ground zero. what affects could barometric pressures have on the haze? we haven't had rain in the story since early on. that seems VERY strange to me considering where the story is taking place(admittedly, that could just be a storytelling thing).

- I know we really have to go by what Michael tells us when describing the transport van. and im sure Michael would be able to tell the difference between "broken in" and "broken out" ....but I personally wonder...something about that all just seems fishy to me. I would MUCH rather believe ink busted himself out than a bunch of freshly turned biters broke in to get at him. the man is the daddy of the inklings after all..."

now a few things ive noticed...

so the van was both broken into AND broken out of. the thing I question about this scene is, county transport vans are generally large, box style vans...key word "large". IF Roberts wanted to stay away from the three biters attacking the van, that would seem to be a simple task...GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE VAN. another thing of note is he was allegedly bitten/scratched on the arm...the symbol tattooed arm. another bit of note is the two remaining biters showed deference when he stepped from the van. hands and face visable.

another bit of info for ya, so the attack on Roberts took place at 10:42am. if we check the map, and reference the location as close to the waterworks(good on ya cabbagepatch)..nearly every part of la should have been seeing the outbreak occurring as they travelled to the courthouse. although, the upper northwest section of the map shows some quick spreading in the general area. the area around the tower did not see outbreak til 11am..though the courthouse is north of that..and clearly outbreak reached that location in the 10:30-ish range. the only thing I can think of is the transport officers likely arrived at the courthouse and went inside and had the place evacuated. that seems plausible. it also seems plausible that the transport van could have travelled through Inglewood and brought the outbreak to the courthouse area more quickly than natural progression would have.

coming back to ground zero.
as I stated last episode, what affects could the storm have on the haze? I think a better question could be what effect does a lack of uv light(sunlight) have on it. from all we know, based on what was said about the scout truck or whatever being close to the area yet not feeling the tremors...this could very well happen every morning as the sun rises. at this point none of us can clearly put a finger on just what the hell is going on there.

we do know however, that saul, Tanya, and the little ones are not affected by the haze (I don't care what KC says, regulars avoid it..it may or may not affect them...but they don't go there. that's enough info for me). Tanya claims that could be very bad, but I don't see how. it would seem that would mean that whatever caused the "little ones" is a separate strain. could her and saul not also be a "separate" strain?..she also has first hand experience with a little ones physiognomy..that, along with the haze sample should make piecing the puzzle a tad bit easier I would think.

im fairly certain I had other ideas that have escaped into the ether...oh well, save those for page 22 I suppose.

todd out

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 12:51 AM
But in the real world, cracks dont just open up in LA and spew poisonous gas. Its too coincidental

you must not have met many LA plumbers! :D







apologies to any LA plumbers...it was an easy joke, I took it.

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 01:05 AM
Was he or wasn't he bitten? They grabbed his arm, he stopped fighting back, they stopped attacking.

I hope they take the video recorder with them. Good thinking Puck. Curse these cliffhangers.

Hs arm was out. But when they watched the screen none described what happened to it. So actually we only assume he was wounded and infected. As 7odd points out: such vans are huge, so why would Ink stay close to where the biters attack and not try to avoid them? Would this be kind of an expression of his madness? Or was he delused and did he think that these were not zombs, but some people who wanted him to help to get free?
I think they did not take the tape with them; but they recorded this move by "screening" it with their own camera. I wonder how "good" the quality of this might be ...


another bit of info for ya, so the attack on Roberts took place at 10:42am. if we check the map, and reference the location as close to the waterworks(good on ya cabbagepatch)..nearly every part of la should have been seeing the outbreak occurring as they travelled to the courthouse. although, the upper northwest section of the map shows some quick spreading in the general area. the area around the tower did not see outbreak til 11am..though the courthouse is north of that..and clearly outbreak reached that location in the 10:30-ish range. the only thing I can think of is the transport officers likely arrived at the courthouse and went inside and had the place evacuated. that seems plausible. it also seems plausible that the transport van could have travelled through Inglewood and brought the outbreak to the courthouse area more quickly than natural progression would have.

Maybe the van arrived at the court before hell started to spill out zombs ... They could have arrived earlier in the morning; before Ink was to be "released" into the courthouse, the driver had to do some usual paperwork and wait for security staff to get to him; then solid brown mass hit the turbine, and everyone started to care for himself and simply forgot about Ink in the van; then the zombs showed up ...
Regardless of that there is something almost creepy about your version, which I like. That would support the idea of Ink being kind of a mastermind behind it ... But would this also imply that Ink is the source of all the breakouts around the Rim of Fire?


coming back to ground zero. ...
we do know however, that saul, Tanya, and the little ones are not affected by the haze (I don't care what KC says, regulars avoid it..it may or may not affect them...but they don't go there. that's enough info for me). Tanya claims that could be very bad, but I don't see how. it would seem that would mean that whatever caused the "little ones" is a separate strain. could her and saul not also be a "separate" strain?..she also has first hand experience with a little ones physiognomy..that, along with the haze sample should make piecing the puzzle a tad bit easier I would think.

A regular was near ground zero, when it got attacked by the Little One ... So actually we have first hand evidence that regulars don't necessarily avoid ground zero. When Saul and Victor were there they did not encounter beasts, because everything was dead and them zombs were busy stampeding anything that held life in it ...

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 01:25 AM
another bit of info for ya, so the attack on Roberts took place at 10:42am. if we check the map, and reference the location as close to the waterworks(good on ya cabbagepatch)..nearly every part of la should have been seeing the outbreak occurring as they travelled to the courthouse. although, the upper northwest section of the map shows some quick spreading in the general area. the area around the tower did not see outbreak til 11am..though the courthouse is north of that..and clearly outbreak reached that location in the 10:30-ish range. the only thing I can think of is the transport officers likely arrived at the courthouse and went inside and had the place evacuated. that seems plausible. it also seems plausible that the transport van could have travelled through Inglewood and brought the outbreak to the courthouse area more quickly than natural progression would have.

According to the Wiki:
- Gardena was hit at 10:00am
- Santa Monica and Compton were hit at about 10:30am
- Inks van (so: the court was hit at 10:30-ish) was hit at about 10:42am

- Gardena is 7mi South from Inglewood
- Compton is 11mi South-East from Inglewood, while Santa Monica is the opposite, so 10mi North-West from Inglewood
- the Court is like 10mi North-East from Inglewood

What does this tell us? From the logs it tells us that "it" did not start in Inglewood; or if it has started there, then at first it spread southwards at least quicker than anywhere else ...
But then again: Do these small time-variations make a real difference?

One thing is pretty certain: 10 miles of zombiespread per half an hour (if the logs match it 1o1) or at least at a rate of 10mi per hour is really quick. To me this means that them zombs must have appeared at various points or that the stuff making zombs spread more quickly and turned more zombs than zombs running around and eating/ turning other people's faces. 10miles on foot while chasing and hunting prey in less then an hour? Wow. Just wow.

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 01:37 AM
Hs arm was out. But when they watched the screen none described what happened to it. So actually we only assume he was wounded and infected. As 7odd points out: such vans are huge, so why would Ink stay close to where the biters attack and not try to avoid them? Would this be kind of an expression of his madness? Or was he delused and did he think that these were not zombs, but some people who wanted him to help to get free?
I think they did not take the tape with them; but they recorded this move by "screening" it with their own camera. I wonder how "good" the quality of this might be ...



Maybe the van arrived at the court before hell started to spill out zombs ... They could have arrived earlier in the morning; before Ink was to be "released" into the courthouse, the driver had to do some usual paperwork and wait for security staff to get to him; then solid brown mass hit the turbine, and everyone started to care for himself and simply forgot about Ink in the van; then the zombs showed up ...
Regardless of that there is something almost creepy about your version, which I like. That would support the idea of Ink being kind of a mastermind behind it ... But would this also imply that Ink is the source of all the breakouts around the Rim of Fire?



A regular was near ground zero, when it got attacked by the Little One ... So actually we have first hand evidence that regulars don't necessarily avoid ground zero. When Saul and Victor were there they did not encounter beasts, because everything was dead and them zombs were busy stampeding anything that held life in it ...

ok, last bit first.
yea, a biter was at ground zero. perhaps I should have been more specific. regulars avoid THE HAZE....

middle.
they would not leave ink in the van for an extended period of time. I cant think of scenario where that would happen, more times than not the courthouse/county sheriffs dept/police are less concerned about the prisoners safety and more concerned with their own in a situation like that. avoiding issues across the board to simply get there and get him inside

first
I once read a novella by a dude named andrew mayne. in this book the main character's body gave off some type of something that turned regular people into 28 days later style zombies when in his presence. soon as he got away from them...they went back to normal. what if ink has that effect on the biters, but in reverse?...so they are all agro and raging...till they see him/his tats...then docile(in a metter of speaking) I have that affect on Airedales.

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 01:44 AM
According to the Wiki:
- Gardena was hit at 10:00am
- Santa Monica and Compton were hit at about 10:30am
- Inks van (so: the court was hit at 10:30-ish) was hit at about 10:42am

- Gardena is 7mi South from Inglewood
- Compton is 11mi South-East from Inglewood, while Santa Monica is the opposite, so 10mi North-West from Inglewood
- the Court is like 10mi North-East from Inglewood

What does this tell us? From the logs it tells us that "it" did not start in Inglewood; or if it has started there, then at first it spread southwards at least quicker than anywhere else ...
But then again: Do these small time-variations make a real difference?

One thing is pretty certain: 10 miles of zombiespread per half an hour (if the logs match it 1o1) or at least at a rate of 10mi per hour is really quick. To me this means that them zombs must have appeared at various points or that the stuff making zombs spread more quickly and turned more zombs than zombs running around and eating/ turning other people's faces. 10miles on foot while chasing and hunting prey in less then an hour? Wow. Just wow.


but what happens to those figures if we completely eliminate Inglewood as a whole? by that I mean take a total area of say 10mi square(five miles from dead center Inglewood in a circle.) that reduces outbreak spreading rates by at least a third. near as I can figure, anyone actually at the epicenter of it all in Inglewood did not get out. thus, we can expand the actual "it" out some way....maybe 5miles, maybe less.

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 02:11 AM
STORY TIME!

