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Kc
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:43 AM
New Thread!

Gnex
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:45 AM
New Thread!

Yes, yes, yes!!! Let's GO!!!!

skankyfish
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:49 AM
I'm only 5 minutes in, but OH MY WORD THIS IS JUICY!

ZombieWildfire
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:53 AM
So.much.to.take.in!!

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:56 AM
#7

LiamKerrington
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:58 AM
Things start falling into place.
And a thunderstorm is building ...
Wow! Am looking forward to listening to #40-2 ...

#40-1 confirms a lot of stuff and renders many theories at least halfway pointless ... But most important: What will happen to Mom and Bro next with Seven around? If you don'T know, what I am talking about: Listen to #40-1 ... ! NOW!

Best wishes!
Liam

LiamKerrington
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:58 AM
#7

ex-act-ly!

LiamKerrington
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:00 AM
And who else wishes to see Kelly showing up as Judge Dreddess (or Judge DreddASS) in the zombocalypse and kicking them zombos to hell and back again?

Gnex
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:04 AM
I Hear Thunder!!!!!! Thanks KC for the weather!!!! <3 <3 <3!!!!

Gnex
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:08 AM
and............

Let the wheels begin to spin.............

Grognaurd
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:09 AM
I heard a crow when Victor and Tanya were at ground zero. I knew it was different, since durring the first visit everything was dead. Then, it is confirmed that the haze was gone and the #7 show up. I hear another crow late in the episode at the courthouse...

skankyfish
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:12 AM
Just finished. Need to digest it and think a little, and probably listen again. Definitely :tinfoil: time!

Footbutt
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:12 AM
this episode was AWESOME.
i guess my predictions were correct.

doing a re-listen now! so much to catch...

Kelly: "with a sh*t load of ball point pens--no pun intended." haha! loved that little joke squeezed in during a very tense moment.

HardKor
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:19 AM
hmmm...a lot to think about in this one.

First thing that comes to mind for me is: why is a little one attacking a regular. Is Ink having all the regulars exterminated to make way for his numbered pets? Or are they just clearing out the roamers that haven't joined with Ink's army?

The other thing that on my mind is the chapter artwork. What is that? At first I thought it might have been something at the Colony, but that doesn't look like the Colony to me. It looks like it's out in the woods somewhere.

skankyfish
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:19 AM
BUT, before I go, the thing that's bothering me the most is this: back in the early chapters the TIVO recording said:


The plea of insanity has been accepted in the case of Bill Roberts, nicknamed “Ink” after his numerous tattoos that cover him from head to toe.

Ink was convicted of multiple homicides outside of Santa Monica last May. He is currently being transferred to a mental health facility. Doctors have confirmed that he is paranoid schizophrenic, and the family itself was devastated—

*TIVO bleep bloop*

He is currently being transferred to a mental health facility—

*TIVO bleep bloop*

We are receiving updated reports of the rioting in downtown Los Angeles. News of more riots are being reported in many metropolitan areas outside of Los Angeles, Detroit, San Diego, New York, Houston, Chicago and also internationally in cities such as—

But today, it seems like he *never even got into the court house*, never mind start the transfer to a mental health facility! It also seemed that he was coming to court from prison, to which he'd been transferred from a mental health facility. Is it just that he was due to go back to Cain Hospital after the court hearing? Why was he ever in prison if his mental health was so bad? Is this a breadcrumb to follow? Or just a continuity blooper??

So many questions!!

skankyfish
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:20 AM
hmmm...a lot to think about in this one.

First thing that comes to mind for me is: why is a little one attacking a regular. Is Ink having all the regulars exterminated to make way for his numbered pets? Or are they just clearing out the roamers that haven't joined with Ink's army?

The other thing that on my mind is the chapter artwork. What is that? At first I thought it might have been something at the Colony, but that doesn't look like the Colony to me. It looks like its out in the woods somewhere.

Or is the Little One just hungry? It might be a while since it had a tasty human to snack on...

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:20 AM
dY/dX=0

A critical point in the story has been reached. No longer are the survivors in the dark about what we know or suspect. Now they are piecing things together just ahead of us.

Kc
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:20 AM
I Hear Thunder!!!!!! Thanks KC for the weather!!!! <3 <3 <3!!!!

You asked that question last week, and I was like, oh, good timing :)

Kc
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:23 AM
BUT, before I go, the thing that's bothering me the most is this: back in the early chapters the TIVO recording said:



But today, it seems like he *never even got into the court house*, never mind start the transfer to a mental health facility! It also seemed that he was coming to court from prison, to which he'd been transferred from a mental health facility. Is it just that he was due to go back to Cain Hospital after the court hearing? Why was he ever in prison if his mental health was so bad? Is this a breadcrumb to follow? Or just a continuity blooper??

So many questions!!

He was never in prison. I won't comment early on, but it's not a blooper.

nikvoodoo
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:25 AM
Whoops! Sorry for the missing thread! Got way too distracted at work this morning!

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:30 AM
BUT, before I go, the thing that's bothering me the most is this: back in the early chapters the TIVO recording said:


The plea of insanity has been accepted in the case of Bill Roberts, nicknamed “Ink” after his numerous tattoos that cover him from head to toe.

Ink was convicted of multiple homicides outside of Santa Monica last May. He is currently being transferred to a mental health facility. Doctors have confirmed that he is paranoid schizophrenic, and the family itself was devastated—

*TIVO bleep bloop*

He is currently being transferred to a mental health facility—

*TIVO bleep bloop*

We are receiving updated reports of the rioting in downtown Los Angeles. News of more riots are being reported in many metropolitan areas outside of Los Angeles, Detroit, San Diego, New York, Houston, Chicago and also internationally in cities such as—

But today, it seems like he *never even got into the court house*, never mind start the transfer to a mental health facility! It also seemed that he was coming to court from prison, to which he'd been transferred from a mental health facility. Is it just that he was due to go back to Cain Hospital after the court hearing? Why was he ever in prison if his mental health was so bad? Is this a breadcrumb to follow? Or just a continuity blooper??

So many questions!!

I'm not sure, so I'm on my second listen, but Kelly mentions that he never made it to the courthouse(?) and that he was attacked and turned. Kalani says that CJ's people thought that ground zero is where the first bitten was turned. CJ had at least one police officer on her team (The SWAT member). I always thought that the first bitten comment was extremely specific. As, if someone from CJ's team knew more details about the beginning than we do. Maybe even saw it start.

OldtypeM87
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:31 AM
Loved it, about time we hopefully get to an possible origin story of Ink now

Storm
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:31 AM
I LOOOVE THIS SEASON!
Okay, seems like the father/son theory was wrong, but hey, it was good! :D
The "I think Robins is dead"-part got me really nervous... And I actually kinda hoped that he was, due to the Chemical that got on his arm.
At my first relisten I thought Tanya was getting killed, on my second I realised what Victor meant by saying she wasn't as quick. Hehe.
But... Robberts was nicknamed Ink due to his tattoos, that covered him from head to toe... Sounded more like they were on his face and hands according to the newspaper, but well.
This is getting better and better! :D :D :D

PS. Can someone please explain the artwork for me... Woods? Sounds interesting. :)

Gooer
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:33 AM
Oh man, I was shocked when Muldoon said Robbins was dead....I nearly screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". But then it was a lie......Man, what a episode; confirmed that Dr Roberts = Ink = One with the Markings, the disappearing bodies and gas in Inglewood, #7 attacking the lone wolf...... WHAT IS GOING ON???? AND, to top it all off, they found out Ink wasn't the first one turned............
One hell of an episode, gives us answers to last episode's questions, but gives us even more questions for next time....DAYUM.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:37 AM
I LOOOVE THIS SEASON!

PS. Can someone please explain the artwork for me... Woods? Sounds interesting. :)

Looks like they are setting up a wind power electric generator.

Kc
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:41 AM
I'm not sure, so I'm on my second listen, but Kelly mentions that he never made it to the courthouse(?) and that he was attacked and turned. Kalani says that CJ's people thought that ground zero is where the first bitten was turned. CJ had at least one police officer on her team (The SWAT member). I always thought that the first bitten comment was extremely specific. As, if someone from CJ's team knew more details about the beginning than we do. Maybe even saw it start.

Oh, I think I know people's confusion. This wasn't William Roberts first time at the courthouse, that wouldn't make sense. This was just ONE of the times he was to be there.

HardKor
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:45 AM
There's one thing confusing me about the news reports. On the TiVo back in chapter 2 it says the murders occurred "last May" which would indicate May 2008. Now in this episode, Kelly uses the same wording of last May, and says that the murders happened "almost a year ago." But by this point that would mean May 2009, right before the outbreak started.

skankyfish
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:49 AM
He was never in prison. I won't comment early on, but it's not a blooper.

Ok, thanks for the hint! Time to re-listen...

Footbutt
Nov 18th, 2013, 10:53 AM
Oh man, I was shocked when Muldoon said Robbins was dead....I nearly screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". But then it was a lie......Man, what a episode; confirmed that Dr Roberts = Ink = One with the Markings, the disappearing bodies and gas in Inglewood, #7 attacking the lone wolf...... WHAT IS GOING ON???? AND, to top it all off, they found out Ink wasn't the first one turned............
One hell of an episode, gives us answers to last episode's questions, but gives us even more questions for next time....DAYUM.


...but was Ink "targeted"?

Unit
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:05 AM
Only 2 minutes in and all my theories already flushed down the toilet. Nice work KC ;-)

Going to listen to the rest of the episode now and catch up on the forum in a little bit haha

Praetorian
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:05 AM
Did anyone notice the letters on the fence netting in the back ground? Looks like yellow spray paint. Can't make out the first character or if there is one so it is the "?". It looks like it says ?AR KING. Have I missed something else this could reference? Does anyone else have an idea if it means anything? Mybe it just says Parking, but may be a clue to the location of the artwork.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:09 AM
Oh, I knew it. There are always more bloodthirsty things than zombies...

http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/lawyer_zombie_tshirts-r74accd934d8749a4aefa61686491d773_vjfef_324.jpg

Gnex
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:10 AM
You asked that question last week, and I was like, oh, good timing :)

Yep! I don't know, I just feel like the rain/thunder episodes always have an "edge of your seat" vibe to them. Something about it being all dark and gloomy and then BANG! something jumps out at you..... EEEP!!!

Merlin1274
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:12 AM
Man another Awesome Episode KC..

Ink is Ink.. TOWTM.. I knew that.. It had to happen that way.. Inglewood.. NO HAZE.. Bodies are all gone.. Little one attacks a regular one.. Is he hungry or on a mission..
Victor now knows the Tink's secret.. But he is good with it.. Another huge cliff Hanger..

Michael is finally getting tired of CJ's shit.. Took him long enough.. He is the military.. Time to take back ownership of their equipment.
Kelly is earning more respect from me.

The torn up Transport Van.. Got mauled probably after they put him in it to take him back to the mental hospital after the trial was done. He got bit and then became the ultimate smart one.. King Z.

Still can't get over Victor talking about the Little one Jumping on the truck and attacking the other.. Wonder how he and Tanya get out of that one.. We know at least Vic survived..

Now the long wait till next monday..

awkwardalex
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:18 AM
Glad to finally get a strong Kelly episode KC said we would see, second...DAMN YOU KC AND YOUR CLIFFHANGERS!

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:19 AM
And damn, Victor desperately needs a boost of morale, plus esprit de corps.

He just went from

http://ecwfrenchtribute.free.fr/HTLM/Photos/R/Razor_Ramon/Razor_Ramon_-_Scott_Hall_07.jpg

"He didn't see that comin'"

to

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_P-nuIHeWQo/UVX30VUIfNI/AAAAAAAAm6o/MVavLSmFwJ0/s320/UlhfV3V2eWEwaVUx_o_cheech-chong-up-in-smoke-car-joke.jpg

Come on man, the story needs you!

7oddisdead
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:21 AM
Well.....wow

kor hit a good point. Is ink wiping out the regulars? All Michael and co seem to see is lone wolfs, yet during the Randy incident there was a group of them in the alley. Yes it could have been a trap. But could it not have also been that the regulars were hiding? Note they didn't come out til Randy was gone.

um..i don't even know where to start on this episode. I'll say this, I like where this is headed. More later.

Gnex
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:21 AM
Who is on top of the Wind Generator in the picture??? Where is the Wind Generator???

Merlin1274
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:30 AM
Cover Art.. Windmill hooked up to pump water.. Probably Datu the resourceful working on it.. Probably part of the park area.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:37 AM
Cover Art.. Windmill hooked up to pump water.. Probably Datu the resourceful working on it.. Probably part of the park area.

The person on top seems to carry a rucksack. Hm.

Grognaurd
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:46 AM
I am so lost. Ink is criminally insane so everything and anything makes perfect sense, or since he is criminally insane nothing at all makes sense.

Kc
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:51 AM
There's one thing confusing me about the news reports. On the TiVo back in chapter 2 it says the murders occurred "last May" which would indicate May 2008. Now in this episode, Kelly uses the same wording of last May, and says that the murders happened "almost a year ago." But by this point that would mean May 2009, right before the outbreak started.

The "almost half a year ago" is referring to the papers that were covering the trial around the time of the outbreak. And, you're right. The "last may" is referring to 2008.

""
KELLY
That’s about it, only what they’ve
covered in these articles. I asked
one of the fuel teams to grab any
newspapers they can while they’re
out today, but they didn’t sound
too excited to take time out to
look for a bunch of papers from
almost half a year ago.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:53 AM
It does not come as a surprise when the mental facility where you undergo psychiatric studies is run by Nick Rivers and therefor your mental health starts to deteriorate exponentially:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumJ3wkg78A

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 18th, 2013, 12:08 PM
So, next question: when will the TOWTM wiki page editing massacre start?

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 12:09 PM
Carl & Kelly are under the impression that some attacks by some may be retaliatory. So now we have A) attacks due to large gatherings of humans and B) attacks due to retaliation.
Anyone up to posting examples, and whether or not these types of attacks overlap or are all the same?

Pikepaw
Nov 18th, 2013, 12:23 PM
Wow the game has changed. Why did 7 attack the Regular? We know the Behemoths would eat the Regulars when food ran short, which would connect the theories that Behemoths and Inklings are closely related. Not sure if I buy it, I like the idea that Inklings are a combination of all the different types best features. Also we don't have enough evidence that 7 was going to eat the Regular. But maybe that is why Super Tattoo Pimp Zombie was holding them back in chapter 36, because they don't play nice with others. Or most likely a variety of tactical reasons.

I love seeing all the puzzle pieces fitting together! Also Saul called Victor his best friend! Better be after all of their adventures. But now Ground Zero doesn't work anymore! Did it fade after 10 months or did someone clean it up?

Interesting to see, years ago Ink was theorized to be a test subject. Now we know he was a scientist, probably one of the scientists behind all of this. It APPEARS though that Ink was not the first zombie. So much Dr Roberts info, I don't want to stop now!

LiamKerrington
Nov 18th, 2013, 12:46 PM
First thing that comes to mind for me is: why is a little one attacking a regular. Is Ink having all the regulars exterminated to make way for his numbered pets? Or are they just clearing out the roamers that haven't joined with Ink's army?

- It could be its task to take down solitary regulars.
- It could be out of control and just caring for its own stomache ... Imagine Little Ones not controlled by Ink anymore ... That would be kind of ... Well ... Turns me to the question: IF Little Ones disconnect from Ink's control, would they turn against him, and most importantly: would a Little One be capable of taking down Ink? Like a master who created a MONSTER that turned against him, 'cause he underestimated what he achieved?
- It could be just a random encounter, like with a Little One being just hungry and doing what hungry beasts of prey do: Hunt, and devour ...
- Maybe the remaining Little Ones got their own turfs in the area of LA; so #7 would stay in and around Inglewood taking care of anything over there ...
Too many options with too little information we have ...

-----------

As for Robbins being dead: Yes, that got me as well ...

-----------

Kelly becoming Judge Dreddess ...

http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-content/hershey1.jpg

... doing THIS:

http://www.battlegrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/dreddvszombies.jpg

Best wishes!
Liam

scbubba
Nov 18th, 2013, 12:51 PM
Wow! Love this episode!!!!

As soon as I realized that Victor and Tanya were at Ground Zero and going in, I flashed back to my whole "There is no 1st person perspective from Tanya yet" thought process and came to the conclusion that she could be a goner by the time we get through this chapter.... Yipe!

Ground Zero is no long uninhabitable! Game changer!

#7 attacking a normal biter? Zombie clans? Driven by hunger? Curiouser and curiouser....

Scene change....

Kelly is ready to earn her keep. Rock and roll, girl!

William I Roberts = Bill Roberts = Ink = Pinstripes seems a pretty solid bet at the moment. Big servings of crow (which I heard too, Grog!) for my William is the father of Bill ideas....

The jailhouse tat thing helps explain some of the Raydon employee all tatted up deal. But we still ave the police tape up for a really long time if it was originally put up in an investigation that was a year old. I'm wondering if something else happened closer to ZDay that the police were investigating there. Like perhaps a recent break-in to steal chemicals from Roberts' office?

Some key things that stood out to me from Kelly:
1) Retaliatory attacks - I feel like this will come back as an important observation as we learn more about Ink and Co
2) Description of the van - As someone pointed out in another thread, it doesn't sound like the work of normal biters. Sounds like something packing more of a wallop. I have an thread of a theory on why something special may have been present to break Ink out of police custody.... More to come....

Oh, and when I Kelly read "Nick Rivers" in the report, I heard Nick Riviera (Dr from the Simpsons TV show). My brain inserted "Hi everybody!"....

Once again, Kc... Damn fine episode! You rock, good sir.

7oddisdead
Nov 18th, 2013, 12:59 PM
What does Kelly say as she first approaches the van? I've listened three times and it sounds like "a ring" but I'm not 100%.

LizzyFabre
Nov 18th, 2013, 01:29 PM
The "almost half a year ago" is referring to the papers that were covering the trial around the time of the outbreak. And, you're right. The "last may" is referring to 2008.