I remembered one of the other things I thought of.
"what if"

bill Roberts is paranoid schizophrenic. while this typically does not manifest itself with visual hallucinations, what if at the moment of turning(or NOT turning) he had his entire mental state snap? by this I mean the biters attacking him became normal people rescuing him? all the normal people fleeing the scene became biters fleeing the scene? what if by creating the "little ones" and behemoths he is simply trying to gain an advantage over the enemy/ us as biters he believes we are? what if all the crazy ass symbols he draws/ tattoos are what he interprets as the language he and his "normal people" speak? his master call that he sends out is simply his normal voice(to his ears at least)and the scary part is...what if hes right?? the entire idea is far too interesting (and far too plausible) to rule out. the scene with the two biters at the end of this episode made me start to question just what is in fact real and what isn't. itll be interesting to see where this goes from here.

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 02:37 AM
but what happens to those figures if we completely eliminate Inglewood as a whole? by that I mean take a total area of say 10mi square(five miles from dead center Inglewood in a circle.) that reduces outbreak spreading rates by at least a third. near as I can figure, anyone actually at the epicenter of it all in Inglewood did not get out. thus, we can expand the actual "it" out some way....maybe 5miles, maybe less.

Mh ... If we eliminate Inglewood, most distances grow, because Inglewood is right in the middle of it. In such a case Gardena would be the starting point (first mentioning of zombs at 10am). It would be weird, though, that it took them zombs like half an hour to get to Compton, which is much closer to Gardena than any other place, while at about the same time zomb-attacks were reported from Santa Monica; Santa Monica is farthest away. Additionally: why would it take them zeehs to get to the Court a little longer than to Santa Monica, although the Court is slightly closer to Gardena than Santa Monica (arguable)?

Let's keep things spinning:

Let's consider CJ's report as evidence that the haze turns humans into zeehs. This is what she told about one of her dudes who was out there to explore the place. And let's assume The Haze had its first appearance in Inglewood right when the zombocalypse kicked in - the explosion recognized by Michael in #1-1 might point to it, if it is not something else that exploded. So: Inglewood under the Haze produced the first wave of zombies, which then more or less evenly moved into several directions simultaneously - still 10mi per half-an-hour to an hour until they reach Compton, Santa Monica, the Court and other locations "nearby". Gardena is weird, 'cause the first zombs appearing there were reported at about 10am, which is before any other location ...
In this scenario them zombs wouldn't chase the van which held Ink in it.

Best wishes!
Liam

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 02:44 AM
middle.
they would not leave ink in the van for an extended period of time. I cant think of scenario where that would happen, more times than not the courthouse/county sheriffs dept/police are less concerned about the prisoners safety and more concerned with their own in a situation like that. avoiding issues across the board to simply get there and get him inside


Yes, they wouldn't have left Ink for an extended period of time on purpose.
But I could imagine the one driver gets out of the car to smoke a cigarette (or is this forbidden in LA?) or go to the water-closet, while the other dude enters the building to do some paperwork, which usually takes only a few minutes. So here we have no extended period of time.
Then news reports are all over the place - in TeeVo as well as radio broadcasting that riots are all over the place. This draws attention - even from guys who normally tightly stick to their schedule. This might have extended the leaving of the van for another few minutes.
Then you have like screams and turmoil near the Court. The two van-drivers are simply caught in the panick-frenzy that sweeps over the whole area. Maybe they also saw a regular attacking someone and they tried to interfere with the action or something ... So in the end they simply "forgot" about Ink.

Best wishes!
Liam

Storm
Nov 26th, 2013, 02:50 AM
STORY TIME!

I remembered one of the other things I thought of.
"what if"

bill Roberts is paranoid schizophrenic. while this typically does not manifest itself with visual hallucinations, what if at the moment of turning(or NOT turning) he had his entire mental state snap? by this I mean the biters attacking him became normal people rescuing him? all the normal people fleeing the scene became biters fleeing the scene? what if by creating the "little ones" and behemoths he is simply trying to gain an advantage over the enemy/ us as biters he believes we are? what if all the crazy ass symbols he draws/ tattoos are what he interprets as the language he and his "normal people" speak? his master call that he sends out is simply his normal voice(to his ears at least)and the scary part is...what if hes right?? the entire idea is far too interesting (and far too plausible) to rule out. the scene with the two biters at the end of this episode made me start to question just what is in fact real and what isn't. itll be interesting to see where this goes from here.

Questioning reality is always fun...
You wouldn't really be able to tell if what you experience is real... You might be living in The Matrix...
There's no spoon...

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 03:21 AM
Liam.

I think we have the language thing kicking in again. I'm saying basically what your saying, but for different reasons. With exception to ink outside in the van. He would not be left alone...at all. And the original point of that was, they would not arrive "that" early(9am-ish) and sit outside for hours..i cannot believe that would happen at least. Prisoner(insane or not) should not have that much time outside of confined space (criminal or clinical)

and with the" removing Inglewood" thing. I said what you said. Draw a circle around Inglewood...a BIG circle....measure rate of spread from that point, not Inglewood itself.

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 03:40 AM
7odd:
Yeah, the language thing ... *g*

Footbutt
Nov 26th, 2013, 05:10 AM
i'm still holding on to the idea that Ink's tatoos are the reason his turners stopped and payed attention/followed him afterward.
like others said too, he was doped up on anti-psychotics too... which could be reason why he was at Cain Mental? in order to keep him sustained, he still needs his meds! after he exhausted the Hospital's supply, perhaps he moved on?

and when was the last time anyone actually saw TOWTM? during the battle at the Colony?
i find that a bit suspicious.... i think we're going to see another appearance soon!

Grognaurd
Nov 26th, 2013, 05:41 AM
Yea, I do not know enough about transport of prisoners. Maybe he could not move to the other side of the van. Maybe he is chained to the seat. I do not know. Would be considered too dangerous? If there was an accident and a fire, the person in custody might not be able to get out unassisted.

I am a proponent that some of the first changes are cognitive. It is possible it heightens primitive language skills. Body language and inflection rather than the abstract syllables. Shakespeare? No, but more than enough to convey, over here, attack, retreat, etc. The humans might even mistake it for crows. :tinfoil: hey, I did not hear any in this episode and I figure you all need a crow fix hors d'oeuvres before Thanksgiving.

tonyhind86
Nov 26th, 2013, 06:21 AM
and when was the last time anyone actually saw TOWTM? during the battle at the Colony?
i find that a bit suspicious.... i think we're going to see another appearance soon!

I was expecting a reaction from him after Raydon Labs was burned down, seeing as that was his source of the follistatin supplies that he sent Randy out for. Who knows, perhaps at the end of this chapter, we may get an appearance - and another major cliffhanger to ponder...

Jeebogs
Nov 26th, 2013, 07:16 AM
I'm still saying Randy is a 'good' guy.
Just because it seems he works for Ink doesn't mean he's not trying to lead Michael to the truth. We've seen this Ep that the numbered ones don't play nice with normal zeds, maybe Randy fears for his (undead) life.
Randy is the Zombie resistance.




I'm moving more and more into the camp that Ink knew something was coming and was preparing for it. His not crying out/screaming or otherwise acting terrified that monsters were attacking him adds to that thought. The symbols of his tats or something injected into his system (or a combination of things) some how made him turn differently. My thinking at this point is that it has something to do with chemicals and Roberts' work at Raydon. The ink pens used for the tats had some Roberts special cocktail in them. The tattooing led the cops to kick off another investigation at Raydon, thus the new (and still up) police tape on the office.

I'm thinking that what was in the ink could be the case. What symbols could/would random strangers (albeit turned zombies) recognise? I'm more interested in the idea that Ink had his own cocktail of 'Ink' tattoo'd into him, some kind of pheromone etc that protected him.



"At one point, it looked as if they'd got his arm."

Quite right.
I don't understand why there is a jump to the conclusion that Ink has been turned? Yeah, he seems stronger than any normal man but, um, haven't we been talking (ad nauseam) about performance enhancing drugs and Bill's former workplace?

Also, has anyone thought/suggested that he may be on a course of strong antibiotics (coincidentally the same as the Tinks) - forced on him while in custody - to try and preemptively halt any infection caused by the prison tats? I'm sure the authorities would go out of their way to prevent a killer dying of septicemia before he could be incarcerated.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 26th, 2013, 07:28 AM
So where is Ink?

He need an area as big as the Sport Arena and a Cain Hospital, what else in LA is that big? I going to laugh if he end up in his own tower.

tonyhind86
Nov 26th, 2013, 07:36 AM
So where is Ink?

He need an area as big as the Sport Arena and a Cain Hospital, what else in LA is that big? I going to laugh if he end up in his own tower.

He might just be finalising a few feng-shui ideas.

2792

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 07:58 AM
I don't understand why there is a jump to the conclusion that Ink has been turned? Yeah, he seems stronger than any normal man but, um, haven't we been talking (ad nauseam) about performance enhancing drugs and Bill's former workplace?

Also, has anyone thought/suggested that he may be on a course of strong antibiotics (coincidentally the same as the Tinks) - forced on him while in custody - to try and preemptively halt any infection caused by the prison tats? I'm sure the authorities would go out of their way to prevent a killer dying of septicemia before he could be incarcerated.

Are there any performance enhancing drugs available which let you jump out of the third floor without harm and run like crazy that someone with a rifle has only little chances to shoot him? Do drugs like these allow you to snatch an arrow out of mid-air that was shot at you from a range of a few yards with a professional bow? Do performance drugs allow you to bare-handedly kill a person by ripping a head apart (Paul)?
What I am saying here is this: At least at the point when Ink entered the Tower he was turned. That does not necessarily mean he was turned down in the van at the court. True.

My catch though is a simple one: He "kicked open the door." That's the way Michael describes it in #40-2. Doors of cars and vans are not simply kicked open. This is especially true for prisoner-transport-vehicles, because these usually have reinforced doors, windows and chassis. So "kicking open" a door is kind of a feat. And I have serious doubts that "only" performance enhancing drugs allow someone to achieve this: "kicking open doors". This may be different if the doors are heavily damaged. But if this is true in this particular case, then automatically two questions pop up:

a) why did them zombs stop their attack, when they were so close to reaching "food"?
b) More importantly: Why did Ink not leave the van earlier?

Ok, about a) you could say: Them zombs just wanted to make it easy for their natural born leader to get out of the van; they recognized him as such and so let go of him. (This theory I wouldn't want to support right now; I might, though, if Ink infact has started turning and "smelled" like the zombie-lord so early already ...).
But then b) raises doubts: If Ink already was the zombie-lord at that time, why did he wait to get out of the van so late and not much earlier?

Too bad we have some facts, and yet too little information to make a final estimate. Any theory so far mentioned seems to be solid and still has some "lackings" as well. The theory I enjoy so much is the one telling "us" that Ink was wounded by the three biters, then he mutated within 30 minutes to become strong enough to blast open the van. Too bad we don't know what has happened between 10:42 and 11:12 - so in the 30-minute gap. Did Ink attempt to pry open the door several times? Were there other zombs at the van and die they "try" anything??? This would help "us" understand the situation a lot better, I guess ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Gnex
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:11 AM
Somebody needs to give CJ a swift kick in the backside!!!! The pity train left 2 seasons ago!!! :squint:

tonyhind86
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:13 AM
Are there any performance enhancing drugs available which let you jump out of the third floor without harm and run like crazy that someone with a rifle has only little chances to shoot him? Do drugs like these allow you to snatch an arrow out of mid-air that was shot at you from a range of a few yards with a professional bow? Do performance drugs allow you to bare-handedly kill a person by ripping a head apart (Paul)?

Super-soldier serum from the Marvel comics? :cool:

Until the third part of this chapter is released (6 days and counting...), we really have no idea about Ink's status and the circumstances of his release from the van. I agree with Liam about the reinforced doors - performance enhancing drugs probably wouldn't allow them to just be kicked open. For me, the main question at this point is "what was he doing at the lab before his arrest?". Hopefully this question will be answered soon because it's driving me crackers!

scbubba
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:15 AM
STORY TIME!

I remembered one of the other things I thought of.
"what if"

bill Roberts is paranoid schizophrenic. while this typically does not manifest itself with visual hallucinations, what if at the moment of turning(or NOT turning) he had his entire mental state snap? by this I mean the biters attacking him became normal people rescuing him? all the normal people fleeing the scene became biters fleeing the scene? what if by creating the "little ones" and behemoths he is simply trying to gain an advantage over the enemy/ us as biters he believes we are? what if all the crazy ass symbols he draws/ tattoos are what he interprets as the language he and his "normal people" speak? his master call that he sends out is simply his normal voice(to his ears at least)and the scary part is...what if hes right?? the entire idea is far too interesting (and far too plausible) to rule out. the scene with the two biters at the end of this episode made me start to question just what is in fact real and what isn't. itll be interesting to see where this goes from here.

I had similar thoughts before - but about zombies in general and not Ink directly. Can't find where I originally posted it, but here is one of the animated shorts that were made to companion the "I Am Legend" movie. This one is by Orson Scott Card and deals with (sort of) the scenario you are talking about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bH2qmXSOJQ

Gnex
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:31 AM
I have to say that Kelly is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters, hated her in season 1 but she is slowly winning me over week after week...... Now don't go killing her KC!!! :p

scbubba
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:49 AM
Reading Liam and 7odd posting on the spread rate in LA got me thinking: why do we assume that it spread evenly in a circle from Ground Zero (or an area around GZ)?

We KNOW it spreads when a biter turns another person. We assume that the Haze is an area effect phenomenon that can turn people. What we actually know is that there were a lot of dead bodies at GZ when Saul and Victor went. The Haze was there when they were and they didn't SEE any biters in the area. The effects of the Haze (coughing, feeling sick) have been experienced by people near GZ on multiple occasions. Victor was able to breathe normally with no perceived effect at GZ when the Haze was not present. CJ sent people to GZ who experienced the typical Haze reactions. One person MAY HAVE been turned by contact with the Haze. Little One #7 was able to operate, at least for some amount of time, within the Haze.

So, is the Haze the cause of zombies? Can normal biters tolerate it themselves? What about Little Ones and/or Ink? Obviously it has something to do with the zombie stuff but damned if I know what it is at the moment.... :mad:

Anyway, back to the spread. We have, at the fastest, people turning 10 miles from GZ in about 30 minutes. At the slowest, assuming 7odd's much wider circle of GZ to be 5 miles, we have people turning 5 miles from the origination point in under an hour. The first assumes that normal biters managed to move at 20 miles per hour, on average since they may have stopped for a snack, during that time frame. In 2005, the record for fastest 10 mile run (by a human) was set at just under 45 min so it would be doable by a zombie, I guess.

But I seem to recall that the early biters (as witnessed by Michael, Saul, and Angel on ZDay) were not moving at those speeds. So, I'm thinking that we had something hit a larger area of LA, centered at Inglewood, and turn a bunch of people simultaneously to get the propagation speed we have reported.

Maybe that means that the Haze at GZ is dying down. The first occurrence was a big blast and no that the pressure has been released, and continues to be released over time, it's much smaller and more localized....

Anyway, I'm real interested in finding out what's in those air samples Tanya got and what that might mean for physiological changes in her and Saul....

Gnex
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:50 AM
I'm curious about the rumbling at Ground Zero...... From what I am seeing Inglewood to Lynnwood is somewhere around 6-8 miles????

That seems very close for the group Tanya radios to not be able hear/feel anything that they felt????

So whatever is happening in Inglewood is extremely controlled???

tonyhind86
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:52 AM
I'm curious about the rumbling at Ground Zero...... From what I am seeing Inglewood to Lynnwood is somewhere around 6-8 miles????

That seems very close for the group Tanya radios to not be able hear/feel anything that they felt????

So whatever is happening in Inglewood is extremely controlled???

That's assuming it was an earthquake. Perhaps an underground explosion?

Bullethead
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:53 AM
Don't forget scubba, somehow these things got to HI...the whole thing may not have started at Ink-lewood after all and this is just a rare coincidence.

Jeebogs
Nov 26th, 2013, 08:54 AM
Are there any performance enhancing drugs available which let you jump out of the third floor without harm and run like crazy that someone with a rifle has only little chances to shoot him? Do drugs like these allow you to snatch an arrow out of mid-air that was shot at you from a range of a few yards with a professional bow? Do performance drugs allow you to bare-handedly kill a person by ripping a head apart (Paul)?!
Liam

So we're only willing to suspend our disbelief with regard to the simultaneous worldwide zombie apocalypse, chemically enhanced zombies/genetically enhanced zombies, a mystical toxic 'haze' periodically emanating from cracks in the ground but in no way are we allowed to postulate that a mad scientist could have created a PED that would allow any of what you mention because we have no real world example of one.

Okay.

I'm not saying that it IS or WAS a PED, but what I am saying is that we really don't have a concrete reason to think Ink has or hasn't been turned. It could be either.

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:24 AM
I'm not saying that it IS or WAS a PED, but what I am saying is that we really don't have a concrete reason to think Ink has or hasn't been turned. It could be either.

Exactly.

Since the whole WA show very often tries to remain within "reasonable" boundaries of logic and likelihood (as much as this is possible in a zombie-story) I'd rather stick with those ideas which seem to be more reasonable. Speaking in favor of the probability that Ink is the evil mastermind that kickstarted the zombocalypse and even made it possible that zombs "rescued" him and he himself was not a zomb until some miraculous time in the past, is speaking in favor of something that - I agree - could be. But this would be something, too, which to me seems less likely based on what we actually "know" from the WA-verse so far. Maybe this is what Kc tries to achieve - mislead the audience to give a huge surprise in the end; but my personal perception has proven me several times over the last year that the "simple" questions and answers more often pinpoint what's going on here. :)

Really, I mean no offense here; and I'd be happy to be proven wrong, 'cause that would be proof for an even better way of storytelling by Kc ... So, maybe you or others are much closer to what "really" has happened ... :yay:

Best wishes!
Liam

Cabbage Patch
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:29 AM
Mh ... So: Inglewood under the Haze produced the first wave of zombies, which then more or less evenly moved into several directions simultaneously - still 10mi per half-an-hour to an hour until they reach Compton, Santa Monica, the Court and other locations "nearby". Gardena is weird, 'cause the first zombs appearing there were reported at about 10am, which is before any other location ...

Don't forget that LA has an extensive public transit system with busses, light rail and subway trains. A single zombie could board a bus or train in Inglewood only to see a vehicle load get off in Santa Monica or downtown. And let's not forget the potential impact of slow turners racing away from ground zero in their cars. I think a good general rule is that "In LA nobody walks", so we can't assume that the infection would expand at walking speeds.

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:31 AM
I'm curious about the rumbling at Ground Zero...... From what I am seeing Inglewood to Lynnwood is somewhere around 6-8 miles????

That seems very close for the group Tanya radios to not be able hear/feel anything that they felt????

So whatever is happening in Inglewood is extremely controlled???

According to Google-Fu's maps Ink-lwood and Lynnwood are about 10mi apart ...

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:33 AM
Don't forget that LA has an extensive public transit system with busses, light rail and subway trains. A single zombie could board a bus or train in Inglewood only to see a vehicle load get off in Santa Monica or downtown. And let's not forget the potential impact of slow turners racing away from ground zero in their cars. I think a good general rule is that "In LA nobody walks", so we can't assume that the infection would expand at walking speeds.

Ah, I see. Haven't thought about this. Well, the lack of big cities in my region, I guess ... ;)

Cabbage Patch
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:34 AM
...what if...bill Roberts is paranoid schizophrenic. while this typically does not manifest itself with visual hallucinations, what if at the moment of turning(or NOT turning) he had his entire mental state snap? by this I mean the biters attacking him became normal people rescuing him? all the normal people fleeing the scene became biters fleeing the scene? what if by creating the "little ones" and behemoths he is simply trying to gain an advantage over the enemy/ us as biters he believes we are? what if all the crazy ass symbols he draws/ tattoos are what he interprets as the language he and his "normal people" speak? his master call that he sends out is simply his normal voice(to his ears at least)and the scary part is...what if hes right?? the entire idea is far too interesting (and far too plausible) to rule out. the scene with the two biters at the end of this episode made me start to question just what is in fact real and what isn't. itll be interesting to see where this goes from here.

The scene with Bill Roberts at the courthouse reminds me of the situation where the zombies enter Dunbar Apartments and Duncan/Skittles has his psychotic break. Maybe the zombies at the courthouse stopped attacking Roberts because they have a hard-wired aversion to interacting with crazy people.

Grognaurd
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:39 AM
The scene with Bill Roberts at the courthouse reminds me of the situation where the zombies enter Dunbar Apartments and Duncan/Skittles has his psychotic break. Maybe the zombies at the courthouse stopped attacking Roberts because they have a hard-wired aversion to interacting with crazy people.

Like it

Toss in "Leave her" by Ink and something like come here, you do not want to have another break down by Sean, both said to CJ. The Sean statement has added weight given the first part of this weeks episode.

Frack, I fat fingered poor CP..