""
KELLY
That’s about it, only what they’ve
covered in these articles. I asked
one of the fuel teams to grab any
newspapers they can while they’re
out today, but they didn’t sound
too excited to take time out to
look for a bunch of papers from
almost half a year ago.

No Kc. That's an old script. I changed that. She says, "almost a year ago."

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 18th, 2013, 01:36 PM
BTW, does anyone have a clue why the episode is called "monsters" and not just "monster"? Just because of the omnium-gatherum (yes, that is my new vocabulary of the day!) of Ink's backstory and what happens in parallel at ground zero?

7oddisdead
Nov 18th, 2013, 01:39 PM
Little something I thought of for those still questioning the police tape. With what we learned in this episode as well as the TiVo stuff from chapt 2, I could see the police tape still being there due to his psychiatric condition. If he is being tried for murder and he is pleading insanity, would there not be an investigation into his offices for any signs of "self medicating"/creating his own illness/symtoms? Could be one reason for the tape to be there.

Z Sniper
Nov 18th, 2013, 02:15 PM
BTW, does anyone have a clue why the episode is called "monsters" and not just "monster"? Just because of the omnium-gatherum (yes, that is my new vocabulary of the day!) of Ink's backstory and what happens in parallel at ground zero?

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that,...(don't tell Kc I told you!), that these are just "monsters" roaming around in Michael's head. Yes ladies and gents, it seems Michael took another good wiff of his experimental mixtures and has taken a bad "trip" to la-la land. When he wakes up, IF he wakes up, we all go bye-bye.

Kc
Nov 18th, 2013, 03:02 PM
No Kc. That's an old script. I changed that. She says, "almost a year ago."

Crap. Yes it was. I only had version 4 at work, forgot that line changed.

poniesandzombies
Nov 18th, 2013, 03:37 PM
What I learned today....
Carl is CJ's spy and a pretty bad one at that
Bill Roberts is Ink
I am done with theories....I will just allow KC to take me along for the ride....
Well except for Skittles being one of the mastermind, puppeteer, dr jeckle mr Hydes.... I now think he is part of a clan though... I am still sticking with that.....

Verse
Nov 18th, 2013, 03:48 PM
OK... I thick KC is just screwing with us. My Theroy of Father/Son is truth. It will be the major twist at the end!

All seriousness though....

I am glad that the Group are connecting the Dots now. Also that we found out a few things. Like that Ink was turned. Pretty sure he is not patient Zero anymore. Just a lucky threat. Also like that they explained the Tat's. The Little One (#7) attacking the normal is interestintg as well. My gut (which hasn't always been right... see the Father/Son idea that flopped) says that TOWTM is killing off the ones that are not with him. Thinning the Herd. We don't know how long Ground Zero has been clean. Could be that the Zombies picked them off as food stuff if the Air cleared out right after Saul and Victor checked it out.

Regardless what they found makes sense. As much as I complained how "I just can't see XYZ" this episode put a lot together. Answered a decent amount of questions as well. Explained how Ink had Tats and worked. Explained the Police Tape being up so long. Put to rest the multiple Zombie Leader, Father/Son, are Pin Strip and Ink the same, issues. I am very happy with what we got.

As for the Title... I think Monsters reflects the multiple people/issues. Ink killed his Wife, Wife's Lover, and Wife's Lover's Family. Cant get much more monster than that. Ink is the big bad and known. Makes him a Monster now in another sense. #7 is killed other Zombies.. Another Monster. Willing to bet we here from CJ and see how she is after these 4 months. Betting she is kinda a Monster (Although in a better way).

LiamKerrington
Nov 18th, 2013, 05:29 PM
Monsters ...
a) The Tinks
b) Ink
c) Inklings
...
Is it only me, or is there a pattern?

Best wishes!
Liam

Grognaurd
Nov 18th, 2013, 05:48 PM
So, Bill Roberts was transferred from somewhere to the Courthouse. Seem obvious to me that he was coming from Cain's General hospital. What was the plaque? I bring relief to troubled minds

FunkyDung
Nov 18th, 2013, 05:55 PM
Damn you, Grognaurd. Now I'm listening for crows. I assume you heard it in this episode, too.

FunkyDung
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:00 PM
Anybody else think a lot of the dialog was written specifically to tease the theorists among us?

7oddisdead
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:05 PM
Anybody else think a lot of the dialog was written specifically to tease the theorists among us?

I didn't. I was quite happy with it.

I DO HOWEVER think the crow thing is very very real now. It was just too damn obvious in this episode.

FunkyDung
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:09 PM
I didn't. I was quite happy with it.

Oh, I didn't mean to convey any displeasure. I was amused by it. Then again, my humor tends to be a bit caustic.

Grognaurd
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:11 PM
Damn you, Grognaurd. Now I'm listening for crows. I assume you heard it in this episode, too.

Yup, twice. Once at ground zero just before #7 shows up and then again at the van. Was the one at van just to punctuate ink or is it crow recon? I do not know

7oddisdead
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:12 PM
Oh, I didn't mean to convey any displeasure. I was amused by it. Then again, my humor tends to be a bit caustic.

your humor eats through proteins? That's crazy!

mine is like the Sahara, dry and dusty...and thousands of miles from me.

I'm being a smartass, I can't wait to get to a real computer. Bunches of stuff to wallotext in here.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:12 PM
BTW, does anyone have a clue why the episode is called "monsters" and not just "monster"? Just because of the omnium-gatherum (yes, that is my new vocabulary of the day!) of Ink's backstory and what happens in parallel at ground zero?

I don't know, but Monsters was one of the names suggested by Tommy for the zombies. Michael said that the name sounded too weird.

FunkyDung
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:12 PM
Yep! I don't know, I just feel like the rain/thunder episodes always have an "edge of your seat" vibe to them. Something about it being all dark and gloomy and then BANG! something jumps out at you..... EEEP!!!

Well...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AStormIsComing

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:16 PM
So, Bill Roberts was transferred from somewhere to the Courthouse. Seem obvious to me that he was coming from Cain's General hospital. What was the plaque? I bring relief to troubled minds

The courthouse in Inglewood?

Witch_Doctor
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:17 PM
Hmm, seems like we now know where he may have been attacked and turned, yet his eyes didn't turn cloudy.

He killed his cheating wife, her boyfriend, his family, their dog, it's chew toys, a gold fish and ripped off those 'Do Not Remove' tags from all of the pillows.. So, he was extremely butt-hurt.

The mental health professional involved with his case says that he is lucid and could freak out involuntary or at will. (Who the hell freaks out at will?)

He got the tattoos while in jail awaiting his trial.

So, first question of mine is, why didn't his eyes change?

Grognaurd
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:35 PM
The courthouse in Inglewood?

Well, this week's courthouse. Was it placed in Ingelwood? I missed it.

Unit
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:51 PM
Hmm, seems like we now know where he may have been attacked and turned, yet his eyes didn't turn cloudy.

He killed his cheating wife, her boyfriend, his family, their dog, it's chew toys, a gold fish and ripped off those 'Do Not Remove' tags from all of the pillows.. So, he was extremely butt-hurt.

The mental health professional involved with his case says that he is lucid and could freak out involuntary or at will. (Who the hell freaks out at will?)

He got the tattoos while in jail awaiting his trial.

So, first question of mine is, why didn't his eyes change?


So it said that Ink was being treated at the psychiatric study. Could that study have included administration of medication to keep him calm or in control? Could there be a similar connection to the antibiotics that Saul was given or something perhaps Tanya has taken. Maybe to the degree you have a specific medication in your system you are able to resist turning. Maybe the medications in Ink's system weren't enough to keep him from turning but enough to help him retain some of his mental and physic abilities?

Unit
Nov 18th, 2013, 06:54 PM
A separate thought, Ink obviously remembered the mental facility from before turning, why else would he return there. He remembered his office and previous work place if he is in fact the one who sent the zombies there. So now that we know who Bill Roberts is, perhaps we can track down some of his other previous haunts and that might lead us to the zombies current hide out?

Which also leads to the questions, what memory or relationship might Roberts have had about the Arena or what may have lead him there? Apparently he spent some time in court, could he have returned there and set that up as one of his safe houses? Michael and team haven't seen much outside yet, but might they run right into some booby traps like Datu did outside the arena?

HardKor
Nov 18th, 2013, 07:45 PM
A separate thought, Ink obviously remembered the mental facility from before turning, why else would he return there. He remembered his office and previous work place if he is in fact the one who sent the zombies there. So now that we know who Bill Roberts is, perhaps we can track down some of his other previous haunts and that might lead us to the zombies current hide out?

Which also leads to the questions, what memory or relationship might Roberts have had about the Arena or what may have lead him there? Apparently he spent some time in court, could he have returned there and set that up as one of his safe houses? Michael and team haven't seen much outside yet, but might they run right into some booby traps like Datu did outside the arena?

I was thinking about that too. I know follistatin and other myostatin inhibitors are marketed in a lot of bodybuilding supplements (most of them are bogus because real myostatin inhibitors are controlled). So I had an idea rolling around in my head that maybe Ink had a Biogenesis type steroid ring going and that's how he became acquainted with the Arena.

Condor
Nov 18th, 2013, 08:37 PM
Kind of chilling when Victor says "start the clock".
Also expected him to tell Tanya, when she said the tank was heavy, "it's lighter in the water".


I heard a crow when Victor and Tanya were at ground zero. I knew it was different, since durring the first visit everything was dead. Then, it is confirmed that the haze was gone and the #7 show up. I hear another crow late in the episode at the courthouse...
When I heard it, I thought "oh crap, there's nothing living at ground zero."


Looks like they are setting up a wind power electric generator.
My thoughts too.


It does not come as a surprise when the mental facility where you undergo psychiatric studies is run by Nick Rivers and therefor your mental health starts to deteriorate exponentially:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumJ3wkg78A
I knew that name sounded familiar.


What does Kelly say as she first approaches the van? I've listened three times and it sounds like "a ring" but I'm not 100%.
"Coming"


Hmm, seems like we now know where he may have been attacked and turned, yet his eyes didn't turn cloudy.

He killed his cheating wife, her boyfriend, his family, their dog, it's chew toys, a gold fish and ripped off those 'Do Not Remove' tags from all of the pillows.. So, he was extremely butt-hurt.

The mental health professional involved with his case says that he is lucid and could freak out involuntary or at will. (Who the hell freaks out at will?)

He got the tattoos while in jail awaiting his trial.

So, first question of mine is, why didn't his eyes change?
I'm not fully convinced he's turned, just master to the "monsters". Dr Frankenstein and his creations maybe. Why assume he was turned when the van was ripped apart? It seems more likely they were just breaking him out of jail.

Verse
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:03 PM
A separate thought, Ink obviously remembered the mental facility from before turning, why else would he return there. He remembered his office and previous work place if he is in fact the one who sent the zombies there. So now that we know who Bill Roberts is, perhaps we can track down some of his other previous haunts and that might lead us to the zombies current hide out?

Which also leads to the questions, what memory or relationship might Roberts have had about the Arena or what may have lead him there? Apparently he spent some time in court, could he have returned there and set that up as one of his safe houses? Michael and team haven't seen much outside yet, but might they run right into some booby traps like Datu did outside the arena?


I think Ink is very very aware of his life before turning. I think it was Witch Doctor that pointed out one thing that got me thinking tonight. His Eyes. He is the only turned one that has normal eyes. I think that is a big deal. A Sign that the lights are on up stairs. He has it more together than the others. We know he can read, write, speak, make complex traps (He pushed the cars together to make a dead end/kill zone), control himself (when the others attack they are rage machines and animals. He thinks. Played possum. Took his time getting in. Even smiled at the group in the hospital, Ect), control other Zombies, mix chemicals to make badder Zombies, and more. Hell...even his suit is well kept (Not in tatters). I think he is 100% in control and aware of what he was then and what he is now. I truly believe that is why his eyes are normal.

As for the Arena... if what I think is true is well... true... then he isn't going on instinct. Kelly even said that it seems that the assaults seemed like retaliation. That means you are planning and thinking. I think the Arena was just a place to hold the mass Horde. The reason why, I think, isn't important in story. He was a Hockey fan. That is where he caught his wife. He sold some stuff to some guys. I think that in the end he choose the place because it was big, and it was a pit. A place he can see everyone and keep control. A place where his people can eat, drink, and fight in games. I think he choose The Arena because he wanted to feel like a ruler. You can have your people play and fight with normals in the street, a garage, even The Hospital. He choose a place that is our times version of a Colosseum. I think it was because he has it all together (As much as a Zombie Crazy Man can) and he wanted to feel like a King.

Zombie-Bane
Nov 18th, 2013, 09:47 PM
Ok too many post. I have an idea.

CJ and her people were Marshals that were taking Ink to the hospital or prison, where ever. The crack blew turning Ink. He is patient zero.

She is hiding something about that day that she feels responsible for not putting him down quick enough.

DaTank
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:36 PM
This is gonna get interesting

clem131
Nov 18th, 2013, 11:44 PM
My thoughts on the title:
The zombies, obviously. But also Tamya and Saul. If her and Vic get out safely by radioing in their position and then explain what they were doing, everyone will consider them monsters, ready to turn anytime.
But aside from Tommy's reference, the word "monsters" appears once more, when CJ says it wasn't Michael who pulled the trigger on Sean: "those Monsters from Eastern Bay did".
Are we finally getting our share of Scratch back?

Eviebae
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:03 AM
Keep in mind, just cuz our heroes guess something doesn't make it true.

I'm warming to the Radon theory, but it's missing something. Radon has been accumulating in basements for awhile now, but no one's been zombified before this...unless it could be used to explain the rise of the boy bands...

I did see a few nods to the forums--like how the back of Ink's head was tattooed (thank you very much) but the explanation sounded fishy. It seemed like guesswork rather than fact. Either he was rich enough to bribe everyone in sight, or he was pretty darn persuasive. Plus, why was he tattooing those particular symbols before the outbreak?

Did anyone else think the psychiatrist gave out a boat load of confidential information to the press? Forget that, what kind of outburst is so bad that the doctors in a mental institute think it's best to let him be all by his lonesome cuz it's his preference??

7oddisdead
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:22 AM
well sweet baby jeebus, where to start!!

well, I guess ill start by saying that I have no intention of putting forth a full blown theory for a while. with the info we have at this point theres a good chance that any well thought out theory could be 50% right. id rather let other people get that...ill just point out some of the details ive noticed and some observations ive made from this chapter and the previous(they kinda all go together anyways).

perhaps the most important thing to keep in mind with all this ink backstory is the diagnosis he was given.

paranoid schizophrenia

"Paranoid schizophrenia is one of several types of schizophrenia, a chronic mental illness in which a person loses touch with reality (psychosis). The classic features of paranoid schizophrenia are having delusions and hearing things that aren't real.

With paranoid schizophrenia, your ability to think and function in daily life may be better than with other types of schizophrenia. You may not have as many problems with memory, concentration or dulled emotions. Still, paranoid schizophrenia is a serious, lifelong condition that can lead to many complications, including suicidal behavior. "

based on this I question if inks wife was actually cheating on him. literally everything, every part of what he did prior to outbreak could be a part of his phychosis. unfortunately, we will likely never find out. (he killed all the witnesses)

-what purpose would ink have for tattooing himself prior to his trial? sure, it could fall under the ^above^...but what if theres something more to it? the areas he had tattooed are ones that would be visable, not only to others..but to himself as well. I really feel like an ass for giving witch_doctor such a hard time a while back over looking into the symbols. it would seem they are important after all. I think this is a good job for theory team....we'll come back to this when we have something.

-it was mentioned what could/would ink have to do with the arena? why is it such a stretch that he could have been a hockey fan?? shit, datu was. (though perhaps not anymore). another thing to think of is we are talking about a scientist. the analytical mind could easily see how a place such as that could be modified to become a real "nest". the basic shape of the arena could also be internally modified to flow like a golden spiral (fibanocci, fool!)...hell for that matter, off the top of my head I can recall a few of his tats having a spiral shape.

-theres two schools of thought going around in regard to #7 attacking the regular. either ink & co are wiping out all the lone woofs to "thin the heard" ... or #7 is working on his own, controlling his territory, with each of the numbered ones controlling an area. I like both these ideas. but ill throw out another idea.
what if the little ones need something in the regulars body to survive? the raised levels of keratin are a byproduct of whatevers going on when people turn, so for now(and pretty much everything going forward) im ignoring the entire k18 thing. but, what if the follistatin is actually something they(inklings/little ones) need to maintain their growth? it seems a bit ridiculous, but stranger things have happened in this show.

-all this "armchair scientist" stuff has taken me down a lot of fun roads, and I continue that this week.
http://quest.mda.org/news/md-briefs-gene-therapy-exon-skipping-stem-cells
so follistatin is also useful in stem cell research? this rabbithole keeps getting weirder.......

perhaps the little ones could have been "grown" after all...:tinfoil:

-WHERE THE FUCK DID THE HAZE GO!?!?!?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki
I found this to be very interesting reading, while likely it has NOTHING to do with what happened to the haze, it is interesting nonetheless to see that things like this have happened in real life. another thing to consider is theres a storm rolling in at the time vic and Tanya are at ground zero. what affects could barometric pressures have on the haze? we haven't had rain in the story since early on. that seems VERY strange to me considering where the story is taking place(admittedly, that could just be a storytelling thing).