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 26th, 2013, 09:54 AM
I really miss the episodic posting by Lizzy. Come on, Little Miss Wabbly - where are you? It is not the same without you anymore.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:03 AM
I really miss the episodic posting by Lizzy. Come on, Little Miss Wabbly - where are you? It is not the same without you anymore.

Careful, last time we heard from her she was mend the guntruck back in to one piece. By now she may have build herself a Power Loader exo-suit.

scbubba
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:06 AM
Don't forget scubba, somehow these things got to HI...the whole thing may not have started at Ink-lewood after all and this is just a rare coincidence.

I'm not saying that Inglewood is the center of all things Zday. Just that it is probably the center (aka Ground Zero) for the LA area. I subscribe to the near-worldwide, almost simultaneous occurrence of Zday. Col Kimmett breaks that down for us pretty well when he briefs Michael at Fort Irwin.

My analysis was purely about the LA area and the propagation from the Ground Zero area.

scbubba
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:18 AM
The scene with Bill Roberts at the courthouse reminds me of the situation where the zombies enter Dunbar Apartments and Duncan/Skittles has his psychotic break. Maybe the zombies at the courthouse stopped attacking Roberts because they have a hard-wired aversion to interacting with crazy people.

I posted it somewhere before but can't find it right now - given Sean's "breakdown" comment to CJ and given how quick and complete Duncan/Skittles' collapse was, what if they both had previously enjoyed the hospitality of the special mental clinic at Cain Hospital? They may have each encountered Bill Roberts pre-tattoos (maybe he even had hair then). They don't recognize him directly but he might have recognized them. That could have triggered something in him (what?) to leave them alone.

Going off the reservation with my :tinfoil: for the moment - what if everyone that was at Cain during some period had some sort of drug/chemical introduced to their bodies (as meds, food, etc) that somehow signals the zombies or makes them "special" in some way? We know that Skittles was hiding from all the biters, normal and special, successfully even though we saw how human sweat could attract normal biters from a looooong way off. How was he able to do this? I don't think we have seen/heard the last of our pal Skittles.... :squint:

Gnex
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:37 AM
That's assuming it was an earthquake. Perhaps an underground explosion?

Yeah, I'm not assuming it was an earthquake.... I am also assuming that it is some kind of explosion.

But, the area seems to be shaking pretty violently near Saul and Tanya, it would stand to reason that you would be able to feel it off in the distance.

I live about 10-15 miles from a military base and when they are testing weaponry you can hear it as well as feel the ground shake depending on what they are firing.......

beedubu2
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:50 AM
Ok, first time poster here, go easy on me. I have a few theories here, also!
Re: Tonya and Saul- I think the K18 levels she's reading are actually the bodies natural antigens fighting off the infection. This is why they number got higher and higher in step with the stage of the turning process. I believe those two have natural immunity, and their blood could create a serum to save others, or a vaccine. Not sure if it could be used in some way as a weapon against the zombies, though.

Re: Inks- With his mental disorder and high intelligence, it seems to me that he created the chemical catalyst that's going on under Inglewood. It also seems obvious to me that the "haze" is what turned the original zombies. Inks is operating under mad scientist rules right now, shaping the evolution of this new creature. My take? He is sending the normals to his old lab for his chemicals, so he can continue altering the zombie population for whatever his grand scheme is.

I have some more stuff too, but that's it for now....

Gnex
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:56 AM
Ok, first time poster here, go easy on me. I have a few theories here, also!
Re: Tonya and Saul- I think the K18 levels she's reading are actually the bodies natural antigens fighting off the infection. This is why they number got higher and higher in step with the stage of the turning process. I believe those two have natural immunity, and their blood could create a serum to save others, or a vaccine. Not sure if it could be used in some way as a weapon against the zombies, though.

Re: Inks- With his mental disorder and high intelligence, it seems to me that he created the chemical catalyst that's going on under Inglewood. It also seems obvious to me that the "haze" is what turned the original zombies. Inks is operating under mad scientist rules right now, shaping the evolution of this new creature. My take? He is sending the normals to his old lab for his chemicals, so he can continue altering the zombie population for whatever his grand scheme is.


I have some more stuff too, but that's it for now....


Welcome!!!! :excited:

#1 - interesting idea..... I like that possibilty. My only concern would be that Tanya makes it seem like her and Sauls levels are continually rising(slowly but continually going up). So does that mean that at some point Saul and Tanya are going to turn??? or at some point their levels become sooo elevated because they are slowly getting close to being fully immune???

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 12:04 PM
Ok, first time poster here, go easy on me. I have a few theories here, also!

Hello zombiefood!


I have some more stuff too, but that's it for now....

Keep it rolling! Am curious about your thoughts. Move on ... !

kent17
Nov 26th, 2013, 01:57 PM
Re: Tonya and Saul- I think the K18 levels she's reading are actually the bodies natural antigens fighting off the infection. This is why they number got higher and higher in step with the stage of the turning process. I believe those two have natural immunity, and their blood could create a serum to save others, or a vaccine. Not sure if it could be used in some way as a weapon against the zombies, though.


I was thinking something along these lines too. What if they are not "naturally" immune, but their exposure was at such a low amount/level that the body is able to fight it off. Maybe this will be a step towards a vaccine.

I'm surprised Michael doesn't seem concerned with the lack of zombies, where are they? Earlier in the story when bodies were disappearing everyone wanted to know where they were going, and thus we found the arena.

dontkillburt
Nov 26th, 2013, 02:57 PM
But in the real world, cracks dont just open up in LA and spew poisonous gas. Its too coincidental

Hmmm...Let's take a look at this…"Radon" gas is naturally occurring colorless (not green), tasteless gas. But in addition to these mundane qualities, it also has the property of being very radioactive. And that is to the point to where it is supposedly the second highest cause of lung cancer in the U.S., only behind cigarette smoking. That would make it numero uno on you non-smokers list (probably just in front of "second hand smoking"). That said, and having now lived through a shitload of earthquakes here in L.A. (and yes, Ive have seen enough Hollywood movies to stay away from those open cracks in the earth), there must be a link between radon gas, Radon Labs and Radon, the private from M.A.S.H., aka Michael Cross.

.

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 03:34 PM
Talk of the outbreak patterns got me to thinking. And I'll try this later is no one else does, but I'm at work for the evening.

could we plug in the pattern of outbreak into the Fibonacci sequence? Basically start in Inglewood and make a golden spiral...im not sure if it works...but might be worth checking.

Elisa
Nov 26th, 2013, 04:59 PM
Hmmm...Let's take a look at this…"Radon" gas is naturally occurring colorless (not green), tasteless gas. But in addition to these mundane qualities, it also has the property of being very radioactive. And that is to the point to where it is supposedly the second highest cause of lung cancer in the U.S., only behind cigarette smoking. That would make it numero uno on you non-smokers list (probably just in front of "second hand smoking"). That said, and having now lived through a shitload of earthquakes here in L.A. (and yes, Ive have seen enough Hollywood movies to stay away from those open cracks in the earth), there must be a link between radon gas, Radon Labs and Radon, the private from M.A.S.H., aka Michael Cross.

.



Bwahahaha Michael Cross = Radon :D

I still think Ink and his Inklets are living large somewhere and that they are using underground subway tunnels or what have you to get to their Zombie safe house in Inglewood aka GZ. I am an LA native and it is a big city sometimes people not very far can't hear or feel earthquakes or noises. That said this is controlled chaos and explosions. #teamInk :)

PS Maybe Saul and Tanya were infected by special ones aka smart ones aka slow turners. Had Tommy survived maybe he woulda been Inklet no 17??

Red Shirt
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:04 PM
But the two biggest points.. Tanya and Saul can breath the haze along with the little ones and Ink was turned. But still leaves questions on why the normal's acted the way they did..

Here's a good question: Do you think that the haze might have a cumulative dosing effect like radiation does? Meaning that Victor might be in a bit of trouble since this is his second exposure to the gas.


We have seen hundreds of biters, not thousands and even if it was thousands, they are not going to eat millions. That is why I keep going to the ant theory, most of the colony is underground. Sigh, but that just begs the question where did they go underground.

I have thought of this before and it just occurred to me: Maybe the tunnels of the Metro LA Mass Transit? Go to the Fan Made Google Map of LA (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?vps=7&jsv=323a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=205839747454025781335.00049eca4f8a839e63fc3) and turn on the transit filter... the Red (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Line_%28Los_Angeles_Metro%29) and Purple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Line_%28Los_Angeles_Metro%29) lines (subways) kinda run right through the old Tower area stomping grounds. In fact, the Red line runs from downtown, all the way out to North Hollwood. Other than the Van Nuys, nothing up there was even mentioned, much less gone to.
(I don't recall, but did they go to Van Nuys? Or was it just mentioned by Burt?)

Question for the characters in the show inspired by playing with the fan map: Michael, what's the SITREP on Edwards AFB? I just realized that it's almost spittin' distance over the mountains of the Angeles National forest. Did Irwin scavenging missions pick it clean? 29 Palms is probably out of the question as it seems to be further than Yermo and uncomfortably close to the Irwin Crater... If the situation is as dire as CJ is making it out to be, It may be time to surreptitiously start asking for two man volunteer team to go on long duration scouting missions that they might not return from.


The courthouse was cool. A little creepy without being over the top. Learned that Kelly was in probate and not criminal law. That would probably mean that if she has any legal involvement with Ink pre-Zday, it might be in the execution of the estate of one or more of his victims (his wife, her lover, or the rest of the family). I think there isn't a pre-Z tie for them, though...

Could be another tiny hint. If "The Families" turn out to be the old DEEP pocketed & blue blooded type... they might have the Probate equivalent of a "frequent flier" card. Meaning that Kelly just might have another answer if the right pieces get put together.


I think this assumption was made during the first visit to Ground Zero by Saul and Victor. Saul and Victor did not see any zombies or anything living for that matter, so I think that lead to the thoughts that nothing human/animal/zombie could be in the haze.

I seem to recall that it was killing the trees too.


EDIT. I should also include the Apocolyptic Cult. I have had it for a while. It is just hard to believe that the Earth burped corpse gas at so many different places about the same time.

I just realized that there might be a mechanism by which the simultaneous release could be explained: Venusian Geology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Venus#Global_resurfacing_event). In summary, due to the build up of heat beneath the surface due to a lack of active tectonics, the Venus is theorized to have undergone a massive planet wide volcanic eruption that resurfaced the whole planet 300-500 million years ago. Granted, the end result was vastly different, but it shows that massive planetary scale events are possible.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:22 PM
Bwahahaha Michael Cross = Radon :D

I still think Ink and his Inklets are living large somewhere and that they are using underground subway tunnels or what have you to get to their Zombie safe house in Inglewood aka GZ. I am an LA native and it is a big city sometimes people not very far can't hear or feel earthquakes or noises. That said this is controlled chaos and explosions. #teamInk :)


I'm curious if Micheal and co. will look for Bill Robert's house. Surely he's familiar with that place. I also wonder if he's a cannibal too. If he's not turned completely then eating people is just plain gross. Yuck!

Witch_Doctor
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:44 PM
Talk of the outbreak patterns got me to thinking. And I'll try this later is no one else does, but I'm at work for the evening.

could we plug in the pattern of outbreak into the Fibonacci sequence? Basically start in Inglewood and make a golden spiral...im not sure if it works...but might be worth checking.

eh, I don't see it, but still a good idea. http://i.imgur.com/tagGQ.jpg

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Map

LiamKerrington
Nov 26th, 2013, 10:54 PM
Talk of the outbreak patterns got me to thinking. And I'll try this later is no one else does, but I'm at work for the evening.

could we plug in the pattern of outbreak into the Fibonacci sequence? Basically start in Inglewood and make a golden spiral...im not sure if it works...but might be worth checking.

Now, that would be interesting and would help predicting things - or at least "understanding" things better ...

But the map, which WD linked, is kind of "simplifying", 'cause it makes no difference between Gardena, Compton, and Santa Monica. According to the color-coding all these locations were hit at the same time; but Gardena - based on our logs-information - was probably hit earlier ... *hmpf*

Best wishes!
Liam

Witch_Doctor
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:01 PM
Now, that would be interesting and would help predicting things - or at least "understanding" things better ...

But the map, which WD linked, is kind of "simplifying", 'cause it makes no difference between Gardena, Compton, and Santa Monica. According to the color-coding all these locations were hit at the same time; but Gardena - based on our logs-information - was probably hit earlier ... *hmpf*

Best wishes!
Liam

I remember Micheal telling Tommy that it had a ripple pattern. Probably more of an Inverse Square pattern than Fibonacci. But, like LiamKerrington says, some of the times on the map might be off. One looks like an official WA map, the other (heat map) is fan-made.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:20 PM
I'm curious if Micheal and co. will look for Bill Robert's house. Surely he's familiar with that place. I also wonder if he's a cannibal too. If he's not turned completely then eating people is just plain gross. Yuck!

Have we ever seen him eat human flesh? To me, he is just a tattooed man who has solved his marriage issues ... differently.

7oddisdead
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:40 PM
I remember Micheal telling Tommy that it had a ripple pattern. Probably more of an Inverse Square pattern than Fibonacci. But, like LiamKerrington says, some of the times on the map might be off. One looks like an official WA map, the other (heat map) is fan-made.

I like the idea of the inverse square. I think the thing to keep in mind when thinking of "how could it spread so fast?" is exponential growth...as it spreads, the time it takes to reach other areas should decrease. (think the larger the number of turned, the less time it takes for them to turn others, etc) same thing happened at boulder, like as not.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 27th, 2013, 07:57 AM
I like the idea of the inverse square. I think the thing to keep in mind when thinking of "how could it spread so fast?" is exponential growth...as it spreads, the time it takes to reach other areas should decrease. (think the larger the number of turned, the less time it takes for them to turn others, etc) same thing happened at boulder, like as not.

What is interesting is the heat map. http://i.imgur.com/tagGQ.jpg Notice the bubbles in the East and the South East. The infection slows down in those directions, or they're two smaller bubbles.

Gnex
Nov 27th, 2013, 08:53 AM
Ok I just relistened to this episode......

When they are watching the video of Ink getting bit...... Kelly says that the zombies just all of a sudden stopped.

Now we already know that Tanya was bitten by not that deep, because she stopped the zombie before it got too deep.......... and then we know Saul was possibly infected from the gunshot but not an actual bite.........

So the Question/Thought........ Is a Bite not just a Bite??? Are there multiple stages to an actual bite?? Seems to me that the Zombie bites are almost like snake bites..... Most people are getting a full dose of whatever is causing them to change........ but some are quick enough or lucky enough to only get a small dose and either become slow turners.... or whatever we want to call Saul/Tanya/Ink......

Another thought bouncing off this idea..... If Tanya and Saul are slowly fighting off the infection internally..... is there something in their blood that could be given to everyone as a sort of cure?

Footbutt
Nov 27th, 2013, 09:01 AM
Another thought bouncing off this idea..... If Tanya and Saul are slowly fighting off the infection internally..... is there something in their blood that could be given to everyone as a sort of cure?

the only way i could see that happening is a last-ditch effort to save someone that was just bit. i couldn't see anyone volunteering for an injection of Saul or Tanya's blood.

sidenote:
does Tanya sound a bit... unstable to anyone else?
when she panics, she really panics.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 27th, 2013, 10:09 AM
sidenote:
does Tanya sound a bit... unstable to anyone else?
when she panics, she really panics.

YES!!! And I love it. Not because I'm some sick twisted sadist, but because it finally gives her character some depth. She no longer some grumpy Mrs. Spock.

Footbutt
Nov 27th, 2013, 10:13 AM
YES!!! And I love it. Not because I'm some sick twisted sadist, but because it finally gives her character some depth. She no longer some grumpy Mrs. Spock.

yeah, i can see that. she also has a new(er) perspective on her remaining time. She seems very fatalistic and yet is fighting ever step of the way. if she doesn't turn (eventually) i feel she'll sacrifice herself... somehow.

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 12:03 PM
So basically from what I am gathering.....

#1) Ink knew something was going to happen and was prepared for it.

#2) Ink knew that he could be bitten and would be able to control the others.

#3) Puck had a good idea.

#4) Pegs needs to keep her eye on Michael and Kelly.

I am curious how you came to the conclusions for #1 and #2? They might be true, but I am not seeing either of those from what we have so far

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 12:28 PM
The fact that the biters stayed outside of the van for THIRTY minutes on the day of the outbreak says that something out of the ordinary was happening. People had to be running in every direction, and these two are never distracted from trying to get in to get Roberts.

Just like with the DVR early on, these parts are tough because they fast forwarded so we don't know what actually happened during that 30 minutes. Did they just stand there? Did they leave and were called back? Who knows?

Elisa
Nov 27th, 2013, 12:29 PM
the only way i could see that happening is a last-ditch effort to save someone that was just bit. i couldn't see anyone volunteering for an injection of Saul or Tanya's blood.

sidenote:
does Tanya sound a bit... unstable to anyone else?
when she panics, she really panics.

Tanya is a vet, not a survivalist like the rest. I doubt she had to fight, run and face the zeds like most of the others, plus she ain't a young pup. Give her a break :)

Verse
Nov 27th, 2013, 02:07 PM
I think Ink was turned. Unless we get a secret Ink Journal that they find, odds are that we will never have 100% no shadow of a doubt proof. I just find it odd that if he wasn't turned and such, why did he wait for 30 min before he got out? If he knew he could control them before hand, as soon as the screaming stopped he would have hopped out and went "Awesome. Lets go" not wait for 30 min and kick open a door. Even if it were locked we know he control them with verbal commands at times. He told them to stop with CJ. He could have went "Open the Dang door". Instead he waited. My guess is that he had a turning period. Slowish. That 30 min was him turning.

Side note: Any thoughts of Wind? Like the Haze traveling via the wind? No clue of how windy it is around those areas. Maybe that is how it moved so fast (If that is what turned ppl). After a certain distance it was just not thick enough. Like smoke from a fire.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 27th, 2013, 02:58 PM
I think Ink was turned. Unless we get a secret Ink Journal that they find, odds are that we will never have 100% no shadow of a doubt proof. I just find it odd that if he wasn't turned and such, why did he wait for 30 min before he got out? If he knew he could control them before hand, as soon as the screaming stopped he would have hopped out and went "Awesome. Lets go" not wait for 30 min and kick open a door. Even if it were locked we know he control them with verbal commands at times. He told them to stop with CJ. He could have went "Open the Dang door". Instead he waited. My guess is that he had a turning period. Slowish. That 30 min was him turning.

Side note: Any thoughts of Wind? Like the Haze traveling via the wind? No clue of how windy it is around those areas. Maybe that is how it moved so fast (If that is what turned ppl). After a certain distance it was just not thick enough. Like smoke from a fire.

I think the 30 mins was the result of the meds he was on keep him calm. If you remember Tommy once he turned he was aggressive and every creatures we have come in contact with is the same. We know that Ink is different as well as every other smart one we have observe.

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 03:09 PM
Have we ever seen him eat human flesh? To me, he is just a tattooed man who has solved his marriage issues ... differently.

Wasn't he spotted in the arena 'playing' with his food?

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 03:11 PM
I think the 30 mins was the result of the meds he was on keep him calm. If you remember Tommy once he turned he was in aggressive and every creatures we have come in contact with is the same. We know that Ink is different as well as every other smart one we have observe.

I mentioned this before in another thread. I personally think this is why he is so different from the rest. I think the meds that he was on to keep him calm and keep his psychosis under control is what also keep his turning semi under control and allowed him to keep one foot in the normal human world with some of his memories and smarts intact.

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 03:21 PM
I like what most everyone is saying. Just had a couple thoughts about CJ. Why is she so stuck on needing power and fuel to keep everything going? As good of a planner as she is and all the resources she accumulated, why hasn't she thought about how people lived long before power and gas? You would think a supply run to a local library for every book you can grab from their how too section would get you info on how to build a windmill to use as a water pump, as well as building a root cellar to store food, a greenhouse to grow food year round (though CA weather is pretty conducive to long growing seasons anyway), building wind turbines for when power would REALLY be needed. Seems like all of the problems she mentions with the exception of ammo and gas for the gun trucks could be easily solved.

Which takes me to point number 2. CJ seems stressed out of her mind, and despite that she is still unwilling to share information easily. Most great leaders have a council, or cabinet of people who help them understand problems and find solutions. Rarely is the head leader the most knowledgable person in the group, they need the smarts of others, and then use their own leadership skills to implement plans. CJ seems to be always missing that council aspect. She wants to be the person who knows everything and always has the answers. Even when Pegs is trying to get inside and help CJ open up, and is offering to help, she basically has to beg CJ to let her help. And her ideas are actually good ones. If CJ would open up to the rest of the Colony (or even a select trusted few) who knows what ideas and plans they would generate?

Grognaurd
Nov 27th, 2013, 03:28 PM
Yup, the difference between Michael's "Datu, fix!" and her micromanagement style is telling.