- I know we really have to go by what Michael tells us when describing the transport van. and im sure Michael would be able to tell the difference between "broken in" and "broken out" ....but I personally wonder...something about that all just seems fishy to me. I would MUCH rather believe ink busted himself out than a bunch of freshly turned biters broke in to get at him. the man is the daddy of the inklings after all...

basically where im at right now is all the info we have been given is awesome. the thing I have to keep in mind is at this point Michael & co are just like the rest of us on here. anything said in the chapter (and the chapter previous) that sounds like an opinion....is just that, opinion. basically if its not stated as fact, I don't believe it. for two years now KC has been stringing us along with the idea that "bill Roberts/ink/towtm/pinstripes" may not be the same person just because of the way he was described by the characters....character opinion. REMEMBER THAT GOING FORWARD! :)

I think in the future, im just going to take the role nikvoodoo did in days past (at least in the chapter discussions) throw out your theories and ill shoot holes at 'em til something works. im saving real theories for the uber theories thread. (that's kinda what nik used to do, right?) ah well.....


have fun...or else
todd out

Footbutt
Nov 19th, 2013, 04:16 AM
So Ink got his tatoos from a fellow inmate/patient... perhaps his "Markings" are to identify him to the zombies as "The One They Should Follow"?
i mean, you gotta think that one of the reasons he's still alive and in command is due to a collective respect/idenification among the zeds, right?
TOTSF, haha.

Grognaurd
Nov 19th, 2013, 04:56 AM
Lock and Load 7id

Early on, I posed a theory that biters 1.0 have an area of affect sleep spell. Maybe it is just wha soldiers do, sleep whenever they get the chance, but everyone is doing stuff and the Irwin soldiers are sleeping. The third trimester pregnant lady is welding for the .50 cal and the crew chief is sleeping? Puck was ambushed by a pack and he sleeps so soundly he does not even have a line at Dunbar.

Beserkers that can soak up a lot of damage and get close enough to kill and make the opposition force sleepy so spec ops troops can mop up is one hell of a biological warfare weapon.

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 05:02 AM
Good post 7odd! (as usual)

The schizophrenia thing has been rolling to the top for me ever since I first listened to this episode. Specifically as you pointed out the paranoid schizo aspects of "having delusions and hearing things that aren't real"

Just because other people don't see/hear the things you do, does that make them "not real"? Hmmm.....

Chapter title - we know that Kc loved multiple meanings in the titles so I think we have the same thing this time too
1) Tanya and Saul would be considered monsters if people learned about the possibility of turning - Vic now knows. Who else will find out?
2) "Monsters from Eastern Bay" as CJ called them - will we one or more Mallers (I'm looking to hear Scratches voice at the end of 40-3)
3) Little Ones sure seem like monsters to Team Human - as Robbins says "Oh really!?!? Cuz I seem to remember a lot of families coming into Boulder that didn't do shit and were still attacked... These things will f'n kill you where you stand for no reason!"
4) Ink seems to be a Monster as well if he is creating the super Z and trying to control and/or wipe out the humans - but that's Monster singular, not plural....

I know I said the Father/Son theory was shot all to hell earlier, I think it might be. But I'm not yet willing to fully let go of the Ink/TOWTM/Pinstripes/Z-Commander are all just one guy. Mental issues could explain the differences in behavior observed in the Tower when Burt shot him and elsewhere (like the hospital where he snatched the arrow in flight). But I still think there may be "Monsters" there....

Food for thought.

skankyfish
Nov 19th, 2013, 06:00 AM
I think Ink is very very aware of his life before turning. I think it was Witch Doctor that pointed out one thing that got me thinking tonight. His Eyes. He is the only turned one that has normal eyes. I think that is a big deal. A Sign that the lights are on up stairs. He has it more together than the others. We know he can read, write, speak, make complex traps (He pushed the cars together to make a dead end/kill zone), control himself (when the others attack they are rage machines and animals. He thinks. Played possum. Took his time getting in. Even smiled at the group in the hospital, Ect), control other Zombies, mix chemicals to make badder Zombies, and more. Hell...even his suit is well kept (Not in tatters). I think he is 100% in control and aware of what he was then and what he is now. I truly believe that is why his eyes are normal.

As for the Arena... if what I think is true is well... true... then he isn't going on instinct. Kelly even said that it seems that the assaults seemed like retaliation. That means you are planning and thinking. I think the Arena was just a place to hold the mass Horde. The reason why, I think, isn't important in story. He was a Hockey fan. That is where he caught his wife. He sold some stuff to some guys. I think that in the end he choose the place because it was big, and it was a pit. A place he can see everyone and keep control. A place where his people can eat, drink, and fight in games. I think he choose The Arena because he wanted to feel like a ruler. You can have your people play and fight with normals in the street, a garage, even The Hospital. He choose a place that is our times version of a Colosseum. I think it was because he has it all together (As much as a Zombie Crazy Man can) and he wanted to feel like a King.

I'm 100% behind all of this; great analysis.

One thing I still don't get - maybe I'm missing something - is why was the crime scene tape still at Radon? We hear Michael say something like "that explains why his office was all locked up" (and it does, he's right), but it doesn't explain the tape. I would expect the crime scene tape to go up immediately that there was some implication that there was evidence there, and then for a forensic team to sweep in asap to strip the place. I still feel like the only explanation is that there's been some recent development in the case (just before Z-day) that meant the authorities suddenly thought it was worth looking into.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 07:11 AM
Well, this week's courthouse. Was it placed in Ingelwood? I missed it.

I don't think you missed anything. I keep listening over and over to see if they mention a street or anything that would hint to location. I got nothing. Kelly only mentions that she has an idea of which courthouse it might be. Other than that, just a google search of L.A. courthouses show that there \are two in Inglewood.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 07:55 AM
Are we sure that Ink is actually turned? I could have missed it somewhere in the story but I see a lot of people saying he is the only turned one with normal eyes. I had personally pictured him as never turning at all. But if that is the case then it leaves us with a few questions..........

1) If Ink is not turned. Is he/was he behind the explosion that caused the turning??? If so, did he know how to keep himself from turning(antibiotics, etc, etc)? So did Ink somehow set up the explosion knowing that he would not turn, and knowing that he would be able to control those who did??? Meaning even if the explosion happened and he was locked up in a transport vehicle, he could call his minions to bust him out.

2) If Ink is turned. Was the explosion just merely something that happened??? And Ink became the person we see now after being bitten?? Did something in his medication from the mental ward keep him from fully turning???

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:00 AM
- I know we really have to go by what Michael tells us when describing the transport van. and im sure Michael would be able to tell the difference between "broken in" and "broken out" ....but I personally wonder...something about that all just seems fishy to me. I would MUCH rather believe ink busted himself out than a bunch of freshly turned biters broke in to get at him. the man is the daddy of the inklings after all...

have fun...or else
todd out

I keep thinking along the same lines; that possibly he was turned or turning during transport. Yet, Micheal says that there were dents along the rear of the van, and the glass in the windows were broken into, implying that it was attacked from outside. Another interesting thing is that there is never any mention of wounds or scars on Ink, other that the bullet holes in his shirt and the hand that Burt shot. So, if he was attacked and turned, how? Did they scratch him? Bite his finger? Spit in his eye? Maybe tuned a la Saul? That is, contact from blood on a bullet that passed through a biter. (But still, was he wounded?) Maybe no one notices any injuries on him because no one could afford to spend the time giving him a body search when their ass is on the line.




I'm not fully convinced he's turned, just master to the "monsters". Dr Frankenstein and his creations maybe. Why assume he was turned when the van was ripped apart? It seems more likely they were just breaking him out of jail.

Or, he was turning in the van and he broke out himself. The biggest problem with this is how would Micheal & Kelly figure this out? Any evidence left over that could imply that this happened? Any surviving witnesses?

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:16 AM
Not sure if this will lead someone else to anything. But I was wondering if there was any significance to the name of the guy Ink paid off...... Kowen? Cowan?? Cohen??? not sure on the spelling, but it just seemed weird to me that Kelly took the time to fully explain that little bit.....

Maybe a clue??

tonyhind86
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:17 AM
Or is he in mid-transition, and the shopping lists he compiled for the ingredients at Raydon Labs are for a substance/remedy that prevents him from turning fully?

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:22 AM
Ink turned vs not turned - true we have no evidence either way. On the "clear eyes" thing, don't the little ones have clear eyes as well? They are obviously "turned" in some way shape or form but they aren't normal biters, for sure.

We know that Ink isn't fully bulletproof since Burt put a hole in his hand and we don't know for sure that Ink is bulletproof at all because their is the plausible theory that he could have body armor on under his suit (since they often armor prisoners in transport or he may have had access to get some due to his proximity to armed guards during his transport). So there is an argument for not being turned there (i.e., he's not bulletproof like the Little Ones). But he does have some pretty superhuman physical abilities: jumping out of the Tower and running off very fast, getting to the top of the gate at the Colony, possibly dodging fire from Saul's rifle, and jumping down from the gate and running off again.

In the end, I think Ink has something from Zday in him. Fully turned or partially turned or whatever, he is definitely different from the run-of-the-mill biter and is (IMO) involved in the making of the other special Z's and the Little Ones.

I am very curious as to how more of Ink's backstory will be revealed. I have serious doubts that we have any witnesses to the breakout amongst our main characters. Slim chance that someone from the Colony knows something. Could be CJ knowing how tight she is with intel and probably not wanting to encourage Michael on his quest - she might spill some beans if they relay these findings back to her. But I'm thinking very slim chance on that....

My main guesses on where we get more info on Ink's history? Ink himself (villain monologue perhaps?), Skittles, or Randy....

tonyhind86
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:29 AM
If they double-check the mental facility or the courthouse, they may find some sort of transcripts from interviews, or even a video of him being studied by a psychiatrist. The fact that he can communicate with the other biters and has a level of super-human abilities does imply that he is, in some shape or form, turned. Then again, his ability to speak, write and his intelligence suggests otherwise.

skankyfish
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:30 AM
Not sure if this will lead someone else to anything. But I was wondering if there was any significance to the name of the guy Ink paid off...... Kowen? Cowan?? Cohen??? not sure on the spelling, but it just seemed weird to me that Kelly took the time to fully explain that little bit.....

Maybe a clue??

I heard it as Cohen. My friend was wondering this, and she suggested that maybe his first name is...Randy? KC doesn't seem to do anything by accident, so if it wasn't important who did the tattoos surely it would have been "his cell mate" or "another inmate". Naming him seems...intentional.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:32 AM
I wondered where they got all their information from? *cough* newspapers *cough* :D

Clear eyes? I think it all the meds he was probably on that kept him from completely turning. If Tanya and Saul are highly resistance to the virus why can other through other means?

#7 ? I think they are now thinning the herd. There probably not enough "food" to go around. And lone wolf are probably mindless change other to more zombie. P(Ink) has order that all lone wolf be destroy to prevent this.

Grognaurd
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:35 AM
Not sure if this will lead someone else to anything. But I was wondering if there was any significance to the name of the guy Ink paid off...... Kowen? Cowan?? Cohen??? not sure on the spelling, but it just seemed weird to me that Kelly took the time to fully explain that little bit.....

Maybe a clue??

I thought about it, I did not come up with anything. My guess is there will be a first name / last name link that we have not parsed yet.

Duncan Cohen has a nice ring to it...

skankyfish
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:43 AM
Clear eyes? I think it all the meds he was probably on that kept him from completely turning. If Tanya and Saul are highly resistance to the virus why can other through other means?


I'm not sure how I feel about his meds keeping him from turning. If it's an infection, then Saul being saved by antibiotics makes sense, but anti-psychotic meds of the kind you'd use in schizophrenia don't. Anti-psychotic drugs have a wide range of targets in the brain; they're largely dopamine antagonists but some also affect serotonin, histamine, and adrenergic pathways. *Maybe* at a stretch they wouldn't stop him turning, but might help preserve some brain function, but even that doesn't feel right to me.

Tl;dr, I don't think it's Bill's schizophrenia meds that stopped him from turning completely.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:45 AM
I thought about it, I did not come up with anything. My guess is there will be a first name / last name link that we have not parsed yet.

Duncan Cohen has a nice ring to it...

I can agree with this...... whatever gets us more skittles!

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:46 AM
As far as if Ink has turned or not, Skittles says that he's not a person anymore. This makes me wonder a couple of things.
1) Could there have been other things smuggled into the jail inside of those ball point pens? Kelly says that the authorities were investigating how the stuff was smuggled in. What stuff, ink pens? There seemed to be a lot of concern over ink pens. (The article says that the tattoos were inflicted, as if he was inked against his will. But, why would he pay someone to do it if he didn't want it done?) I think that maybe chemicals from his lab were in the ink pens.

2) If the pens contained performance enhancement drugs (perhaps to make himself a bad ass in jail or to increase his strength in order to jail break himself) then this would explain why there was police tape on his office door on Z-day. Remember, he committed the crimes in Santa Monica. Why would his office be a crime seen? Of course, they could have suspected that he may have left evidence there; murder weapon, bloody glove, photos of his wife and Jack Tripper. Also, the article says that it was to be determined if the tattooing would delay the hearing. I doubt that jail house tattoos are so uncommon that it would hold up a court appearance. But, the simplest explanation would be that the police tape was put there just prior to Z-day because they were investigating how chemicals were removed from there and smuggled into the jail.

3) Perhaps the drugs affected the way the Z-cooties work, limiting the effect on how, and/or how much he turns. He realized this and started to experiment with the chemicals and zombies. Maybe even ground zero.
Examples:

Some chemicals used on regular zombies increases their speed, others give them jumping abilities, others give the size and strength.
The chemicals are either used on those turned by biters and/or those turned at ground zero. Remember, Kalani said that CJ's convoy people said that the strange creatures came from there.
The super mod zombies, i.e. runners, jumpers behemoths... are still dumb zombies. So he decides to start fresh with unturned babies.
He experiments on infecting people and/or babies after giving them his Marion Jones Juice or Lance Armstrong Elixir. As opposed to drugging already infected people.
They turn, but retain some intelligence and their eye color. JUST LIKE HIM!

:tinfoil:

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:49 AM
If they double-check the mental facility or the courthouse, they may find some sort of transcripts from interviews, or even a video of him being studied by a psychiatrist. The fact that he can communicate with the other biters and has a level of super-human abilities does imply that he is, in some shape or form, turned. Then again, his ability to speak, write and his intelligence suggests otherwise.


This would bring Lizzy's PhD into the fold.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:50 AM
I'm not sure how I feel about his meds keeping him from turning. If it's an infection, then Saul being saved by antibiotics makes sense, but anti-psychotic meds of the kind you'd use in schizophrenia don't. Anti-psychotic drugs have a wide range of targets in the brain; they're largely dopamine antagonists but some also affect serotonin, histamine, and adrenergic pathways. *Maybe* at a stretch they wouldn't stop him turning, but might help preserve some brain function, but even that doesn't feel right to me.

Tl;dr, I don't think it's Bill's schizophrenia meds that stopped him from turning completely.

Wait, you said something that could be the reason why the schizophrenia meds kept him sane in a way. When one turn they go in to rage mode, right? But anti-psychotic drugs keep a person calm and sedated. So when he changed he wouldn't gone in to standard zombie mode.

ZombieWildfire
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:56 AM
I can agree with this...... whatever gets us more skittles!

If Skittles were the cell mate, would he really refer to Ink as "The coloured one" though?

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Anyone pick up the back & forth between Carl and Robbins? Robbins even refers to Carl by his first name, as if he's he is no longer acknowledging Carl as a soldier anymore. There is quite a bit of tension building up between these two.

skankyfish
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:59 AM
Wait, you said something that could be the reason why the schizophrenia meds kept him sane in a way. When one turn they go in to rage mode, right? But anti-psychotic drugs keep a person calm and sedated. So when he changed he wouldn't gone in to standard zombie mode.

But when he stopped taking the meds, the effect would wear off, so unless it's those first few hours that dictate how you're affected that just doesn't quite feel right still. Anti-psychotics *have* been referred to as "a chemical cosh" - that is they can make people dopey and compliant if the dose is wrong, or the drug doesn't suit them. I'm not discounting this line of thinking, it just doesn't feel right in my gut (though my gut is often wrong).

tonyhind86
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:01 AM
Anyone pick up the back & forth between Carl and Robbins? Robbins even refers to Carl by his first name, as if he's he is no longer acknowledging Carl as a soldier anymore. There is quite a bit of tension building up between these two.

I noticed this too. At first, I thought it was just a bit of banter, similar to Saul and Victor, but now it does seem like it's getting a bit more serious

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:07 AM
If Skittles were the cell mate, would he really refer to Ink as "The coloured one" though?

:cool:
I thought you were making a joke about a guy named Skittles calling someone else colored.:nyanr:

ZombieWildfire
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:09 AM
Okay, I have no idea where to start with this episode.

One thought re the zombie attacks:

-Kelly and Carl discuss how *some* of the Zs attacks appear to be in retaliation.
-Bill Roberts, possible creators of the Little Ones, attacked and killed in retaliation.
-#7 attacks the regular. for all we know in... retaliation?

Is there a nature/ nurture sort of thing going on here? some connection? goodness only knows.

I feel like we've gotten loads of information in this episode but just, just not enough to start *really* putting the pieces in place.

Wild crackpot tinfoil hat theory: Randy is the man Ink's wife was cheating with. Something about the wife was pregnant/ infertile/ Ink wanted kids or something or the other, decides to make his own in the Little Ones.

Monsters: initially I was sure this would refer to the Mallers and we would see Burt and Riley again. Are the Little Ones turning into monsters now that they have 'outgrown' Roberts or something? again, no idea.

The Inglewood haze has gone- does this give weight to the idea that it is something produced by humans?

And many other daft and ridiculous theories based on the most intangible of things. I love how the characters speak to each other in this episode and the humour.

ZombieWildfire
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:11 AM
:cool:
I thought you were making a joke about a guy named Skittles calling someone else colored.:nyanr:

Hahah no, just surely he would be more specific about referring to tattoos if he had actually done them himself. Or something. Not that Skittles, at that point, is in the most rational frame of mind of course.

ZombieWildfire
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:19 AM
The description of Bill Roberts interests me too:

"...he is unstable and could succumb to outside stressors..."
In the grand scheme of outside stressors, a zombie apocalypse would probably rate as fairly stressful, I would say.

"We feel he is lucid, but could lose control, either on purpose or otherwise"
This seems a pretty odd sort of description to me. anyone else think so? It managed to be both extremely vague and weirdly specific.