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 03:45 PM
Even beyond that, Michael would council with Angel, and Saul; sometimes even Burt and Kelly and Pegs. They talked things through. Often times the good idea that was implemented came from someone other than Michael. With CJ she says things like 'I have some ideas but I'm not certain yet' and will go off on her own to make decisions. Or she will say 'This isn't your problem to worry about' like she did to Pegs. She wants to keep everyone else on the outside while she comes up with all the ideas, hashes them out and them makes a decision, but it always seems to be on her own.

And yeah once she has made a decision on the best plan she micromanages like you said, because she has already done all the mental analysis on her own, so in her mind there is only one right way now to make this all work and so she wants to make sure nobody screws up her perfectly devised plan.

Cabbage Patch
Nov 27th, 2013, 04:13 PM
Major police action going on right now in Inglewood, Los Angeles, California. The news is reporting a gun battle, a hostage taking and police reinforcements pouring into the area. No word on riots, earthquakes, explosions, or strange mists forming.

LiamKerrington
Nov 27th, 2013, 04:47 PM
Major police action going on right now in Inglewood, Los Angeles, California. The news is reporting a gun battle, a hostage taking and police reinforcements pouring into the area. No word on riots, earthquakes, explosions, or strange mists forming.

Uh-ohhhhhh!

Would they even tell you about things like this? In order to prevent panic they wouldn't tell anyone more specific stuff ... To quote a famous chick from the WA-verse: "You better start runnin ..."

LiamKerrington
Nov 27th, 2013, 04:51 PM
@Unit9014

I am not so certain about CJ being all alone with her decisions. Yes, I agree in so far as she has no official council or leader-staff or sh*t ... But from what I see she manages the people and allows them to persude aims in their tasks - Datu and Glen may experiment on new devices, Pegs established the Cows, Michael and Soldiers are out on their own doin' their own business (although as of lately this seems to botehr CJ more and more ...). So in a way she heavily relies on specialists.

And yet I agree with you: CJ is very solitary and very much focussed on surviving for her own sake. The idea with the books is something that struck me odd as well. But actually we have no idea what is available at the Colony or if certain books were brought in from Dunbar. And since we had little air-time with CJ during and since the time-jump covering 4 months we actually have little information about how well she performs as "My Little Dictatress" ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Red Shirt
Nov 27th, 2013, 05:07 PM
Talk of the outbreak patterns got me to thinking. And I'll try this later is no one else does, but I'm at work for the evening.

could we plug in the pattern of outbreak into the Fibonacci sequence? Basically start in Inglewood and make a golden spiral...im not sure if it works...but might be worth checking.

Here's something to try with that: Don't just compare the recorded times given in PST, compare the difference in time between the locations as expressed in either minutes and/or seconds. Doing calculations in HH:MM annotation can be confusing and messy, but converting the difference in time to the raw total of minutes may be more revealing. That said, I may just jump into this a bit latter.


Rarely is the head leader the most knowledgable person in the group, they need the smarts of others, and then use their own leadership skills to implement plans.

If you are the smartest one in the room, you are in the wrong room.

Verse
Nov 27th, 2013, 05:12 PM
I think as far as leaders go, both would be screwed. When you have these end of days issues... your only as good as what is going on at the moment. Take Michael. Sets up the Tower. Everyone is living rather well (all things considered). Not a whole lot of issues (Besides.. I no like him). All in All.... people had it pretty damn good at the Tower. Mallers attack and it is "Screw that Guy! He let us get drunk. Replace his butt!" then when Burt took over ppl went dropped him as soon as the Lizzy thing happened. Glenn left to find Michael... but as soon as CJ tossed some ideas to him he was all about screw Michael. As soon as Burt and Riley had a chance they ghosted as well. B/c they wanted Scratch right then and there. Neither leader would give them what they wanted right then... so screw you guys.

As soon as people realize that they have an issue with the water and such they will dump CJ and pick up someone else. They will blame Michael, but when the Biters attack again (and they will. No way Kelly said the Retaliation line and it not come up. If we learned one thing so far is KC doesn't really do throw away lines) and Michael saves them... he will be the Golden Child again. That or they blame Michael for causing the attack. We'll see how that plays out.

Now that the "People are stupid sheep" rant is done.....

Wonder why they have not sent anyone to the fuel depot the Mallers used. I know that they drained some stuff, but one would think that there would be others. If not at that one Depot then some other areas. No way that there is only one fuel Depot in all of LA.

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 06:52 PM
@Unit9014

I am not so certain about CJ being all alone with her decisions. Yes, I agree in so far as she has no official council or leader-staff or sh*t ... But from what I see she manages the people and allows them to persude aims in their tasks - Datu and Glen may experiment on new devices, Pegs established the Cows, Michael and Soldiers are out on their own doin' their own business (although as of lately this seems to botehr CJ more and more ...). So in a way she heavily relies on specialists.

And yet I agree with you: CJ is very solitary and very much focussed on surviving for her own sake. The idea with the books is something that struck me odd as well. But actually we have no idea what is available at the Colony or if certain books were brought in from Dunbar. And since we had little air-time with CJ during and since the time-jump covering 4 months we actually have little information about how well she performs as "My Little Dictatress" ...

Best wishes!
Liam

The only thing I can say about this that semi supports my observation is that Datu and Glenn were working on their experiment behind closed doors. Datu didn't want to tell CJ about it because she would get mad and Glenn agreed with that.

CJ sounded like she was making a snide comment about the cows and how they better be worth it for as much trouble it was to get them. Like she tried to say no to getting them but probably got overruled by the majority somehow (similar to what happened to Burt when Michael, Pegs and Kelly first took off to find a doctor and found the colony)

And again CJ is trying to wrangle Michael in but doesn't really have the power to do so.

In all those examples she is not 'letting' people persuade aims, I think in all of those she is just not powerful enough to stop it or flat out doesn't know about it at this point.

For the books I guess I am just making an assumption on them not considering that, but I make that assumption because it sounds like they aren't pursuing the things I mentioned. You would think if they went through the trouble of getting the books that teach how it is done they would be pursuing the options. But maybe the library was raided, maybe it was burned, maybe they couldn't find the books they needed. Who knows?

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 07:19 PM
I think as far as leaders go, both would be screwed. When you have these end of days issues... your only as good as what is going on at the moment. Take Michael. Sets up the Tower. Everyone is living rather well (all things considered). Not a whole lot of issues (Besides.. I no like him). All in All.... people had it pretty damn good at the Tower. Mallers attack and it is "Screw that Guy! He let us get drunk. Replace his butt!" then when Burt took over ppl went dropped him as soon as the Lizzy thing happened. Glenn left to find Michael... but as soon as CJ tossed some ideas to him he was all about screw Michael. As soon as Burt and Riley had a chance they ghosted as well. B/c they wanted Scratch right then and there. Neither leader would give them what they wanted right then... so screw you guys. As soon as people realize that they have an issue with the water and such they will dump CJ and pick up someone else. They will blame Michael, but when the Biters attack again (and they will. No way Kelly said the Retaliation line and it not come up. If we learned one thing so far is KC doesn't really do throw away lines) and Michael saves them... he will be the Golden Child again. That or they blame Michael for causing the attack. We'll see how that plays out. Now that the "People are stupid sheep" rant is done..... Wonder why they have not sent anyone to the fuel depot the Mallers used. I know that they drained some stuff, but one would think that there would be others. If not at that one Depot then some other areas. No way that there is only one fuel Depot in all of LA. Agreed that as a leader, no matter your style, skill or abilities, you are screwed when something goes wrong. As they say, 'The buck stops here'. But the style of CJ seems to put her under added stress of feeling like it's all on her shoulders, and the community as a whole suffers because you may not get to take advantage of the collective knowledge and ideas of the whole group. Thinking about the Mallers fuel depot, isn't that what they used to attack the Arena? I imagine it is close to being drained if not completely drained. And like CJ mentions, what is left is probably going bad. Most fuel only have a shelf life of 6 months before you have to deal with oxidization, and water contamination. Even with stabilizers added it starts breaking down between a year and 18 months, so I think we are getting there. I can't remember exactly how far in we are at this point.

scbubba
Nov 27th, 2013, 09:50 PM
All this talk about CJ.... Here's something I posted in another thread on the subject of her pity party


I think we may be seeing the "good planning, poor execution" from CJ again. Tis is suddenly a lot harder than she originally planned, things didn't just go her way, she can't come up with the solutions and have everyone jump to do it.

Let's face it, CJ wants to be the smartest person in the room. When others appear that might challenge that premise, she often tries to bully them down. When it becomes apparent that she doesn't have or can't come up with all the answers, she doesn't
T know what to do. Major ego hit! She would rather throw in the towel than have others come up with solutions she didn't think of.

Like you guys are pointing out, there could be all kinds of alternatives other than the ones CJ thinks of. But instead of enlisting other people to brainstorm ideas and come up with other plans, she assumes nobody can solve the problem because she can't.

Bad leadership qualities there.

Working in Software Development in different industries, I've seen this type of person many, many times: project managers, team leads, directors, CEOs. Hell, I almost WAS one of those guys except for a great manager I had early on....

Unit
Nov 27th, 2013, 11:34 PM
Spot on analysis right there!

Storm
Nov 28th, 2013, 01:50 AM
Agreed that as a leader, no matter your style, skill or abilities, you are screwed when something goes wrong. As they say, 'The buck stops here'. But the style of CJ seems to put her under added stress of feeling like it's all on her shoulders, and the community as a whole suffers because you may not get to take advantage of the collective knowledge and ideas of the whole group. Thinking about the Mallers fuel depot, isn't that what they used to attack the Arena? I imagine it is close to being drained if not completely drained. And like CJ mentions, what is left is probably going bad. Most fuel only have a shelf life of 6 months before you have to deal with oxidization, and water contamination. Even with stabilizers added it starts breaking down between a year and 18 months, so I think we are getting there. I can't remember exactly how far in we are at this point.

Outbreak started on May 8th 2009, and we're now around March 4th 2010, so yeah, they're pretty much fucked when it comes to fuel.

tonyhind86
Nov 28th, 2013, 05:22 AM
So it looks like they definitely wont have steak on the menu now...

2795

LiamKerrington
Nov 28th, 2013, 06:53 AM
The only thing I can say about this that semi supports my observation is that Datu and Glenn were working on their experiment behind closed doors. Datu didn't want to tell CJ about it because she would get mad and Glenn agreed with that.