ZombieWildfire
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:24 AM
I don't think you missed anything. I keep listening over and over to see if they mention a street or anything that would hint to location. I got nothing. Kelly only mentions that she has an idea of which courthouse it might be. Other than that, just a google search of L.A. courthouses show that there \are two in Inglewood.


If it was the courthouse in Inglewood, wouldn't they have been a bot more suspicious about going there? They would have taken breathing equipment etc, surely, as they don't know at this point that the haze has cleared up. Michael would also surely use that as his reasoning as to why he wouldnt be expecting many zs there, given they seemed to avoid the area too.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:25 AM
The description of Bill Roberts interests me too:

"...he is unstable and could succumb to outside stressors..."
In the grand scheme of outside stressors, a zombie apocalypse would probably rate as fairly stressful, I would say.

"We feel he is lucid, but could lose control, either on purpose or otherwise"
This seems a pretty odd sort of description to me. anyone else think so? It managed to be both extremely vague and weirdly specific.

Yep, who loses control on purpose?

Grognaurd
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:27 AM
Yep, who loses control on purpose?

Doctor David Banner

skankyfish
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:29 AM
Doctor David Banner

I don't think we'd like Ink when he's angry :-S

Elisa
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:34 AM
Are we sure that Ink is actually turned? I could have missed it somewhere in the story but I see a lot of people saying he is the only turned one with normal eyes. I had personally pictured him as never turning at all. But if that is the case then it leaves us with a few questions..........

1) If Ink is not turned. Is he/was he behind the explosion that caused the turning??? If so, did he know how to keep himself from turning(antibiotics, etc, etc)? So did Ink somehow set up the explosion knowing that he would not turn, and knowing that he would be able to control those who did??? Meaning even if the explosion happened and he was locked up in a transport vehicle, he could call his minions to bust him out.

2) If Ink is turned. Was the explosion just merely something that happened??? And Ink became the person we see now after being bitten?? Did something in his medication from the mental ward keep him from fully turning???

Oh crap and are Saul and Tanya from the same ilk?????

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:36 AM
I noticed this too. At first, I thought it was just a bit of banter, similar to Saul and Victor, but now it does seem like it's getting a bit more serious

I thought they always called him Carl. Now, Robbins was definitely upset at the whole discussion. I mean, let's face it, he watched a whole bunch of these things slaughter people. He doesn't like the idea of the thing he hates being made into something rationale or justified. And then to have "one of his own" in Carl take the side of the enemy (in Robbins' eyes) puts those two soldiers at odds. I'm wondering if this is going to be story tension or if it's just character tension? Meaning is it tension that will impact the storyline directly or is it the tension that just helps the characters be more real.... (there are probably actual terms that writers use for stuff like this but I don't know what they are)

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:38 AM
If they double-check the mental facility or the courthouse, they may find some sort of transcripts from interviews, or even a video of him being studied by a psychiatrist. The fact that he can communicate with the other biters and has a level of super-human abilities does imply that he is, in some shape or form, turned. Then again, his ability to speak, write and his intelligence suggests otherwise.

Good call. I've felt like we will end up back at the hospital before it's all over. The trail seems to be leading us in that direction for sure now....

skankyfish
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:41 AM
Good call. I've felt like we will end up back at the hospital before it's all over. The trail seems to be leading us in that direction for sure now....

I agree. I happened to just listen to that episode yesterday, and the descriptions of the tattoo gun sitting in pools of ink and blood really started my brain whizzing. Who was tattooed there? Ink? Little Ones? Both?

ZombieWildfire
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:46 AM
1) If Ink is not turned. Is he/was he behind the explosion that caused the turning??? If so, did he know how to keep himself from turning(antibiotics, etc, etc)? So did Ink somehow set up the explosion knowing that he would not turn, and knowing that he would be able to control those who did??? Meaning even if the explosion happened and he was locked up in a transport vehicle, he could call his minions to bust him out.


My initial theory, apropos of very little was that Ink knew something was coming, and was worried that if he turned he would forget all of the knowledge he thought he would need- hence the last minute tattoos, which were a way of ensuring that he wouldnt lose his notes, no matter what.

Sort of like writing on your arm to cheat in an exam I guess. The problem with that theory, of course, is that head and hands seem to be a rather odd choice of where to put the tattoos. And he seems to have finished off the job with the tattoo gun in the mental ward of the hospital.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:56 AM
My initial theory, apropos of very little was that Ink knew something was coming, and was worried that if he turned he would forget all of the knowledge he thought he would need- hence the last minute tattoos, which were a way of ensuring that he wouldnt lose his notes, no matter what.

Sort of like writing on your arm to cheat in an exam I guess. The problem with that theory, of course, is that head and hands seem to be a rather odd choice of where to put the tattoos. And he seems to have finished off the job with the tattoo gun in the mental ward of the hospital.

I guess a camera and mirror could solve that but yes it's very awkward.

FenixArc
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:05 AM
Coming out of a long time of forum lurking for this...

Surprised I didn't see anyone mention it yet. Following the double entendre suspected of many chapter names, what if another group of "Monsters" are the surviving humans? Kelly just mentioned that at least some of the attacks seem to be in retaliation. My first thought was the movie Starship Troopers. During the whole film we are indoctrinated to believe that the bugs are the enemy, the bugs are evil, the bugs will stop at nothing to destroy humanity. Watch the movie a little bit closer (or read into the conspiracy theories at least) and it's not so black and white.

Do I really think that's the intended meaning of the title? Not necessarily, but I don't think it's any more tin foil hatted than some other stuff flying around.

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:13 AM
So Ink got his tatoos from a fellow inmate/patient... perhaps his "Markings" are to identify him to the zombies as "The One They Should Follow"?
i mean, you gotta think that one of the reasons he's still alive and in command is due to a collective respect/idenification among the zeds, right?
TOTSF, haha.

Don't forget: Strange symbols were on sheets of papers in Ink's office at Raydon Labs as well. So Ink's connection to strange symbols seems to date back into pre-zombocalypse-times. Maybe and considering the nature of strange symbols this might be kind of an esoterically fueled supersticion-thing going on in Ink.


I don't think you missed anything. I keep listening over and over to see if they mention a street or anything that would hint to location. I got nothing. Kelly only mentions that she has an idea of which courthouse it might be. Other than that, just a google search of L.A. courthouses show that there \are two in Inglewood.

Sure. But at the time Kelly and guys show up at the court, they still think that the haze at Ground Zero exists; and Ground Zero - as I see it on the map - would be quite close to these two courts; so I guess it is fairly unlikely that Kelly and the soldiers are at one of these two courts ...


Are we sure that Ink is actually turned? I could have missed it somewhere in the story but I see a lot of people saying he is the only turned one with normal eyes. I had personally pictured him as never turning at all. But if that is the case then it leaves us with a few questions.......... *snip*

Good questions (the snipped part of your posting). But I think Ink is turned; and evidence is right in front of you: a) he killed Paul in the Tower, b) although being hit by a bullet into his chest in the Tower, he got up again and started running, c) he jumped out of the Tower's second or third floor (in which one was Burt's armory?), d) he ran at a crazy speed away from the Tower, e) he snatched an arrow shot by Riley out of the air ...
No - he is not a human being anymore. It might be the shell of a human, but he has changed in many ways similar to what we have seen on other zombs, so he is a zomb.

--------------------

Paranoid schizophrenics - they do get medical treatment like pills and shit, right? Would things like this have allowed Ink to remain partially human and thus self-aware and half way down the self-control to allow him to become the zombie-lord of LA?

Best wishes!
Liam

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:14 AM
Oh crap and are Saul and Tanya from the same ilk?????

Well, I'm assuming Tanya gave herself the antibiotic ASAP. Saul got it WEEKS after his exposure.

Then again, maybe the antibiotics doesn't affect the Z-cooties.

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:19 AM
Oh crap and are Saul and Tanya from the same ilk?????

Which fuels another theory I had back in my first days listening to WA and being active on this forum ... Just another parallel to the movie of "Doom" ... Imagine a certain genetic code which makes "zombs" kind of different from humans. Most humans would die when this specific code gets activated. Others (and few, compare the numbers) become animalistic monsters striving for destruction and eat and other crazy shit, while others become angels of light and fire ... It is similar in the movie of "Doom". There is a certain gene activating "the evil" and making its victim a minion of it, while on others the gene activates the good or holy spirit ... What, if Ink and his minions are "evil" becaue the zombie-gene or zombie-agent activates their evil sides, while Tanya and Saul (and others?) might be "turned" into "good" or "holy zombies"?

Best wishes!
Liam

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:21 AM
Of course, not all of the tats have to be part of a "formula" exactly. Several folks here in the forum have dug deep into figuring out what many of the tattoo symbols are and what significance they might have (check out this thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2959-Episode-Artwork-Has-Voodoo-images) and this thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos&highlight=tattoo), for example).

Many of them seem to revolve around symbology for protection and family. So they may have been chosen for the same reason that many tribal or shamanic or voodoo cultures use them - they are expected to provide some power to the wearer: power to ward off evil, power to control some force, luck, curses, and on and on.

But, this doesn't mean that some of the tats don't carry something more directly meaningful like research notes, etc. Those tats are probably more easily seen by the wearer without too much work. Say on the hands, arms, and chest. Maybe also the face (cuz mirrors are pretty common and easy to use)....

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:24 AM
Well, I'm assuming Tanya gave herself the antibiotic ASAP. Saul got it WEEKS after his exposure.

Then again, maybe the antibiotics doesn't affect the Z-cooties.

Yes, but Saul was on other drugs to subdue the pain from the wound. That could be the reason he didn't change.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:24 AM
Good questions (the snipped part of your posting). But I think Ink is turned; and evidence is right in front of you: a) he killed Paul in the Tower, b) although being hit by a bullet into his chest in the Tower, he got up again and started running, c) he jumped out of the Tower's second or third floor (in which one was Burt's armory?), d) he ran at a crazy speed away from the Tower, e) he snatched an arrow shot by Riley out of the air ...
No - he is not a human being anymore. It might be the shell of a human, but he has changed in many ways similar to what we have seen on other zombs, so he is a zomb.

--------------------

Paranoid schizophrenics - they do get medical treatment like pills and shit, right? Would things like this have allowed Ink to remain partially human and thus self-aware and half way down the self-control to allow him to become the zombie-lord of LA?

Best wishes!
Liam

Yes, but he could have gotten his super human abilities from super juicing. I'm leaning towards Ink doping up onMarion Jones Juice before becoming exposed to Z-cooties. Making him some sort of bad ass Zombo-sapean.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:29 AM
Of course, not all of the tats have to be part of a "formula" exactly. Several folks here in the forum have dug deep into figuring out what many of the tattoo symbols are and what significance they might have (check out this thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2959-Episode-Artwork-Has-Voodoo-images) and this thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos&highlight=tattoo), for example).

Many of them seem to revolve around symbology for protection and family. So they may have been chosen for the same reason that many tribal or shamanic or voodoo cultures use them - they are expected to provide some power to the wearer: power to ward off evil, power to control some force, luck, curses, and on and on.

But, this doesn't mean that some of the tats don't carry something more directly meaningful like research notes, etc. Those tats are probably more easily seen by the wearer without too much work. Say on the hands, arms, and chest. Maybe also the face (cuz mirrors are pretty common and easy to use)....

What I find the most fascinating is that some of the tattoos (based on the story artwork) are occult in nature. You could even think of them as being relevant to mythological zombie creations. He got these tattoos PRIOR to Z-day, as if he was expecting it!

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:38 AM
What I find the most fascinating is that some of the tattoos (based on the story artwork) are occult in nature. You could even think of them as being relevant to mythological zombie creations. He got these tattoos PRIOR to Z-day, as if he was expecting it!

Exactly! He may not have known the specifics of what was coming, but "the voices in his head" drove him to doing something. And probably something more than just tats.....

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 10:39 AM
What I find the most fascinating is that some of the tattoos (based on the story artwork) are occult in nature. You could even think of them as being relevant to mythological zombie creations. He got these tattoos PRIOR to Z-day, as if he was expecting it!

But has anyone got close enough to examine them? Even in a distance, formulas may look like something else.

clem131
Nov 19th, 2013, 11:16 AM
But has anyone got close enough to examine them? Even in a distance, formulas may look like something else.
At this stage, we don't have anything solid to tell what the tattoos are, but since Michael refers to the signs on the note at Raydon as "markings", I bet that is a hint from KC to us to guess that the markings on the one with the markings are indeed chemical formulas.

Grognaurd
Nov 19th, 2013, 11:53 AM
Look at his face...

Time and time again we see the families dessicrate the face.

Scratch
Charlie
Pippin
Gatekeeper

So, was the family marking Ink or did he do it to himself? It said inflicted, right. That would indicate he was not willing. Pretty hard to instigate a world wide pandemic from prison. But, saying there is a group of families are really an Apocalyptic cult trying to destroy the world could get you labeled as paranoid skitzo. Providing proof by showing the existence of corpse gas at Raydon Labs might get you a plea deal. The families might then have to up their time frame for z-day.

Remember, even in our current world there are people calling for the murder of 6 billion people to bring humanity back in balance with nature. Burt even comments on the roof of Lock and Loaded about how now there are so few of us things are going to chagnge. Isnt he talking about the stars? Michael talks about the pollution and being able to see that island

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 19th, 2013, 11:59 AM
Just a few thoughts on Ink's tattoo's:

They are remarkably good and precise under these circumstances - which requires some artistic skill and and a proper set of tools. Moreover, if they really contain some steganographic content, the artist has to find a good tradeoff between his artistic style of expression and how accurate the information has to be - e.g. chemical formula and so on.

However, if the tattoos serve some information purpose, I would expect them to be at locations Ink is able to look at easily. Reading something mirror inverted is not very funny...
Besides, you have to make sure that you protect these tattoos against all external destructive influences like gun shots, fire - you name it.

So are they just decoration / protection? Well, I have my doubts - Dr Roberts was a scientist, had a wife and therefor seemed to be grounded. Ah, some many questions...

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:00 PM
At this stage, we don't have anything solid to tell what the tattoos are, but since Michael refers to the signs on the note at Raydon as "markings", I bet that is a hint from KC to us to guess that the markings on the one with the markings are indeed chemical formulas.

Well, we do have this: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4152-The-special-portrait&p=56511#post56511

Verse
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:10 PM
Paranoid schizophrenics - they do get medical treatment like pills and shit, right? Would things like this have allowed Ink to remain partially human and thus self-aware and half way down the self-control to allow him to become the zombie-lord of LA?

Best wishes!
Liam

Quick Idea... we know that The Zombies are effected by chemicals. The Haze. Michael's chloroform. What is to say that Ink is still not taking his meds? That he is a Smart One (Which we Kinda already know), and knows that he needs them? Who is to say that he is nots still taking his meds? That his meds are the reason he is not nuts? Could be that that combined with him being a "Smart One" is the reason he is so much more lucid.

Also, I think the proof he is turned is the fact he controls the Zombies. We know they can tell if you are turned or not. They run in packs and don't get confused and check you out when they see you. They can tell you are, or are not, one of them. Masking your smell means they just can't track you. They still know what you are though. That being said... They don't randomly attack Ink. They follow him and listen to him. They have not done that with any none turned ones.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:11 PM
If Skittles were the cell mate, would he really refer to Ink as "The coloured one" though?

Maybe not....... but you also have to remember that Skittles has officially gone off the deep end. There is a time in Dunbar where we hear Duncan talking and thinking normal...... Then once it all goes down he loses it.

Also, Keep in mind, unless I am extremely mistaken......... Duncan is the person who let Ink into Dunbar to begin with. It could very well be that Duncan knew him and let him in, and then he was so messed up by what he did that he snapped and became the Skittles that we all know and love today.

Elisa
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:25 PM
Quick Idea... we know that The Zombies are effected by chemicals. The Haze. Michael's chloroform. What is to say that Ink is still not taking his meds? That he is a Smart One (Which we Kinda already know), and knows that he needs them? Who is to say that he is nots still taking his meds? That his meds are the reason he is not nuts? Could be that that combined with him being a "Smart One" is the reason he is so much more lucid.

Also, I think the proof he is turned is the fact he controls the Zombies. We know they can tell if you are turned or not. They run in packs and don't get confused and check you out when they see you. They can tell you are, or are not, one of them. Masking your smell means they just can't track you. They still know what you are though. That being said... They don't randomly attack Ink. They follow him and listen to him. They have not done that with any none turned ones.


True or Ink could be partially turned....

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:38 PM
Maybe not....... but you also have to remember that Skittles has officially gone off the deep end. There is a time in Dunbar where we hear Duncan talking and thinking normal...... Then once it all goes down he loses it.

Also, Keep in mind, unless I am extremely mistaken......... Duncan is the person who let Ink into Dunbar to begin with. It could very well be that Duncan knew him and let him in, and then he was so messed up by what he did that he snapped and became the Skittles that we all know and love today.

Since we learned about Dr William Isaac Roberts, I've wondered if Duncan recognized Ink at Dunbar. If Duncan knew him before the murders and didn't know about the legal stuff, then the tats would seem way out of place and probably given him pause as to letting him in, I think.

If Duncan knew him from prison and had seen him with tats then Duncan would have to have been an inmate who was released shortly before Zday (it's a possibility) and would know Ink as a violent felon. Maybe enough stuff was topsy turvy for Duncan in the post apocalyptic world that he was cool letting a convicted murderer into his home. Maybe he had some affiliation with Ink back then. Given Duncan's breakdown, maybe he had been in the mental ward at Cain with Ink....

Now that I've typed breakdown, I'm reminded of Sean's words to CJ in the Kalani flashback about her having had a past "breakdown." We don't know any more than that at the moment, but, :tinfoil: , what if CJ's breakdown was pre-Zday and earned her a stay at a particular hospital ward.... Hmmm.....

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:40 PM
And just another technical question:

Is it still valid to classify Ink as a mass murderer? "Mass murder is the act of murdering a large number of people, typically at the same time or over a relatively short period of time." (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murderer)

Has he not gone beyond the break-even-point to call him a serial killer? "A serial killer is traditionally defined as a person who has murdered three or more people[1][2] over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders.[3][4] The motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification." (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer)

Nevertheless, I have to admit that this definition lacks a solid mathematical foundation as the break-even-function is likely to have some discontinuities - e.g. "three or more", "cooling off period")

Ah, just more and more questions...

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:42 PM
And just another technical question:

Is it still valid to classify Ink as a mass murderer? "Mass murder is the act of murdering a large number of people, typically at the same time or over a relatively short period of time." (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murderer)

Has he not gone beyond the break-even-point to call him a serial killer? "A serial killer is traditionally defined as a person who has murdered three or more people[1][2] over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders.[3][4] The motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification." (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer)

Nevertheless, I have to admit that this definition lacks a solid mathematical foundation as the break-even-function is likely to have some discontinuities - e.g. "three or more", "cooling off period")

Ah, just more and more questions...

It depends on point of view and quality of the media ... Mass murder sounds so much more "infotaining" than serial killer ...

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:45 PM
Look at his face...

Time and time again we see the families desecrate the face.

Scratch
Charlie
Pippin
Gatekeeper

So, was the family marking Ink or did he do it to himself? It said inflicted, right. That would indicate he was not willing. Pretty hard to instigate a world wide pandemic from prison. But, saying there is a group of families are really an Apocalyptic cult trying to destroy the world could get you labeled as paranoid skitzo. Providing proof by showing the existence of corpse gas at Raydon Labs might get you a plea deal. The families might then have to up their time frame for z-day.

Remember, even in our current world there are people calling for the murder of 6 billion people to bring humanity back in balance with nature. Burt even comments on the roof of Lock and Loaded about how now there are so few of us things are going to change. Isn't he talking about the stars? Michael talks about the pollution and being able to see that island

Even Randy has a marking on his face now.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:48 PM
It depends on point of view and quality of the media ... Mass murder sounds so much more "infotaining" than serial killer ...

Yes, that is true. The German police does not make a difference between these two. But, it is good to know that "mass murders are very rare, far less than one percent of all murders are mass murders." Well, that is good to know, German Wikipedia, I feel relieved now. :D

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:49 PM
Since we learned about Dr William Isaac Roberts, I've wondered if Duncan recognized Ink at Dunbar. If Duncan knew him before the murders and didn't know about the legal stuff, then the tats would seem way out of place and probably given him pause as to letting him in, I think.

If Duncan knew him from prison and had seen him with tats then Duncan would have to have been an inmate who was released shortly before Zday (it's a possibility) and would know Ink as a violent felon. Maybe enough stuff was topsy turvy for Duncan in the post apocalyptic world that he was cool letting a convicted murderer into his home. Maybe he had some affiliation with Ink back then. Given Duncan's breakdown, maybe he had been in the mental ward at Cain with Ink....

Now that I've typed breakdown, I'm reminded of Sean's words to CJ in the Kalani flashback about her having had a past "breakdown." We don't know any more than that at the moment, but, :tinfoil: , what if CJ's breakdown was pre-Zday and earned her a stay at a particular hospital ward.... Hmmm.....

I thought Ducan letting Ink in was a mistake. Was he distract by someone and he didn't look at the screen at the time.

Elisa
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:52 PM
More and more I think Ink was the cause or catalyst. Not that he knew 100% what was going to happen but it really wanted to give a big FU to the world and break shite up. Just a hunch or feeling, especially for me after finding out that Ground Zero was definitely man made as the haze is gone.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:54 PM
Muldoon is hilarious!

Monster mani
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:57 PM
This is abit far off. But what of Ink was never turned. Maybe he took a mixture of thoese chemicals which turned him into something zombie-ish. But not quiet full brain muncher. We know his eyes where still green when the tower guys spotted him. And his ability to communicate with the survivors. And to perform actions such as tattooing the little ones. Indicates that he still can perform human functions. The image that was published shoes Ink in all his 3d glory. But with a rather immaculate suit. With no bite marks. This is all just me rambling. But maybe my tin foil hat theory is the same as others? Also in America fo you give murder suspects bullet/slash proof vests? That would explain the metalic clunk after Burt shot him. Perhaps the scene outside the court house was not the turning of Ink, but the setting lose of Ink.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 12:57 PM
More and more I think Ink was the cause or catalyst. Not that he knew 100% what was going to happen but it really wanted to give a big FU to the world and break shite up. Just a hunch or feeling, especially for me after finding out that Ground Zero was definitely man made as the haze is gone.

So, could be that the haze is a terror attack that happen around the world? Raydon Lab and Ink have nothing to do with the first attack just a result of it.


This is abit far off. But what of Ink was never turned. Maybe he took a mixture of thoese chemicals which turned him into something zombie-ish. But not quiet full brain muncher. We know his eyes where still green when the tower guys spotted him. And his ability to communicate with the survivors. And to perform actions such as tattooing the little ones. Indicates that he still can perform human functions. The image that was published shoes Ink in all his 3d glory. But with a rather immaculate suit. With no bite marks. This is all just me rambling. But maybe my tin foil hat theory is the same as others? Also in America fo you give murder suspects bullet/slash proof vests? That would explain the metalic clunk after Burt shot him. Perhaps the scene outside the court house was not the turning of Ink, but the setting lose of Ink.

I thinking Ink is turned. It would be hard to walk through the horde with smell like a human. Also he got a bullet to the hand from Burt, hard to continue running with that much pain if he was human.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:01 PM
I tend to believe that Ink knew something was going to happen. Whether he was directly responsible for it happening, or gave someone else the knowledge/power to be able to make something happen???

It strikes me as a little more than coincidence that the explosion just so happened to be exactly when he was being transferred.....

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:04 PM
I tend to believe that Ink knew something was going to happen. Whether he was directly responsible for it happening, or gave someone else the knowledge/power to be able to make something happen???

It strikes me as a little more than coincidence that the explosion just so happened to be exactly when he was being transferred.....

By the way they stated the amount of damage done to the vehicle. I'm starting believe that he didn't know. I guess he got lucky or unlucky that day. A monster created in a state of chaos.

Monster mani
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:13 PM
I don't mean to say he's human. I sure as hell wouldnt shake his hand. But Kc has often alluded to calling them zombies. Sometimes what I think I'm trying to get at is maybe he's not zombie. Or human. But abit of both. Kind of
.... ahhh brain melt down.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:15 PM
What if the man Roberts's wife cheated with also had been Roberts' business companion (like a Tony Soprano kind of guy). Bonus idea: this man was also a member of a very "honorable" family. He maybe financed Roberts' research program on synthetical drugs which are able to boost a person's physical attributes. Unfortunately, Roberts' lost his mind after watching a very special episode of "Cheaters" and ended some people's lifespans very abrupt. After he got arrested, the family send a mole into the prison - Durai - to extract some of Roberts' information, but the time was too short. Damn, I do not know how to link z-day to that theorie in order to add the coherence needed to make it sound compelling...

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:16 PM
By the way they stated the amount of damage done to the vehicle. I'm starting believe that he didn't know. I guess he got lucky or unlucky that day. A monster created in a state of chaos.

True.

But, I also believe that Ink knew he could control the zombies from the beginning. If that is the case, the amount of damage done to the vehicle could have merely been to free him from the vehicle. Keep in mind these vehicles are used to transfer criminals and other individuals.......

If Ink knew there was going to be an explosion and knew that he could control the zombies then they could pretty much get him free from anywhere..... whether he was in jail, transport van, mental facility, etc, etc.... He could just call his zombie horde and get freed.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:17 PM
Maybe not....... but you also have to remember that Skittles has officially gone off the deep end. There is a time in Dunbar where we hear Duncan talking and thinking normal...... Then once it all goes down he loses it.

Also, Keep in mind, unless I am extremely mistaken......... Duncan is the person who let Ink into Dunbar to begin with. It could very well be that Duncan knew him and let him in, and then he was so messed up by what he did that he snapped and became the Skittles that we all know and love today.

"...the video of that man-thing in the suit, I showed you, coming in the front door. We had a system where you could be buzzed in, and unlock the entrance. Duncan it in. I'm GUESSING on accident..." -CJ, Chapter 27 Part 2, The Thirty-First.

CJ sounds dubious of Duncan/Skittles accidentally letting Ink in the Tower. I always wondered if this was a hint or a red herring. What really adds to this is that Duncan/Skittles (Dittles) is spared by the attacking zombies. He hints to this in Chapter 27 and in Chapter 17/3.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:19 PM
Guys, I think I know where all the haze when. It in the forum bc we are going wonky on theories this eps. O_o



"...the video of that man-thing in the suit, I showed you, coming in the front door. We had a system where you could be buzzed in, and unlock the entrance. Duncan it in. I'm GUESSING on accident..." -CJ, Chapter 27 Part 2, The Thirty-First.

CJ sounds dubious of Duncan/Skittles accidentally letting Ink in the Tower. I always wondered if this was a hint or a red herring. What really adds to this is that Duncan/Skittles (Dittles) is spared by the attacking zombies. He hints to this in Chapter 27 and in Chapter 17/3.

The reason I said it is bc It happen when Kanti was there. I remember that someone was late to security post and Ducan was covering for them. The breakdown was bc result of what had happen due to his careless. Ink may had mercy on him bc he was going insane.

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:27 PM
"...the video of that man-thing in the suit, I showed you, coming in the front door. We had a system where you could be buzzed in, and unlock the entrance. Duncan it in. I'm GUESSING on accident..." -CJ, Chapter 27 Part 2, The Thirty-First.

CJ sounds dubious of Duncan/Skittles accidentally letting Ink in the Tower. I always wondered if this was a hint or a red herring. What really adds to this is that Duncan/Skittles (Dittles) is spared by the attacking zombies. He hints to this in Chapter 27 and in Chapter 17/3.

My take: Red Herring.
Reason - at that time, when metabolic endproducts hit the ventilators CJ was very paranoid herself, because more and more Dunbarians went missing; CJ assumed they went away and thus betrayed her, so she had quite a strong pessimism about anyone - except for Sean.
Another reason why I think Skittles had no reason to let Ink in: Skittles hat no idea about what hell would break loose the moment he allowed Ink to enter. As the audience we learned that Ink appeared "normal", if you looked at him through a camera-system. Paul and Lizzy fell for it; why would this be any different from Skittles/ Duncan? Also keep in mind: If Duncan/ Skittles had kind of a personal connection to William/ Bill, why would he have freaked out after the fall of Dunbar and not tried to get in touch with Ink again? Instead of this he tried to keep as much distance from him and smart ones as possible; Skittles was quite "confident" in claiming Ink to be the worst zomb in LA ...
The only thing I would buy is that Duncan recognized Ink as someone he knew without knowing, though, that Ink was leading a zomb-army. So, if CJ wonders, if Skittles let him in on purpose, then this wuld be true only in the case that Skittles wanted only him in - and not a zombie-horde. No ... Let's keep it simple. For as long as we have no confirmation about any relation between Skit and Ink, as long we are not well adviced to assume too many things. So I keep it as I introduced it: red herring ...

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:27 PM
"...the video of that man-thing in the suit, I showed you, coming in the front door. We had a system where you could be buzzed in, and unlock the entrance. Duncan it in. I'm GUESSING on accident..." -CJ, Chapter 27 Part 2, The Thirty-First.

CJ sounds dubious of Duncan/Skittles accidentally letting Ink in the Tower. I always wondered if this was a hint or a red herring. What really adds to this is that Duncan/Skittles (Dittles) is spared by the attacking zombies. He hints to this in Chapter 27 and in Chapter 17/3.

Perhaps spared because of a prior connection???? :squint:

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:30 PM
I thought Ducan letting Ink in was a mistake. Was he distract by someone and he didn't look at the screen at the time.

Recall that we are getting a second hand account, well, two second hand accounts from Kalani's journal and from CJ's story. We don't have a 1st person perspective from Duncan. Maybe Duncan was like "There's my bro! I'll let him in." And then when the world came crashing down around him with a zombie horde, he just snapped cuz he let the wolf in amongst the sheep....

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:33 PM
My take: Red Herring.
Reason - at that time, when metabolic endproducts hit the ventilators CJ was very paranoid herself, because more and more Dunbarians went missing; CJ assumed they went away and thus betrayed her, so she had quite a strong pessimism about anyone - except for Sean.
Another reason why I think Skittles had no reason to let Ink in: Skittles hat no idea about what hell would break loose the moment he allowed Ink to enter. As the audience we learned that Ink appeared "normal", if you looked at him through a camera-system. Paul and Lizzy fell for it; why would this be any different from Skittles/ Duncan? Also keep in mind: If Duncan/ Skittles had kind of a personal connection to William/ Bill, why would he have freaked out after the fall of Dunbar and not tried to get in touch with Ink again? Instead of this he tried to keep as much distance from him and smart ones as possible; Skittles was quite "confident" in claiming Ink to be the worst zomb in LA ...
The only thing I would buy is that Duncan recognized Ink as someone he knew without knowing, though, that Ink was leading a zomb-army. So, if CJ wonders, if Skittles let him in on purpose, then this wuld be true only in the case that Skittles wanted only him in - and not a zombie-horde. No ... Let's keep it simple. For as long as we have no confirmation about any relation between Skit and Ink, as long we are not well adviced to assume too many things. So I keep it as I introduced it: red herring ...

+1

So, who wants to be rep'ed so that I can rep Liam again?

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:49 PM
My take: Red Herring.
Reason - at that time, when metabolic endproducts hit the ventilators CJ was very paranoid herself, because more and more Dunbarians went missing; CJ assumed they went away and thus betrayed her, so she had quite a strong pessimism about anyone - except for Sean.
Another reason why I think Skittles had no reason to let Ink in: Skittles hat no idea about what hell would break loose the moment he allowed Ink to enter. As the audience we learned that Ink appeared "normal", if you looked at him through a camera-system. Paul and Lizzy fell for it; why would this be any different from Skittles/ Duncan? Also keep in mind: If Duncan/ Skittles had kind of a personal connection to William/ Bill, why would he have freaked out after the fall of Dunbar and not tried to get in touch with Ink again? Instead of this he tried to keep as much distance from him and smart ones as possible; Skittles was quite "confident" in claiming Ink to be the worst zomb in LA ...
The only thing I would buy is that Duncan recognized Ink as someone he knew without knowing, though, that Ink was leading a zomb-army. So, if CJ wonders, if Skittles let him in on purpose, then this wuld be true only in the case that Skittles wanted only him in - and not a zombie-horde. No ... Let's keep it simple. For as long as we have no confirmation about any relation between Skit and Ink, as long we are not well adviced to assume too many things. So I keep it as I introduced it: red herring ...

I think he was trying to say that Ink used Skittles.... Not that Ink and Skittles were two masterminds working together.....

It would kinda be like if your best friend showed up at your house..... and you let him in and he killed everyone inside....... and then you lost it and went crazy..... you wouldn't go looking for him later to be friends again..... he would scare you to death and you would want to be as far away as possible.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:51 PM
My take: Red Herring.
Reason - at that time, when metabolic endproducts hit the ventilators

I'm going to have to go back and catalog all of your euphemisms for TSHTF. :cool: You had me thinking that you were going to write another Sciency article.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:54 PM
I think he was trying to say that Ink used Skittles.... Not that Ink and Skittles were two masterminds working together.....

It would kinda be like if your best friend showed up at your house..... and you let him in and he killed everyone inside....... and then you lost it and went crazy..... you wouldn't go looking for him later to be friends again..... he would scare you to death and you would want to be as far away as possible.

Yep, this is what I was getting at.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 01:58 PM
Yep, this is what I was getting at.

This would also explain Skittles commenting that "He's not like that anymore" or whatever he said to Angel, Riley and Datu.....

Skittles is letting them know that Ink isn't the same person that he knew before, that he has changed....

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 02:07 PM
This would also explain Skittles commenting that "He's not like that anymore" or whatever he said to Angel, Riley and Datu.....

Skittles is letting them know that Ink isn't the same person that he knew before, that he has changed....

Ok, that one slipped my mind.

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 02:12 PM
Yep, this is what I was getting at.

Yeah, well ... Sorry for maybe having misunderstood you ...

Witch_Doctor
Nov 19th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Yeah, well ... Sorry for maybe having misunderstood you ...

No, worries, buddy. Besides, you made a good point about the paranoia. That's what the forum is all about. Discussion & perspectives.

Gnex
Nov 19th, 2013, 02:30 PM
No, worries, buddy. Besides, you made a good point about the paranoia. That's what the forum is all about. Discussion & perspectives.

And tinfoil hats!!!! :tinfoil:

LiamKerrington
Nov 19th, 2013, 02:56 PM
And tinfoil hats!!!! :tinfoil:

And plenty of those ... :yay:

Elisa
Nov 19th, 2013, 02:59 PM
What do you guys think is gonna happen to Tanya and Victor? Will Tanya get caught? Wasn't Randy and perhaps Ink interested in her before?

Merlin1274
Nov 19th, 2013, 03:50 PM
I do not think they have an interest in Tanya. I think it was just a coincidence. She was there so Randy grabbed her for fresh meat for the grinder.

Alt twist.. Tanya becomes scared and Hulks out and rips the little one to shreds and then turns back to good ole Snippy Tanya.. Victor just stares off into space for several days not believing what he just witnessed..

What I think happens.. They miraculously get a away from the little in time to toss an air take at it and as soon as it picks it up Vic shoots it Jaws style and blows up #7.. Then its mama comes back looking for revenge..

Merlin1274
Nov 19th, 2013, 03:54 PM
I do not think they have an interest in Tanya. I think it was just a coincidence. She was there so Randy grabbed her for fresh meat for the grinder.
Unless they know she has some sort a immunity but at that stage unlikely unless Ink or Randy is the one that bit her or they witnessed it.. But I think all that maybe far fetched but then again we are talking about "Smart" Zombies..