CJ sounded like she was making a snide comment about the cows and how they better be worth it for as much trouble it was to get them. Like she tried to say no to getting them but probably got overruled by the majority somehow (similar to what happened to Burt when Michael, Pegs and Kelly first took off to find a doctor and found the colony)

And again CJ is trying to wrangle Michael in but doesn't really have the power to do so.

In all those examples she is not 'letting' people persuade aims, I think in all of those she is just not powerful enough to stop it or flat out doesn't know about it at this point.

For the books I guess I am just making an assumption on them not considering that, but I make that assumption because it sounds like they aren't pursuing the things I mentioned. You would think if they went through the trouble of getting the books that teach how it is done they would be pursuing the options. But maybe the library was raided, maybe it was burned, maybe they couldn't find the books they needed. Who knows?

Valid and convincing points. In fact as much convincing that I won't stick to what I mentioned before that one. Thanks.

Best wishes!
Liam

Red Shirt
Nov 28th, 2013, 09:31 PM
Snipity-do-dah for clarity:



Thinking about the Mallers fuel depot, isn't that what they used to attack the Arena? I imagine it is close to being drained if not completely drained.
And like CJ mentions, what is left is probably going bad. Most fuel only have a shelf life of 6 months before you have to deal with oxidization, and water contamination. Even with stabilizers added it starts breaking down between a year and 18 months, so I think we are getting there.
I can't remember exactly how far in we are at this point.



Last first: We are coming up on the one year anniversary in the show.

About the fuel depot: A quick look at the Google maps satellite image of the tank farm/fuel depot (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lax&hl=en&ll=33.906967,-118.412318&spn=0.022973,0.042272&sll=42.752811,-71.49671&sspn=0.162603,0.338173&hq=lax&t=h&z=15) shown out near the Maller's Mall looks similar to this one, the proposed NOLA Oil Terminal (http://plaqueminesgazette.com/nola-oil-tank-farm-stirs-controversy/), which will have a capacity of 5 million barrels. A "Barrel" in oil trading is 35 gallons, meaning that this one facility has the capacity for 175 million gallons.

(Note: I'm only really comparing the newish looking silver tanks, those other ones may no longer be in use. In 2009, they may have been in use and the capacity of this one site may have been triple the NOLA facility.)
(I say this one site because a quick review of the satellite image for LA showed me that there are at least 20 more tank farms in the city. I stopped counting then. I have no idea what is in them, some of them have to be fuel.)
(Also note that I am being very generous with my "Ballparking.")

Now, the capacity of fuel trailers (of the type you would expect) ranges from 6,000 to 10,000 gallons (http://www.truckpaper.com/list/list.aspx?bcatid=28&catid=64). I believe that Tardust said they needed eight with two backups... for bombs he probably would have used the "big uns." That's only 100,000 gallons. That depot would, at capacity, have filled 17,500 fuel trucks. I doubt they depleted it.

Now, about the shelf life and stability of the fuel... my brief research has shown that the average shelf life is, as others have mentioned here, six to twelve months for both unleaded and diesel fuel. In an unexpectedly accurate use of YMMV (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ymmv), I have found some people reporting that diesel can store longer untreated and when treated can even last for decades!
I also learned that the degradation of diesel isn't necessarily in it's overall potency, it is water contamination, algae growth (yes, algae) sedimentation and other crud in the fuel. When you use untreated old fuel, the problem arises when the fuel/water separator and fuel filters can't keep up with the flow required to keep the engine running. If they were to use old fuel, if it is pre-treated before use, it will probably be OK.
Worth noting is that storage life greatly depends on the storage conditions... giant above ground tanks baking in the hot LA sun is hardly optimal.

TL;DR - There should be plenty of fuel in LA if they can just find it. Its shelf life will become an issue soon, but handled properly, it shouldn't be a problem.

Gnex
Nov 29th, 2013, 12:26 AM
We don't need fuel.... We have Datu!!!

The Colony is gonna be running off Wind and Water power before you know it.........

Then after that Datu is going to start working on flying cars like The Jetsons!!!

tonyhind86
Nov 29th, 2013, 01:38 AM
Then after that Datu is going to start working on flying cars like The Jetsons!!!

A flying car with automatic transmission and a door mounted Mata gun ;-)

Unit
Nov 29th, 2013, 12:07 PM
TL;DR - There should be plenty of fuel in LA if they can just find it. Its shelf life will become an issue soon, but handled properly, it shouldn't be a problem.

At this point though we don't know how old the fuel is exactly, could have been sitting for a little while before the Z-Day outbreak. But the breakdown and contamination has already begun. Adding stabilizer to already contaminated fuel will not preserve it in the same way as adding stabilizers to fuel in the beginning to prolong it's life. So it is probably too late to greatly prolong the life of the fuel that is now already 1yr+ old. They can probably still use it for some time even though it is not as volatile and likely already has water contamination but they are likely to encounter issues with engines stalling and oxidization buildup gumming up the motors. They will ruin their motors in the process of using contaminated fuel. The time to find alternative power sources has passed, better get on it

Verse
Nov 29th, 2013, 12:11 PM
I am shocked CJ let it get to this point. She said they have like a week. A freaking week. The person that has a castle like fortress in Dunbar... 16ish safe houses....groves of fruit trees... and she waits till they have a week left to go "Ah shit. We're screwed" Granted she said she has looked at all the other options and didn't see anything.

Guess it just proves what everyone has pointed out so far. She has known it was getting real bad, but kept it to herself hoping to find an answer.

I just don't see her sticking around when it starts to fall. She is not a "Go down with the ship" type of person from what I have seen.

tonyhind86
Nov 29th, 2013, 12:20 PM
I wonder, if the situation does not improve and they do lose power, if Ink and the others stage another attack on the Colony. We haven't seen an appearance from him since the last attack, or seen his reaction after Raydon burned down. Somehow I can see Michael's leadership restored, with Burt and Riley staging a glorious comeback and their story being told in flashback form.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 29th, 2013, 07:46 PM
When CJ says that she ran through several scenarios, I can't help but to wonder if she is the type that would nix an idea without a 100% certain positive outcome. We've discussed on the forum a number of times how she plans things to the most minute detail but doesn't do well when events deviate from her plans. Everything is black/white for her. No in between, no shades of gray.

Unit
Nov 29th, 2013, 08:20 PM
I was thinking about her comment on if people left it might be easier. I am wondering if she is going to keep Datu around helping to come up with a solution to the water problem and pegs around to help with the garden and then when she feels things are set up enough to where she feels like she can maintain; then she will start pushing more people out to Dunbar and kinda leave them to fend for themselves? I'm not certain she would ever do that but I think the fact that she mentioned it means she is thinking about it and considering her options in that regard.

Robzombie
Nov 29th, 2013, 09:53 PM
I think CJ weighs all options and simply works towards the best one...she's calculated and chances nothing. She works towards the best option and if she's not 100% sure that its the way to go, then she doesn't commit. The fact that no scenario to her is 100% just shows that she's a bit overwhelmed with the scope of things and has no clear direction, it's become complicated. So I think that it makes sense that we hear the conversation that we did with Pegs. Eventually I think this will help her understand that she will have to help Michael more in the pursuit of ending the zombie threat once and for all. Being backed into a corner with the loss of food, water, power, ammo, and whatever else, she will need to come to Michaels side of thinking and go on the offensive. I think that's the whole purpose of the CJ's stuff lately...to make sense of why she needs to and will realise what needs to happen because in the long run, her plan of sustenance will not work.

Unit
Nov 29th, 2013, 11:46 PM
I don't know, I kinda think the opposite will happen. I think CJ will try and bring Michael to her side of thinking. She will try and get him to think that chasing the zombies is a waste of what little resources the colony has; and especially the brains and manpower in his crew would be better served trying to solve the problems with ammo, food and water. I doubt Michael will go for it and this will lead to a blowout between CJ and Michael and will fracture the remaining survivors. I think the arguing between Michael and CJ about the use of the gun trucks and CJ revealing her frustrations to Pegs is just giving a is a precursory view of the frustration that is building.

tonyhind86
Nov 30th, 2013, 04:48 AM
It'll be interesting to see if she makes any effort to stop people from leaving if they decide to leave the colony. Remember, she initially didn't want the responsibility of running the place, and the prospect of failure is getting to her.

Grognaurd
Nov 30th, 2013, 05:30 AM
I have been a believer of the idea that CJ often has poor execution. However, I also believe that CJ s all about CJ, so I can see her losing some people to reduce the rate at which supplies are consumed rather than thinking outside of the box to save everyone. I can easily believe that to her the plan is more important than the people.

A true leader sees threats before they become overwhelming. CJ just looks at her spreadsheets and gets depressed that the numbers do not work.

CJ! It is TEOTWAWKI, you have to implement a lot of low tech, supplemented with just a bit of high tech.

My primary target is an amphibious resupply node. The military is all about putting a whole bunch of dudes somewhere and then keeping them resupplied. Armchair generals talk about strategy and tacticts. Real generals talk about logistics.

LiamKerrington
Nov 30th, 2013, 07:31 AM
@Rob: I'd love to see it evolve in that direction. But ...
@Unit9014 and Grognaurd: This is pretty much what I see coming or happening as well about CJ ... The current state of affairs is directed at a conflict between Michael and CJ or CJ and Michael ... And considering the headstrong character of CJ's I don't see a positive outcome of this conflict in terms of what Michael announced at the end of season #3 ...

I guess: In about 50 hours after this posting we will learn more in episode #40-3 ...

Best wishes!
Liam

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 30th, 2013, 09:00 AM
Ah, my tour de force through the Walking Dead season 3 has ended. It took less than 24 consecutive hours. So, where the relevance to this thread? CJ fails miserably at communicating with people. She deeply mistrusts anyone who might has the arguments and the abilities to change the global survival game plan. For example, there is not the "inner circle" from season 1 and 2. And that is mainly due to CJ's tendency to alienate people, even applying some white lies when needed. In addition, she revealed - as scbubba added - to have poor project management skills. Nearly nobody is mad at somebody if a problem is reported, for instance while implementing an IT project. However, everyone will be quite mad at you when you decide to cover the problem up until there is virtually no time to fix that issue. Concerning the colony, a lot of people are going to die unless a "story miracle" is going to happen.

It is funny because in my opinion, there is a striking coincidence when it comes down to communication. I do not say that CJ shows some traits of the Governor for example. Nevertheless, I guess that we would find quite some "black spots" in her Dunbar Tower time, when the Dunbar policies were simply derived from CJ's policies.

tonyhind86
Nov 30th, 2013, 09:51 AM
Do you think she will crack up a la Governor style? I think there's an impending mental breakdown coming to CJ.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 30th, 2013, 10:13 AM
Do you think she will crack up a la Governor style? I think there's an impending mental breakdown coming to CJ.

Well, the Governor certainly has a different personality but yes, if the result of her actions will lead to let's say 20 surviving colonists instead of 60+, I guess that she can live with it, because it was "her plan" which allowed so many people to survive. And besides, she can blame Michael for whatever caused the colony to fail in her opinion if she desires to. Therefor, she embodies some of the Governor's traits at last.

tonyhind86
Nov 30th, 2013, 11:19 AM
Well, the Governor certainly has a different personality but yes, if the result of her actions will lead to let's say 20 surviving colonists instead of 60+, I guess that she can live with it, because it was "her plan" which allowed so many people to survive. And besides, she can blame Michael for whatever caused the colony to fail in her opinion if she desires to. Therefor, she embodies some of the Governor's traits at last.

You make a good few points about CJ's personality and its similarities/ differences with the Governor. Both have had to deal with personal losses (CJ - the loss of Sean, Governor - the loss of his daughter) and physical trauma (CJ - leg, Governor - eye). Yet the way they have dealt with their situations are very different. CJ, although initially reluctant, agreed to lead the colony simply because she had no other choice at the time. The Governor is just hell bent on revenge against those he blames for his problems.
I agree that CJ will blame Michael for the colony's situation if she has to, which will drive a wedge further between them as well as the original survivors. Will they side with Michael out of loyalty, or with CJ and the colony for fear of losing their latest safe haven?

47-ish hours to go for the next episode, hopefully we get some answers :-)

masnyder4
Dec 1st, 2013, 12:38 AM
First time posting on this or any forum...So bear with me!
I think one of two things is about to happen with CJ. I'll try and make it so it doesn't sound so "the coin will land heads or tails" because, well, no shit! I think that everything is about to fall apart in her face, she tries to fix every issue they are having and in turn isn't able to fix any completely. This causes her to attempt to blame everyone else, Michael for having HIS gun truck, Pegs for not getting her cows to lay eggs and Datu for not building a Flux Capacitor out of chem lights. She gets called on that and is ousted from any sort of leadership (welcome King Datu!). That or while talking privately about the issues that she was with Pegs, the person she was talking with comes up with a great idea that she dismisses with "I've already thought of that, it wouldn't work" because it wasn't her idea. Later she tries that idea, it works, and she gets called on it and is ousted from any leadership positions (welcome King Datu). Either way, she then gets back into a leadership position upon the arrival of Burt and Riley since she "saved" them from getting exiled.

Also...Am I the only one that hopes there is a little more with Tanya? I mean, slow turner or somewhat immune, can breathe at ground zero, and mad doctor extraordinaire! I was hoping that she'd secretly had worked at Raydon or some other place that might have been involved in this as medical staff. When she catches up with Saul they talk about how she left, her friends could have told him where to find her, and it was a job she couldn't turn down. The further we get the less likely I think it is.

Last part....Ink was in the van for thirty minutes rocking out to when "When worlds collide, by Powerman 5000"!

If any of this is redundant or has been disproven or is just idiotic, my apologies. I don't even know where the bathrooms are in here!

Third attempt try to post this (stupid buttons)...SMH and I'm a 29 year old male trying his best!

tonyhind86
Dec 1st, 2013, 04:40 AM
If anyone can build a flux capacitor from chem lights, its Datu :-)

I'm not sure if Tanya has a secret connection with Raydon - she is a vet after all, and has admitted several times that some of the research she is conducting is beyond her abilities as a medical professional. However, we haven't been given any details about her husband/Saul's father - all I know is he apparently left them. Perhaps we haven't heard his full story yet?

Btw, I like the idea of Ink rocking out to "when worlds collide" in the van :-)

masnyder4
Dec 1st, 2013, 05:01 AM
Lol, as soon as I started reading the "what happened in the thiry minutes" I could just see an inked up guy rocking it out getting psyched up for a WWE type entrance! And Datu might need some duct tape to finish it up!
I get that she is a VET and says what she is doing is beyond her abilities. That being said, when has she struck out or barked up the wrong tree? Wherever she looks, she finds what she is looking for. And airsamples from a vet??? I could be way off, but maybe she was staying at a Holiday Inn Express before everything went down!

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Dec 1st, 2013, 05:05 AM
You make a good few points about CJ's personality and its similarities/ differences with the Governor. Both have had to deal with personal losses (CJ - the loss of Sean, Governor - the loss of his daughter) and physical trauma (CJ - leg, Governor - eye). Yet the way they have dealt with their situations are very different. CJ, although initially reluctant, agreed to lead the colony simply because she had no other choice at the time. The Governor is just hell bent on revenge against those he blames for his problems.
I agree that CJ will blame Michael for the colony's situation if she has to, which will drive a wedge further between them as well as the original survivors. Will they side with Michael out of loyalty, or with CJ and the colony for fear of losing their latest safe haven?

47-ish hours to go for the next episode, hopefully we get some answers :-)

Hm, I am wondering if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead:_Rise_of_the_Governor would be a good read to get a better unterstanding why the Governor became the man he is in the series.

tonyhind86
Dec 1st, 2013, 05:31 AM
Hm, I am wondering if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead:_Rise_of_the_Governor would be a good read to get a better unterstanding why the Governor became the man he is in the series.

Wow, I just read the plot summary, it looks like a really good read. Time to head over to Amazon methinks. Thanks for that link :-)

Tar Heel Fan
Dec 1st, 2013, 06:16 AM
Wow, it is tough to keep up with this thread if you wait a few days to listen to the episode! Lots of great thoughts out there that are enhancing the listening (and waiting) experience!

Bringing it back to Tanya and Saul's situation, I'm wondering how Tanya came up with the"cocktail" of meds she has applied. Is it possible there is overlap between what they took and what was in Ink's tatt mix?
Tinfoil hat theory: Tanya was Bill Robert's vet, and in treating a pet of his, they had a conversation about some of the drugs he was working with at Radon labs...
Also, though Tanya was"just a Vet," might a research facility dealing with chemicals who might be doing animal testing have a vet on staff? Tanya's methodology of experimenting and documentation seems to come from experience...

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Dec 1st, 2013, 07:03 AM
Wow, I just read the plot summary, it looks like a really good read. Time to head over to Amazon methinks. Thanks for that link :-)

You are welcome. :)

tonyhind86
Dec 1st, 2013, 07:17 AM
Wow, it is tough to keep up with this thread if you wait a few days to listen to the episode! Lots of great thoughts out there that are enhancing the listening (and waiting) experience!

Bringing it back to Tanya and Saul's situation, I'm wondering how Tanya came up with the"cocktail" of meds she has applied. Is it possible there is overlap between what they took and what was in Ink's tatt mix?
Tinfoil hat theory: Tanya was Bill Robert's vet, and in treating a pet of his, they had a conversation about some of the drugs he was working with at Radon labs...
Also, though Tanya was"just a Vet," might a research facility dealing with chemicals who might be doing animal testing have a vet on staff? Tanya's methodology of experimenting and documentation seems to come from experience...

Anything is possible - this season, though only a couple of chapters in, has already provided enough surprises and room for speculation to keep the forum busy. Even though she's just a vet, Tanya does seem to know quite a lot about human anatomy and physiology; and we already know she's one for keeping secrets.

26-ish hours to go :excited:

LiamKerrington
Dec 1st, 2013, 05:11 PM
less than 16 1/2 hours ... Yeehawww!

tonyhind86
Dec 2nd, 2013, 02:39 AM
I'm gonna be in a job interview today when the new episode gets uploaded. Luckily, I'll be able to download it via the app and listen to it on the way home :D

LiamKerrington
Dec 2nd, 2013, 03:47 AM
I'm gonna be in a job interview today when the new episode gets uploaded. Luckily, I'll be able to download it via the app and listen to it on the way home :D

I wish you good luck with your interview! If the interviewer and you should get off-topic, and you happen to realize he enjoys The Walking Dead, tell him about We're Alive!

Best wishes!
Liam

tonyhind86
Dec 2nd, 2013, 03:54 AM
Thanks dude! I'm hoping to sneak We're Alive into one of my answers. For instance, if they ask what I do for recreation, I'll answer "Well, there's this amazing audio drama...."

Me and the interviewer will be best buds by tonight :D

Unit
Dec 2nd, 2013, 04:41 AM
I'm gonna be in a job interview today when the new episode gets uploaded. Luckily, I'll be able to download it via the app and listen to it on the way home :D

Best of luck!!!

tonyhind86
Dec 2nd, 2013, 04:58 AM
Thanks!

skankyfish
Dec 2nd, 2013, 05:36 AM
I'm gonna be in a job interview today when the new episode gets uploaded. Luckily, I'll be able to download it via the app and listen to it on the way home :D

Oooh, good luck!

tonyhind86
Dec 2nd, 2013, 05:53 AM
Thanks! I'll let everyone know how it goes when I'm done :D

Gnex
Dec 2nd, 2013, 07:07 AM
Bring on 40-3!!!!! :omgomg:

skankyfish
Dec 2nd, 2013, 07:12 AM
Time for my now-traditional...is it time yet? How about now? ...now? Now?! *tantrum* :omgomg:

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Dec 2nd, 2013, 08:28 AM
I.. Need... My... Precious... Next... Episode...

Footbutt
Dec 2nd, 2013, 09:30 AM
quick note:
haven't started listening to 40-3 yet, but i noticed when Victor and Tanya experience the "earthquake" the guy they are calling on the radio says:

"what was that? Hello? The radio cut out."

now this isn't really a big thing, but it's possible the radio cutting out was affected by the rumbling/earthquake. a mini EMP? What sort of natural disaster can tamper with RF waves?

bobo20
Dec 3rd, 2013, 06:50 AM
in the episode of 40-2... the group is experiencing a lack of energy (low fuel for the vehicles and generators)... why don't they use solar, batteries, and inverters for god sakes?!... even in a zombie scenario, they could harvest solar panels from multiple places throughout california, get the inverters from any walmart/autozone store and get the batteries from all the now defunct cars. This would enable them to run all of their refrigerators, freezers, lights, and small electrical loads. also, they could use propane and natural gas to run gasoline generators too through a modified air intake ;)

I love the show, but this electrical engineer (assuming I survived to this point) would be running circles around Glenn and Datu :)