Eviebae
Nov 19th, 2013, 04:57 PM
Randomocity

If Ink's superior status is the result of drugs he was taking when he turned, hasn't it already been established that the Zeds acclimate to drugs or physical attacks very quickly--for instance the chloroform--even when the dose is upped? So, maybe what he was taking could have affected his outcome but taking more afterwards wouldn't. I think his need for more chemicals will turn out to be either/or to make the zombies obey him or give him control the making of other zombies.

He's not the only human in the world taking antipsychotics.

Zomboids react to the smell of human sweat but hey ignored Skittles (pretty sure it wasn't out of gratitude). Way back when, I pointed out he was walking around the area of arena with no protection (or sanity). I've always thought maybe something in his personal body bouquet makes him invisible to them...or maybe he sort of smells like one of them so he doesn't read as target. It will be interesting to see how the one menacing Tanya and Saul reacts to them. When Saul crashed the car, the zombies couldn't smell him (maybe because he reeked of booze) but Randy was able to smell Tanya enough to drag her with him...or perhaps he was targeting people who smelled like her.

IamPaul
Nov 19th, 2013, 05:44 PM
Awesome episode! Predictions. Either Tanya will be the first dead or Victor will be, trying to save Tanya. Victor was the only 'journal entry' voice over in that section of the episode. I am guessing the destroyed transfer van that held Ink was not destroyed by zombies, but by an already turned Ink, breaking out.

Hellbringer
Nov 19th, 2013, 08:35 PM
Whoops! Sorry for the missing thread! Got way too distracted at work this morning!

You got distracted? I finally got a chance to listen the episode this afternoon, and at last count, there's 17 pages for me to sift through.

College and work... this has been a busy two weeks for me.

scbubba
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:01 PM
Randomocity

If Ink's superior status is the result of drugs he was taking when he turned, hasn't it already been established that the Zeds acclimate to drugs or physical attacks very quickly--for instance the chloroform--even when the dose is upped? So, maybe what he was taking could have affected his outcome but taking more afterwards wouldn't. I think his need for more chemicals will turn out to be either/or to make the zombies obey him or give him control the making of other zombies.

He's not the only human in the world taking antipsychotics.

Zomboids react to the smell of human sweat but hey ignored Skittles (pretty sure it wasn't out of gratitude). Way back when, I pointed out he was walking around the area of arena with no protection (or sanity). I've always thought maybe something in his personal body bouquet makes him invisible to them...or maybe he sort of smells like one of them so he doesn't read as target. It will be interesting to see how the one menacing Tanya and Saul reacts to them. When Saul crashed the car, the zombies couldn't smell him (maybe because he reeked of booze) but Randy was able to smell Tanya enough to drag her with him...or perhaps he was targeting people who smelled like her.
I agree with you on the fact that other humans in the world were taking anti-psychotic drugs and probably a bunch were one the exact same ones as Ink, too. So I think we can rule out any of his psych meds as being a sole factor for his special situation.

From the info we just learned about the timing and circumstances of his tats, he may have been preparing for something (real or imagined). What if those ink pens had more than just ink in them? Perhaps some sort of special Raydon Roberts cocktail for superhuman performance.....

Mix that stuff with his psych state and the <whatever is the actual cause of Zday> and you might just get super Z man!

As for ignoring and/or leaving people alone like Duncan & CJ, not sure yet. Maybe something about Duncan's physiology made the normal biters think he was one of them (Skittles seemed really afraid of the special ones though). Or maybe Duncan has a tie to Ink we don't know about yet....

Hellbringer
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:30 PM
"Seven" pouncing on the regular zombie... First thought was "oh wow!"
Second thought was "no, the joke goes "six was afraid because seven 'ate' nine" not "Vic and Tanya were afraid because seven ate a poor ole regular zombie dude."
Third thought was about Monica from "Friends."

But seriously, great episode, KC!

Now something that caught my ear, and this doesn't help anyone's theories at all so it'll probably go unnoticed, but when everyone was arguing while Michael was radioing back... the whole conversation sounded similar to several arguments I've had around me in regard to how the Middle East and South Asia should be handled. I'm not tossing this out there to draw up political escalations, but if you change a word or two, it can be very topical for today, or even the last 12 years. This line of thinking got me comparing KC to Christopher Nolan with his Batman trilogy because CN did that with the themes of those movies.

Hopefully, KC isn't going to go all Inception on us with the information that we got to hear in this particular episode; that would be crazy.

Red Shirt
Nov 19th, 2013, 09:43 PM
Ink killed his Wife, Wife's Lover, and Wife's Lover's Family...

That's a very mafioso/goodfellas/FAMILY way of conducting business.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceGF3M56bE

Well, I don't know if you could say he was "doing time" there, but he did at least spend time at Eastern Bay. Where we know at least two of The Family were doing time.


Well...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AStormIsComing

...aaand chapter WA 40 already has an entry on that page.


Not sure if this will lead someone else to anything. But I was wondering if there was any significance to the name of the guy Ink paid off...... Kowen? Cowan?? Cohen??? not sure on the spelling, but it just seemed weird to me that Kelly took the time to fully explain that little bit.....

Maybe a clue??

My guess is on Cohen as the spelling. It is Hebrew for "priest." Those tattoos are certainly ritualistic... but for what ritual(s)?
Clue? Dead lead at the moment... I just went through the Maller section of the Wiki to double check and didn't turn up anything new.

daveyman23
Nov 19th, 2013, 11:34 PM
Look at his face...

Time and time again we see the families dessicrate the face.

Scratch
Charlie
Pippin
Gatekeeper

So, was the family marking Ink or did he do it to himself? It said inflicted, right. That would indicate he was not willing. Pretty hard to instigate a world wide pandemic from prison. But, saying there is a group of families are really an Apocalyptic cult trying to destroy the world could get you labeled as paranoid skitzo. Providing proof by showing the existence of corpse gas at Raydon Labs might get you a plea deal. The families might then have to up their time frame for z-day.

Remember, even in our current world there are people calling for the murder of 6 billion people to bring humanity back in balance with nature. Burt even comments on the roof of Lock and Loaded about how now there are so few of us things are going to chagnge. Isnt he talking about the stars? Michael talks about the pollution and being able to see that island

This is an interesting thought. Perhaps there is a connection between the families and Ink/Bill Roberts/TOWTM/whatever which would explain their supreme amount of luck when dealing with "them." But then why would Durai plan an assault on the arena? Hmmm....

Z Sniper
Nov 20th, 2013, 12:19 AM
What do you guys think is gonna happen to Tanya and Victor? Will Tanya get caught? Wasn't Randy and perhaps Ink interested in her before?

I think Tanya is going to slap #7 so hard it'll force him to stand there with a quivering lip and take a good finger wagging scolding from her. Victor will saddle that sucker up and ride 'em like a "tauntaun" all the way home.

Storm
Nov 20th, 2013, 01:58 AM
Well, at least one of them will survive to write it down... And since Victor is doing the VO I'd guess it's him... But has Tanya fulfilled her purpose yet?
Beside that, I've always been sure that Saul would be the Tink to die, not her... Or maybe 7 shouts out to them and invites them to Ink's one-year-as-a-zombie-party at the hospital.

ZombieWildfire
Nov 20th, 2013, 03:10 AM
Look at his face...

Time and time again we see the families dessicrate the face.

Scratch
Charlie
Pippin
Gatekeeper



And doesn't Randy have a marking on his face too??

scbubba
Nov 20th, 2013, 05:22 AM
I think Tanya is going to slap #7 so hard it'll force him to stand there with a quivering lip and take a good finger wagging scolding from her. Victor will saddle that sucker up and ride 'em like a "tauntaun" all the way home.

LMAO, bro!!!!

I can see the show now, Victor and Tanya roaming the post apocalyptic LA scene dolling out their own brand of justice while dropping catch phrases (Tanya's should be "Bitch, please!").

Seriously though, is there anyone Victor can't have an awesome scene with? Between Kc's writing and Otto's acting, Victor is AWESOME and is now officially tied for "favorite character in WA"....

Witch_Doctor
Nov 20th, 2013, 06:35 AM
LMAO, bro!!!!

I can see the show now, Victor and Tanya roaming the post apocalyptic LA scene dolling out their own brand of justice while dropping catch phrases (Tanya's should be "Bitch, please!").

Seriously though, is there anyone Victor can't have an awesome scene with? Between Kc's writing and Otto's acting, Victor is AWESOME and is now officially tied for "favorite character in WA"....

Couldn't agree more. Victor + (Insert W.A. character) = Awesome.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 20th, 2013, 06:38 AM
What do you guys think is gonna happen to Tanya and Victor? Will Tanya get caught? Wasn't Randy and perhaps Ink interested in her before?

Maybe something with the approaching thunderstorm. Or, heaven forbid, Scratch show up and 'saves' their asses.

Gnex
Nov 20th, 2013, 06:55 AM
Maybe something with the approaching thunderstorm. Or, heaven forbid, Scratch show up and 'saves' their asses.

Or Skittles shows up!! He has helped out in the past, and with some of these theories we need a way to get him back into the Storyline!! :excited:

Cabbage Patch
Nov 20th, 2013, 08:01 AM
But has anyone got close enough to examine them? Even in a distance, formulas may look like something else.

I'd bet that there are Police photos of the tattoos in Robert's case file.

Gnex
Nov 20th, 2013, 08:09 AM
I'd bet that there are Police photos of the tattoos in Robert's case file.

Good call on this!!!! that will let them get an up close look at the tattoos and be able to start shedding some light on what Ink is actually up to!!!

UndeadSweeper
Nov 20th, 2013, 08:10 AM
Or Skittles shows up!! He has helped out in the past, and with some of these theories we need a way to get him back into the Storyline!! :excited:

+1
I'm hoping this. But most likely a oxygen tank is going to be shot and cause a boom or a rocket-like projector heading toward #7. While Victor said " Well, that blows."


I'd bet that there are Police photos of the tattoos in Robert's case file.

Would it be in the police station or the prison? From what we heard from the Mallers no one should visit the prison.

skankyfish
Nov 20th, 2013, 08:26 AM
+1
I'm hoping this. But most likely a oxygen tank is going to be shot and cause a boom or a rocket-like projector heading toward #7. While Victor said " Well, that blows."



Would it be in the police station or the prison? From what we heard from the Mallers no one should visit the prison.

Not the prison, we know Ink was never there. Could be at the County Jail though - who knows if that's any safer?

kent17
Nov 20th, 2013, 08:37 AM
Well, I don't know if you could say he was "doing time" there, but he did at least spend time at Eastern Bay. Where we know at least two of The Family were doing time.


I don't think Ink was ever at Eastern Bay, as KC has specifically said


He was never in prison. I won't comment early on, but it's not a blooper.

Ink would have been in Jail until sentencing, which never happened.

In case some people don't know the difference, basically a Jail is for people awaiting trial and people sentenced for a short duration, typically less than a year or two. A prison is for people convicted of crimes and sentenced for a longer term.
The Mallers are definitely prisoners.

Cabbage Patch
Nov 20th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Would it be in the police station or the prison? From what we heard from the Mallers no one should visit the prison.

I think the photos would be at the courthouse. If something like the tattooing were to happen to a high profile prisoner the prosecutor would get a full report, including photos, right away. Look for his/her briefcase.

Gooer
Nov 20th, 2013, 09:03 AM
I guess this ends any theories that Ink was the one that started the whole infection, since he was turned himself by some sort of ambush....

scbubba
Nov 20th, 2013, 09:05 AM
I think the photos would be at the courthouse. If something like the tattooing were to happen to a high profile prisoner the prosecutor would get a full report, including photos, right away. Look for his/her briefcase.

Good thoughts on the photos of the tats. I'm betting that they do find these and, when they look over some of the details, notice that several of the tats are matches for the stuff on the note found at Raydon Labs.

Cuz I doubt seriously that anybody is going to get an up close examination of Ink's tats AND be alive to write about it in a journal entry.... (but I've been wrong before!)

Good stuff, CP!

UndeadSweeper
Nov 20th, 2013, 09:19 AM
I think the photos would be at the courthouse. If something like the tattooing were to happen to a high profile prisoner the prosecutor would get a full report, including photos, right away. Look for his/her briefcase.

Great Scott, you are right! Alright, in to the courthouse. If there one thing I hate more then zombie clowns are zombie lawyers. :)

@scbubba It's ok to be wrong, since if we could predict everything in this show we wouldn't be have that much fun. Btw was KC have fun with us on this eps? It seem that everything we said last week was been go through by the crew.

Grognaurd
Nov 20th, 2013, 09:20 AM
What is going to happen?

Datu is looking pretty exposed up in the wind mill / water pump. Randy might want someone to play checkers with. Does Datu get taken hostage? Does victor and or Tanya get taken? I figure someone does. We still have the call back that Saul taught Lady scent tracking. It is just so out of the blue, I figure it is important.

Is an eye for an eye enough of a retaliation for ink? It would be for Scratch. Or, does he go all Denver on the colony? The soldiers are all out, and now there is twice the area to defend with less troops that are certainly complacent.

Dunbar is also looking really vunerable and Ink had little ones for a reason...

Going :tinfoil: Burt lives in a rundown place. I always figured it was Ingelwood. I could see him and Riley based out of there. I bet he has a cool arms depot at his home. The Haze was observed by victor and Saul in late August early September. Burt and Riley left the colony in late December / early January. It may have already been gone. Going really :tinfoil: if he worked with Raydon Labs and they have a secret secure facility that merits a level 3 ID, that could be in Ingelwood. So, I see ways to have Burt and Riley save the day.

Burt and Riey. Like Drake and Vasquez with harnesses each sporting a .50 cal.

Mata gun? Meh! Walking Fire taken to the extreme. Lol, ok, too much. But good for laughs like my comment about the Playstation scene two weeks ago

UndeadSweeper
Nov 20th, 2013, 09:26 AM
What is going to happen?

Datu is looking pretty exposed up in the wind mill / water pump. Randy might want someone to play checkers with. Does Datu get taken hostage? Does victor and or Tanya get taken? I figure someone does. We still have the call back that Saul taught Lady scent tracking. It is just so out of the blue, I figure it is important.

Is an eye for an eye enough of a retaliation for ink? It would be for Scratch. Or, does he go all Denver on the colony? The soldiers are all out, and now there is twice the area to defend with less troops that are certainly complacent.

Dunbar is also looking really vunerable and Ink had little ones for a reason...

Going :tinfoil: Burt lives in a rundown place. I always figured it was Ingelwood. I could see him and Riley based out of there. I bet he has a cool arms depot at his home. The Haze was observed by victor and Saul in late August early September. Burt and Riley left the colony in late December / early January. It may have already been gone. Going really :tinfoil: if he worked with Raydon Labs and they have a secret secure facility that merits a level 3 ID, that could be in Ingelwood. So, I see ways to have Burt and Riley save the day.

Burt and Riey. Like Drake and Vasquez with harnesses each sporting a .50 cal.

Mata gun? Meh! Walking Fire taken to the extreme. Lol, ok, too much. But good for laughs like my comment about the Playstation scene two weeks ago

So why couldn't Burt and Reilly save Tanya and Victor if they lived in Inglewood now?

Grognaurd
Nov 20th, 2013, 09:46 AM
So why couldn't Burt and Reilly save Tanya and Victor if they lived in Inglewood now?

They could, maybe they do maybe they don't. Lizzy thought Saul's place near Gardenia was run down. Burt said Saul's place was the ritz compared to his place. I can use those facts to surmise Burt lived in Ingelwood and since the initial outbreak was in Ingelwood, Burt would have to fight his way through the initial outbreak to get to Lock and Loaded and thus delay his arrival. Because...

Some how, LA goes beserk. Zombies start eating people, but Scratch has time to break Latch out and then go to Lock and Loaded before Burt gets there. One last piece, doesn't Burt say that the smart one followed him and then trapped hi in the bathroom?

I can piece together snipets, but I cannot tell you what KC is going to do with them.

Gnex
Nov 20th, 2013, 10:10 AM
What is going to happen?

Datu is looking pretty exposed up in the wind mill / water pump. Randy might want someone to play checkers with. Does Datu get taken hostage? Does victor and or Tanya get taken? I figure someone does. We still have the call back that Saul taught Lady scent tracking. It is just so out of the blue, I figure it is important.

Is an eye for an eye enough of a retaliation for ink? It would be for Scratch. Or, does he go all Denver on the colony? The soldiers are all out, and now there is twice the area to defend with less troops that are certainly complacent.

Dunbar is also looking really vunerable and Ink had little ones for a reason...

Going :tinfoil: Burt lives in a rundown place. I always figured it was Ingelwood. I could see him and Riley based out of there. I bet he has a cool arms depot at his home. The Haze was observed by victor and Saul in late August early September. Burt and Riley left the colony in late December / early January. It may have already been gone. Going really :tinfoil: if he worked with Raydon Labs and they have a secret secure facility that merits a level 3 ID, that could be in Ingelwood. So, I see ways to have Burt and Riley save the day.

Burt and Riey. Like Drake and Vasquez with harnesses each sporting a .50 cal.

Mata gun? Meh! Walking Fire taken to the extreme. Lol, ok, too much. But good for laughs like my comment about the Playstation scene two weeks ago

Datu does not get taken hostage!!!! Leave that poor guy alone.... He has been thru enough!!!! datu:)

buzzbros2002
Nov 20th, 2013, 10:40 AM
So, I finished it last night and took the morning to relisten and digest it all. First off, that weather was mixed in awesomely, so major props to the sound team there. With so much information in one episode, I realize that I have been wrong a few times about worrying this would turn into LOST essentially, so forgive me KC, for I have sinned.

Out of all the things in this episode, the two that I'll be taking away with me is that the crack in Inglewood is no longer good, and now we get some Kelly development which I think is long overdue personally. Just don't turn it into Ally McBeal and we'll be good. Or, actually, turn it into Ally McBeal, because nothing says zombie apocalypse like unisex bathrooms and good music.

Everything else seems to have been covered, I'll definitely have to be on the forums earlier next week.

UndeadSweeper
Nov 20th, 2013, 11:16 AM
Datu does not get taken hostage!!!! Leave that poor guy alone.... He has been thru enough!!!! datu:)

But this will lead to a scene where he wraps an bandana around his head and goes all Rambo with his Mata Gun.

Red Shirt
Nov 20th, 2013, 04:08 PM
I don't think Ink was ever at Eastern Bay...

Wait, what? :squint: Did I just badly misunderstand something? I thought that it was said that he was held at Eastern Bay... adding the mystery as to why there... instead of (pre)trial holding.
Ugh... I need a (few more) re-listen(s). :o

I was playing over the TOWTM is Family theory in my head... I was thinking that oooollld Families with deep pockets would look out for their own, even when in trouble. By having him transferred to a "special" wing at EB. Like Goodfellas.

Sh*t.

Matt Gossett
Nov 20th, 2013, 04:23 PM
Are we sure that Ink is actually turned? I could have missed it somewhere in the story but I see a lot of people saying he is the only turned one with normal eyes. I had personally pictured him as never turning at all. But if that is the case then it leaves us with a few questions..........

1) If Ink is not turned. Is he/was he behind the explosion that caused the turning??? If so, did he know how to keep himself from turning(antibiotics, etc, etc)? So did Ink somehow set up the explosion knowing that he would not turn, and knowing that he would be able to control those who did??? Meaning even if the explosion happened and he was locked up in a transport vehicle, he could call his minions to bust him out.

2) If Ink is turned. Was the explosion just merely something that happened??? And Ink became the person we see now after being bitten?? Did something in his medication from the mental ward keep him from fully turning???

Lurker here, after reading this I thought of something. Could the explosion Michael heard at his school be what broke out Ink in the first episode? If it is; 1 the courthouse location is near the college attended, and 2 is the excision what triggered the outbreak. I think 2 might be wrong because of the cracks in Inglewood, but maybe someone else has a theory.

Z Sniper
Nov 20th, 2013, 10:19 PM
LMAO, bro!!!!

I can see the show now, Victor and Tanya roaming the post apocalyptic LA scene dolling out their own brand of justice while dropping catch phrases (Tanya's should be "Bitch, please!").

Seriously though, is there anyone Victor can't have an awesome scene with? Between Kc's writing and Otto's acting, Victor is AWESOME and is now officially tied for "favorite character in WA"....

STOP IT!! I don't want anyone to see me cry. Pass me the tissue,......soooo, you were saying?

Z Sniper
Nov 20th, 2013, 10:22 PM
Couldn't agree more. Victor + (Insert W.A. character) = Awesome.

Okay, now I'm gettin' all gushy! Thanks for the kudos amigo! Of course Kc knows what he's doing!

Unit
Nov 20th, 2013, 11:12 PM
If you want to keep entertained on all things We're Alive while waiting for next Monday's episode, go check out the Reptrivia section. There are two quizzes that will be closing tonight and two new quizzes opening tomorrow. See how much you really know your stuff :D

Storm
Nov 21st, 2013, 12:27 AM
So... Since we now know that Ink was a doctor... I had this thought yesterday.
Let's say Ink is behind the zets - not that I actually think so, at least not directly... Could the reason that it broke out in so many major international cities be because he, as a doctor, has been traveling around the world, going to all sorts of doctorish conventions and stuff?
Though this does not explain the cracks at G0, the explosion in Ch1, nor the fact that it all broke out simultaniously - almost at least - but it's still an interesting thought... At least to me. :D

7oddisdead
Nov 21st, 2013, 01:22 AM
So... Since we now know that Ink was a doctor... I had this thought yesterday.
Let's say Ink is behind the zets - not that I actually think so, at least not directly... Could the reason that it broke out in so many major international cities be because he, as a doctor, has been traveling around the world, going to all sorts of doctorish conventions and stuff?
Though this does not explain the cracks at G0, the explosion in Ch1, nor the fact that it all broke out simultaniously - almost at least - but it's still an interesting thought... At least to me. :D

although It does not conincide with the "ring of fire" bit. (major outbreak points happening at ring of fire locations) one option could be "bombs" planted at locations as you suggest, receiving a wifi signal. at a certain point a timer of the ol' interwebs goes off and 'viola...at that point nobody would have to be present, or have any control over whats happening.

a separate thought. and ive not been on here in a day or two, so perhaps this has came up...but fuck me, we have the guy who is arguably the baddest of the bad(as far as the biters go), who JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE BEING TRANSPORTED TO THE COURTHOUSE AT THE TIME OF OUTBREAK.(!)

hes behind all of this, dammit. just the idea of anything else being the case I cant see happening. the entire thing is staring us all in the face and ive yet to see anyone put it together in a cohesive way. while that's probly a good thing...man, it makes keeping out of the "what happened" theory-verse very hard.

boozed rant>over
7id

Witch_Doctor
Nov 21st, 2013, 04:59 AM
So... Since we now know that Ink was a doctor... I had this thought yesterday.
Let's say Ink is behind the zets - not that I actually think so, at least not directly... Could the reason that it broke out in so many major international cities be because he, as a doctor, has been traveling around the world, going to all sorts of doctorish conventions and stuff?
Though this does not explain the cracks at G0, the explosion in Ch1, nor the fact that it all broke out simultaniously - almost at least - but it's still an interesting thought... At least to me. :D


although It does not conincide with the "ring of fire" bit. (major outbreak points happening at ring of fire locations) one option could be "bombs" planted at locations as you suggest, receiving a wifi signal. at a certain point a timer of the ol' interwebs goes off and 'viola...at that point nobody would have to be present, or have any control over whats happening.

a separate thought. and ive not been on here in a day or two, so perhaps this has came up...but fuck me, we have the guy who is arguably the baddest of the bad(as far as the biters go), who JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE BEING TRANSPORTED TO THE COURTHOUSE AT THE TIME OF OUTBREAK.(!)

hes behind all of this, dammit. just the idea of anything else being the case I cant see happening. the entire thing is staring us all in the face and ive yet to see anyone put it together in a cohesive way. while that's probly a good thing...man, it makes keeping out of the "what happened" theory-verse very hard.

boozed rant>over
7id

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/ancient-aliens.jpg
Hey, Ink's schizophrenia could be explained by signals from Moon Men From Mars. If he wore a tin foil hat then this mess wouldn't have started.

Footbutt
Nov 21st, 2013, 06:07 AM
Seriously though, is there anyone Victor can't have an awesome scene with? Between Kc's writing and Otto's acting, Victor is AWESOME and is now officially tied for "favorite character in WA"....

i agree! Victor is my favorite WA Character. He's offered so much to buffet the story and other characters. i love his relationship with Saul and how the progression has gone. He's also been placed in very tough circumstances, both physically and 'politically' and has come out on the other side as a stronger character.
Voice acting is Top-Notch!

scbubba
Nov 21st, 2013, 06:28 AM
although It does not conincide with the "ring of fire" bit. (major outbreak points happening at ring of fire locations) one option could be "bombs" planted at locations as you suggest, receiving a wifi signal. at a certain point a timer of the ol' interwebs goes off and 'viola...at that point nobody would have to be present, or have any control over whats happening.

a separate thought. and ive not been on here in a day or two, so perhaps this has came up...but fuck me, we have the guy who is arguably the baddest of the bad(as far as the biters go), who JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE BEING TRANSPORTED TO THE COURTHOUSE AT THE TIME OF OUTBREAK.(!)

hes behind all of this, dammit. just the idea of anything else being the case I cant see happening. the entire thing is staring us all in the face and ive yet to see anyone put it together in a cohesive way. while that's probly a good thing...man, it makes keeping out of the "what happened" theory-verse very hard.

boozed rant>over
7id
Pause. Stepping outside the show story for a minute...

Looking at this from outside the story, I have a good feeling we are going to find out the cause of ZDay at some point. That's either going to come from something in the story already or we will have to have something introduced to the story close to the end. Right now, Ink is the most likely candidate to have the information that the listeners (and probably the characters) need.

This doesn't necessarily mean Ink initiated or even helped start the cause of Zday. But he has some knowledge of what it is and where it came from.....

I'm assuming we don't have some Deus Ex sort of "Here's how it happened" thing happen just to wrap things up. I can't see Kc doing that.

Ok, back to the story....

Gnex
Nov 21st, 2013, 06:33 AM
i agree! Victor is my favorite WA Character. He's offered so much to buffet the story and other characters. i love his relationship with Saul and how the progression has gone. He's also been placed in very tough circumstances, both physically and 'politically' and has come out on the other side as a stronger character.
Voice acting is Top-Notch!

VICTOR FOR PRESIDENT!!!! :excited:

Merlin1274
Nov 21st, 2013, 06:49 AM
I still do not think Ink had anything to do with the outbreak.. But his knowledge of Chems lead him to create the Specials. Cause the Colonist said they never had any of the specials down there when Mike and crew were there the first time.. Its an LA thing. The guys at Irwin never seen them before either..I do not feel, with what I have heard so far, that Ink started the outbreak..

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 21st, 2013, 07:49 AM
How likely is it to find the one key information who caused z-day in a zero infrastructure post-apocalyptic world? Nada.

LiamKerrington
Nov 21st, 2013, 08:05 AM
So... Since we now know that Ink was a doctor... I had this thought yesterday.
Let's say Ink is behind the zets - not that I actually think so, at least not directly... Could the reason that it broke out in so many major international cities be because he, as a doctor, has been traveling around the world, going to all sorts of doctorish conventions and stuff?
Though this does not explain the cracks at G0, the explosion in Ch1, nor the fact that it all broke out simultaniously - almost at least - but it's still an interesting thought... At least to me. :D

Let's assume Ink was part of a psycho pseudo-esoteric religious group or something ... He could have managed to create the zeeh-formular and share it or the methods to create it with his other freak-heads; then each single groupe has created the first bottles of zeeh-awesomeness ... And 'cause they all are kind of bound by the spells of their religion, they knew that "when the stars are right" and Neptune and Saturn are in certain spots in the sky, then they would release the Will of their fals good(ess) or shit ... And then ... *baaaaaam* ... in multi-locations almost simultanously the zombocalypse could have started ...

Don't get me wrong: this is not what I think; but I could see a story like this evolve or at least could be possible.

In my personal view the We're Alive zombocalypse started the one way or another, and Dr. Robberts was just in the right condition to be mutated into something special ... He (and his minions) are the result of something else ...

Best wishes!
Liam

LiamKerrington
Nov 21st, 2013, 08:06 AM
How likely is it to find the one key information who caused z-day in a zero infrastructure post-apocalyptic world? Nada.

Well ... it depends ...
But I agree with you: So early in the season I wouldn't expect the key information to show up as easily ...

Gnex
Nov 21st, 2013, 08:34 AM
I have a few reasons why I don't buy the whole "Ink didn't do it, he's just a nice guy that likes long walks on zombie beach and reading books" theory..........

#1 - The explosion at Ground Zero. Either Ink is extremely lucky, or something there was planned..... There just so happens to be an explosion? and it just so happens to be the day you are being transferred?

#2 - Ground Zero seems to be a residental neighborhood. I would suggest that either A) something under the ground blew up.... or B) Something above ground blew up with enough force to crack the ground. With Ink being paranoid it could be that he planned or planted something to blow up.

#3 - I could be wrong on this one, but just throwing it out there. But Do we know that any other Zombies other than Ink are able to lead/command the others??? What I mean is, there are points in the story where Ink will Roar/Howl to call the zombies into action...... Can other zombies do this as well or just Ink??

#4 - If Ink is the only one that can command the zombies, then he was somewhere nearby when Michael, Saul, and Angel were at the military base. This was not long after the explosion, and Ink already knew he could just control the zombie hordes??? Seems like this information would have taken a little while to figure out........ unless you already knew what was going to happen.


Just a few ideas..... :zombiepoke:

LiamKerrington
Nov 21st, 2013, 09:00 AM
Hi there,


I have a few reasons why I don't buy the whole "Ink didn't do it, he's just a nice guy that likes long walks on zombie beach and reading books" theory..........

I really hope that none here thinks Dr. William Isaac Robberts was a nice guy ... :cool:


#1 - The explosion at Ground Zero. Either Ink is extremely lucky, or something there was planned..... There just so happens to be an explosion? and it just so happens to be the day you are being transferred?

We only know for certain that there are cracks in the ground at Ground Zero. But we have not a single idea about what caused it. It seems to be quite certain that it must have been a powerful source, since some cracks go deep, and they spread very far.
I guess it is something from beneath the surface. If it was a source above ground, buildings should not have simply crashed, but be blown away at least almost as far as the deeper cracks went. And I have no recollection from the tellings of Saul or Victor that they saw something like that.
But in either case - something big exploding under the surface or at surface-level or even above the surface: a source creating such big cracks in the ground needs either one guy who was not under surveillance, a group of crazy maniacs/ terrorists, or a facility of whatever type gone *booom*.
At the time of the explosion Ink already was in custody. So he couldn't have started the bomb - or he had built it with a timer set to a certain time ... Could be, couldn't be. We really have not a single clue allowing any assumptions right now.

But one major reason speaks against Ink having done this in Inglewood: why were hotspot in many areas around the Pacific and at least on the Northern American continent? Ink? Really?? OK, granted: We have not a single idea about what started the zombocalypse in other areas. But to me it would be kind of strange that everywhere in the world zombies jump out of nowhere, while in LA Ink created his regional special zombie-party at the same time ... edit: So the question is: Is Ink big enough to establish the zombocalypse, or did the zombocalypse have special on him for whatever reason allowing him to organize his special LA-zombie-party? /edit


#2 - Ground Zero seems to be a residental neighborhood. I would suggest that either A) something under the ground blew up.... or B) Something above ground blew up with enough force to crack the ground. With Ink being paranoid it could be that he planned or planted something to blow up.

see above ...


#3 - I could be wrong on this one, but just throwing it out there. But Do we know that any other Zombies other than Ink are able to lead/command the others??? What I mean is, there are points in the story where Ink will Roar/Howl to call the zombies into action...... Can other zombies do this as well or just Ink??

That's a very fine question. And I don't remember seeing something like that except - maybe with some interpretation - for one situation: Randy leading a small group of Zeehs kidnapping Tanya ...
And from ther reports on the Smart Ones I would assume some level of control over zeehs as well ... But that's kind of a stretch, because we really have no solid information about that - yet.


#4 - If Ink is the only one that can command the zombies, then he was somewhere nearby when Michael, Saul, and Angel were at the military base. This was not long after the explosion, and Ink already knew he could just control the zombie hordes??? Seems like this information would have taken a little while to figure out........ unless you already knew what was going to happen.

When Michael, Angel, and Saul were at the military base riots were all over LA and in other cities - so not only near the military base in LA. This picture is supported by all the news we heard during the first episodes of WA and later by Kimmet's report.
As for Ink controlling other zombies: My bet would be that he learned to control other zeehs pretty quickly. And when he realized that and established a group of hunters for him - his "pack of zeehs, if you like -, he also started to build his own small zombie-population or zombie-group of "survivors". After all: We're Alive is a Story of Survival. And them zombos are just one other group of "human bodies" striving for survival - just with different attitudes and means ...


Just a few ideas..... :zombiepoke:

And damn fine questions and ideas you raise here. Thank you for sharing ...

Best wishes!
Liam

UndeadSweeper
Nov 21st, 2013, 09:28 AM
#3 - I could be wrong on this one, but just throwing it out there. But Do we know that any other Zombies other than Ink are able to lead/command the others??? What I mean is, there are points in the story where Ink will Roar/Howl to call the zombies into action...... Can other zombies do this as well or just Ink??


I think the Behemoth can summom other zombies but I think all smart ones can have some sway over weak ones. I thinking back to the Major at the army base on the first eps and Randy seem to have some control too.

Footbutt
Nov 21st, 2013, 09:30 AM
yeah, Liam, Randy was leading the "Massed Together" group when he dragged away Tanya.

anyway... i was bored at work and started looking at Fault Lines in CA. Apparently southern Ohio had a VERY minor earthquake, so that was my catalyst.

there's a fault line called the "Newport-Inglewood Fault". i'm sure this a common knowledge, and i'm probably rehashing a bunch of stuff...

but let me take you for a little wild ride:
i know religious-ish stuff is usually not handled with kid-gloves, but consider the Explosion on May 8th, Z-Day. The cracks in Inglewood could be along the Fault Line, and i'm going to assume that it was a release of compressed gas/toxin that burst through the Earth... from Hell??!?!!!!? what? it's either all Natural/biological or there's some random spiritual element involved. Since there's been next-to-none talk about God and religion and stuff, i'm assuming that the former is the winner for this plot line.
i feel there's no Human interaction that's the cause of the outbreak, it was all through the Elements of Nature. ....but i still don't wanna rule out the idea that all Hell has literally been unleashed! :tinfoil

UndeadSweeper
Nov 21st, 2013, 09:41 AM
yeah, Liam, Randy was leading the "Massed Together" group when he dragged away Tanya.

anyway... i was bored at work and started looking at Fault Lines in CA. Apparently southern Ohio had a VERY minor earthquake, so that was my catalyst.

there's a fault line called the "Newport-Inglewood Fault". i'm sure this a common knowledge, and i'm probably rehashing a bunch of stuff...

but let me take you for a little wild ride:
i know religious-ish stuff is usually not handled with kid-gloves, but consider the Explosion on May 8th, Z-Day. The cracks in Inglewood could be along the Fault Line, and i'm going to assume that it was a release of compressed gas/toxin that burst through the Earth... from Hell??!?!!!!? what? it's either all Natural/biological or there's some random spiritual element involved. Since there's been next-to-none talk about God and religion and stuff, i'm assuming that the former is the winner for this plot line.
i feel there's no Human interaction that's the cause of the outbreak, it was all through the Elements of Nature. ....but i still don't wanna rule out the idea that all Hell has literally been unleashed! :tinfoil

Hmm, Good theory. A natural event could cause all this here and around the world. And I'm also think that Ink isn't the source of the break and just took advance of the event. The only thing I can't shake off is Kanti said that he saw pretty bad ones at Hawaii. Who would have made those?

LiamKerrington
Nov 21st, 2013, 09:52 AM
yeah, Liam, Randy was leading the "Massed Together" group when he dragged away Tanya.

anyway... i was bored at work and started looking at Fault Lines in CA. Apparently southern Ohio had a VERY minor earthquake, so that was my catalyst.

there's a fault line called the "Newport-Inglewood Fault". i'm sure this a common knowledge, and i'm probably rehashing a bunch of stuff...

but let me take you for a little wild ride:
i know religious-ish stuff is usually not handled with kid-gloves, but consider the Explosion on May 8th, Z-Day. The cracks in Inglewood could be along the Fault Line, and i'm going to assume that it was a release of compressed gas/toxin that burst through the Earth... from Hell??!?!!!!? what? it's either all Natural/biological or there's some random spiritual element involved. Since there's been next-to-none talk about God and religion and stuff, i'm assuming that the former is the winner for this plot line.
i feel there's no Human interaction that's the cause of the outbreak, it was all through the Elements of Nature. ....but i still don't wanna rule out the idea that all Hell has literally been unleashed! :tinfoil

Yeah. I follow you down that rollercoaster ... Or down that road ...
"Hell" or any other "religious"-fueled delusion could be considered as kind of a motivation for Ink to become "zeeh"-leader ... All the symbols covering him or being part of his background seem to point at such a madness. Such a "Hell"-theme would be similar to the "Doom"-theme of the game as well as the movie ... But I guess Kc is not fueled by that idea ...

For whatever strange reason I think of "Pacific Rim" right now ... I need to stop writing here, or my madness strikes ...

Best wishes!
Liam

kent17
Nov 21st, 2013, 11:32 AM
I keep flip flopping in my head whether Ink started this or not. In the least he must have known something was going down, otherwise why the tattoos all of the sudden, shortly before Z-Day? That is too coincidental to ignore.

If he had a hand in starting it then how is it apparently almost simultaneously a global event? If it was isolated to ground zero then how did it spread over seas so fast? Air traffic would have been shutdown pretty damn quick.

The other thing that has been bugging me for what seems like forever is Michael and Randy. Thee must be some clue or important bit of information that will come out when we hear that story, because every time Michael is about to tell us he gets interrupted. Damn you Kc so much suspense

Footbutt
Nov 21st, 2013, 11:53 AM
I keep flip flopping in my head whether Ink started this or not. In the least he must have known something was going down, otherwise why the tattoos all of the sudden, shortly before Z-Day? That is too coincidental to ignore.


i also wonder how his tatoos were "inflicted' upon him. he had to have been pretty drugged up for Cohen to do his artwork on Bill Roberts--if they were never voluntary.
i'm leaning towards the idea that this "Cohen" gave Ink his tatoos out of cult-ish motivations. Roberts was unstable. throw in a shaky biochemist past and a freshly tatooed epidermis and you have the makings of a VERY recognizable figure with the crazies to enhance the Zombie Army.

so yeah, as someone else put it, Cohen has some 'splainin' ta do.
whether that's Duncan Cohen or whomever.

Gnex
Nov 21st, 2013, 12:34 PM
I keep flip flopping in my head whether Ink started this or not. In the least he must have known something was going down, otherwise why the tattoos all of the sudden, shortly before Z-Day? That is too coincidental to ignore.

If he had a hand in starting it then how is it apparently almost simultaneously a global event? If it was isolated to ground zero then how did it spread over seas so fast? Air traffic would have been shutdown pretty damn quick.

The other thing that has been bugging me for what seems like forever is Michael and Randy. Thee must be some clue or important bit of information that will come out when we hear that story, because every time Michael is about to tell us he gets interrupted. Damn you Kc so much suspense

I'm thinking Ink had some kind of connection to the family....... and the family has the connection to the explosions/zombies/etc/etc........... This would give us the reason why there was multiple explosion in various areas...... and then Ink knew something was being planned and did something to prevent himself from turning.

This would also explain why so many members of the family were unharmed, and could also explain why Ink's insanity plea was accepted....... Maybe the family paid for some expensive fancy lawyers to represent him.......

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 21st, 2013, 01:40 PM
I'm thinking Ink had some kind of connection to the family....... and the family has the connection to the explosions/zombies/etc/etc........... This would give us the reason why there was multiple explosion in various areas...... and then Ink knew something was being planned and did something to prevent himself from turning.

This would also explain why so many members of the family were unharmed, and could also explain why Ink's insanity plea was accepted....... Maybe the family paid for some expensive fancy lawyers to represent him.......

I guess that the whole revelation will definitely include much more background on Durai. I mean, this character is a mystery to me, he must have been more than a inertial damper for Scratch's megalomanic plans storywise.

kent17
Nov 21st, 2013, 01:41 PM
I'm thinking Ink had some kind of connection to the family....... and the family has the connection to the explosions/zombies/etc/etc........... This would give us the reason why there was multiple explosion in various areas...... and then Ink knew something was being planned and did something to prevent himself from turning.

This would also explain why so many members of the family were unharmed, and could also explain why Ink's insanity plea was accepted....... Maybe the family paid for some expensive fancy lawyers to represent him.......

I personally don't like the "Family" theory, I think the family angle has played out for the most part; but it does help fit a lot of pieces into place, and Scratch is still out there. The next be reveal will probably be who Coen is... my money is on Duncan, he seems most likely out of the current characters we have, but there is always Randy too. Randy seems to be similar to Ink in his awareness and self control.

Come to think of it, in Chapter 39 when they find Randy his first reaction is to run away, have there been any other times when a zombie has run away like that? Typically I thought they would just start attacking, right?

FunkyDung
Nov 21st, 2013, 03:25 PM
The next be reveal will probably be who Coen is... my money is on Duncan, he seems most likely out of the current characters we have, but there is always Randy too.

Glad to see someone else on my "Skittles is evil" (or at least more than he seems) bandwagon. :)

Monster mani
Nov 21st, 2013, 04:15 PM
Ok I'm just putting this out there but could Mr. Cohen be harkening back to Monty Pythons Mr Cohen. A mysterious charector who is often quoted in the Python shows. But never really enlightend upon.... If so perhaps ink is really John Cleese. And just maybe, maaaaybe. The outbreak was started by a dead... Or undead parrot? If this is not the case I say we abduct Kc and probe his brain for answers. It's the only logical explanation. "Twitch twitch"

Eviebae
Nov 21st, 2013, 05:23 PM
First of all, well done everyone! So many smart, insightful people working on such an excellent puzzle! <br />
<br />
So, I'm thinking that if you ignore what the press presents as his actions and motivations...

Red Shirt
Nov 21st, 2013, 05:35 PM
How likely is it to find the one key information who caused z-day in a zero infrastructure post-apocalyptic world? Nada.

Might only take two things: One guy that is tech savvy IT, SYS admin, ect. and and a lucky find of a Google server farm... Who, by the way, have been building server farms in shipping containers and putting them in unmarked warehouses since at least 2005 (http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/04/01/google-unveils-its-container-data-center/). Google has also been planning on putting those server farms out to sea since 2008 (http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/09/06/google-planning-offshore-data-barges/) and it might be actually happening RIGHT NOW (http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/10/28/the-barge-mystery-floating-data-centers/), only no one knows is operating them other than ownership by the company "By and Large, LLC."

Why did Kimmet want access to the ports again?

Also worth noting, there are more than a dozen or so ways that the entirety of Wikipedia can be downloaded and referenced offline. Even .ISO and .IMG files that you used to be able to burn to a DVD. (I think that you used to be able to buy them at MicroCenter for a couple bucks... the cost of the disk & labor to burn them.)
Well, that was from a few years ago, back when Wikipedia was smaller... the current dump from October 2, 2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download#English-language_Wikipedia) is 9.5 GB compressed... 44 GB uncompressed.


#2 - Ground Zero seems to be a residental neighborhood. I would suggest that either A) something under the ground blew up.... or B) Something above ground blew up with enough force to crack the ground. With Ink being paranoid it could be that he planned or planted something to blow up.

I'm sticking with something from underground... An above ground explosion powerful enough to crack the ground like in Inglewood, would have leveled the city.
IMO, the explosion sounded kinda like a giant "pop." For some reason, they also seemed "bouncy" to me, though that was probably just the reverb and echo.


anyway... i was bored at work and started looking at Fault Lines in CA. Apparently southern Ohio had a VERY minor earthquake, so that was my catalyst.

there's a fault line called the "Newport-Inglewood Fault". i'm sure this a common knowledge, and i'm probably rehashing a bunch of stuff...

That would be the Newport-Inglewood-Rose Canyon Fault Zone. I talked about fault lines and geologic activity back in one of my first posts here (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3188-Chapter-29-2-Beyond-Our-Walls-Part-2&p=39536#post39536). Regrettably, some of those links are dead, due to usgs.gov updating their site. The new page is missing the map (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/monitoring/anss/earthquakes/recenteqscanv/fault/156.html), but here is a list of information about it (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/search/?q=+Newport-Inglewood-Rose+Canyon+Fault+Zone&x=0&y=0&cx=012856435542074762574%3A49ga9ubtojk&cof=FORID%3A11&sa=Search).

Southern Ohio quake? Probably related to the New Madrid & Wabash Valley Seismic Zones. I mention those in my old post too.


This would give us the reason why there was multiple explosion in various areas...
The thing is, is that the crust of the Earth is riddled with tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands faults ranging from the obvious ones on the surface, to faults that are fifty or more kilometers below the surface... Many are dormant, though they do interact with other active faults in other ways by deflecting, deadening or even amplifying (I think) the tectonic effects of other active faults. Were the Planet Earth to burp/fart/*bodily function verb of choice*; there are a LOT of places for that gas/haze/effluent to leak from.


I guess that the whole revelation will definitely include much more background on Durai. I mean, this character is a mystery to me, he must have been more than a inertial damper for Scratch's megalomanic plans storywise.
Given what little we know with his demeanor and eloquence, my best guess is that he was not just a member, but at least an "Heir Apparent," if not an actual patriarch of one of the Families.

Z Sniper
Nov 21st, 2013, 09:52 PM
i agree! Victor is my favorite WA Character. He's offered so much to buffet the story and other characters. i love his relationship with Saul and how the progression has gone. He's also been placed in very tough circumstances, both physically and 'politically' and has come out on the other side as a stronger character.
Voice acting is Top-Notch!

I appreciate that very much Footbutt! I've learned a lot about this craft and trust me, I cringe when I hear my voice but I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast and it's always fun to see the gang at the recording sessions. Thanks for the kudos, and as always, we appreciate your enthusiasm for the podcast,.....and for Victor too! I bestow you MUCHO MAS MACHO MAN! Go forth and hock a loogie.

Osiris
Nov 21st, 2013, 11:06 PM
I appreciate that very much Footbutt! I've learned a lot about this craft and trust me, I cringe when I hear my voice but I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast and it's always fun to see the gang at the recording sessions. Thanks for the kudos, and as always, we appreciate your enthusiasm for the podcast,.....and for Victor too! I bestow you MUCHO MAS MACHO MAN! Go forth and hock a loogie.

You got a great voice, bro. Embrace it.

scbubba
Nov 22nd, 2013, 10:19 AM
Just an FYI - I think Raydon Labs may have been a red herring.

Apparently CVS is the place we ought to be checking out
http://i.imgur.com/zZeRpFu.png
:rolleyes:

Z Sniper
Nov 22nd, 2013, 11:55 AM
You got a great voice, bro. Embrace it. Thanks bro, I'm hugging my throat right now,......WAIT, it's hard to breathe!

Osiris
Nov 22nd, 2013, 06:22 PM
Thanks bro, I'm hugging my throat right now,......WAIT, it's hard to breathe!

http://i.imgur.com/KZzxiwJ.jpg

Witch_Doctor
Nov 22nd, 2013, 10:34 PM
So, I'm just sitting around, thinking of all things "We're Alive", like I always do and it occurred to me. What if KC was just sitting around and shooting the breeze with some buddies and said, "You know what would make the zombie apocalypse awesome? If some dude started pumping the zombies up with some serious steroids and growth hormones. They would be your worst nightmare. Incredible Hulk/ The Thing/ Mr. T Zombies. No wait, even better, Bruce Jenner zombies that can run and jump too. Let's add a bad ass Steve Urkel/Tupac zombie."

Then his buddies say,"Fool, pass the weed and shut up."

Thus, a silly B-Movie idea, along the same lines as Sharknado, becomes this incredible, magnificent piece of work.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 23rd, 2013, 05:46 AM
So, I'm just sitting around, thinking of all things "We're Alive", like I always do and it occurred to me. What if KC was just sitting around and shooting the breeze with some buddies and said, "You know what would make the zombie apocalypse awesome? If some dude started pumping the zombies up with some serious steroids and growth hormones. They would be your worst nightmare. Incredible Hulk/ The Thing/ Mr. T Zombies. No wait, even better, Bruce Jenner zombies that can run and jump too. Let's add a bad ass Steve Urkel/Tupac zombie."

Then his buddies say,"Fool, pass the weed and shut up."

Thus, a silly B-Movie idea, along the same lines as Sharknado, becomes this incredible, magnificent piece of work.

It is a possible explanation that is too good to be not true...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st7qtDpJ8pk

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 23rd, 2013, 06:03 AM
Thanks bro, I'm hugging my throat right now,......WAIT, it's hard to breathe!

Man, keep on breathing, you will need the air to deliver the following monologue before killing TOWTM:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0cJBEMiN1c

Unit
Nov 23rd, 2013, 08:47 AM
Come to think of it, in Chapter 39 when they find Randy his first reaction is to run away, have there been any other times when a zombie has run away like that? Typically I thought they would just start attacking, right?

No there have been other times when zombie have run or hidden. Near the end of the war when Burt, Riley and Angel are making their last stand on the fire truck the zombies eventually give up and run away.

There is another time when it is mentioned that a zombie runs and hides behind a desk. I believe it is when the crew is coming back from saving Datu at the Arena and Ink has gotten in so the team has to clear the building. They find one in the lobby that hides (could have been a different part of the story, not 100% sure, but I know one hides)

tonyhind86
Nov 23rd, 2013, 08:49 AM
There is another time when it is mentioned that a zombie runs and hides behind a desk. I believe it is when the crew is coming back from saving Datu at the Arena and Ink has gotten in so the team has to clear the building. They find one in the lobby that hides (could have been a different part of the story, not 100% sure, but I know one hides)

I believe that was the first incident we heard of a zombie hiding from the survivors - I'm pretty sure it was Angel who expressed his surprise.

Unit
Nov 23rd, 2013, 09:01 AM
Man! Catching up on 24 pages of forum is time consuming haha.

I don't have too much to add but it think it is funny all the theories that people try to extrapolate with so little info. Reading some of the theories felt like reading "well we know 1+1=3 so the answer is green" haha

I'll make a few predictions and wait impatiently for Mondays episode

- Duncan/Skittles had nothing more to do with anything than we have already heard. It wouldn't surprise me if we don't hear from this character anymore. He has served his purposes already (and I think the voice actor has a lot going on so trying to get him on again would be difficult anyway)

- Ink has nothing to do with the 'Families'. He had no problem tearing apart the Mallers. He was never at Eastern Bay. I think these story lines are separate.

- Ink is at least partially zombie, he was shot in the chest, jumps out of a window, runs super fast, is unfazed by being shot in the hand. I believe he was also the one seen by Datu in the Arena who killed Samantha. He tore Paul apart with what we can assume was with just his bare hands since there was no mention of a weapon by Pegs who I believe saw it and recounted it to Michael.

- #7 eating the normal biter is mostly out of hunger but also is eliminating competition for food. Just like any other predator who kills one of their own, it is a struggle for survival. With so few humans left, food is scarce for zombies just like it is for humans.

- Just like all the chapters have multiple meanings, I'm starting to think the shows name 'A Zombie Story of Survival' will start to reference how the Zombies struggle for survival as much as the humans are struggling to survive.


I think that's all I've got for now. Can't wait till Monday :-)

tonyhind86
Nov 23rd, 2013, 09:13 AM
There was an instance in the previous chapter when they found the note at Raydon Labs (the shopping list) which Michael described as having "strange symbols" written on it. I wonder if any of these match the tattoos that Ink has on his face and hands.

Unit
Nov 23rd, 2013, 09:28 AM
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that,...(don't tell Kc I told you!), that these are just "monsters" roaming around in Michael's head. Yes ladies and gents, it seems Michael took another good wiff of his experimental mixtures and has taken a bad "trip" to la-la land. When he wakes up, IF he wakes up, we all go bye-bye.

I thought of something similar to that back while listening to season 1. What if this is just a crazy nightmare or a bad acid trip or something? Haha Michael is just a junkie that is strung out right now

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 23rd, 2013, 11:04 AM
I thought of something similar to that back while listening to season 1. What if this is just a crazy nightmare or a bad acid trip or something? Haha Michael is just a junkie that is strung out right now

I would call Michael a masochist, too, if he imagined Pegs (and her behavior) to be in his trip.

Grognaurd
Nov 23rd, 2013, 01:18 PM
What drives me the most crazy is the purposeful ambiguity. Even when we think we learned something, there is still uncertainty. For instance, the tattoos. We hear, he bribed Cohen to do it to him. But, is the he referring to Ink or the somebody who smuggled in the pens?

So, now we know that Ink was Tattooed in custody, but not sure if he did it to himself or not. Both possibilities make a good story. I favor it was done against his will, because the term inflicted was also used.

Hell, just going back to Chapter 2 and the TiVo. He was convicted of killing last May. So, does that mean he was convicted one year before the outbreak or was the murder a year before the outbreak and he was only recently convicted?

Getting all :tinfoil: What was the councillor's name? Nick Rivers? What does the pregnant PhD psychiatrist want to name her baby boy? Nicholas? Do I have that right?

Unit
Nov 23rd, 2013, 01:49 PM
What drives me the most crazy is the purposeful ambiguity. Even when we think we learned something, there is still uncertainty. For instance, the tattoos. We hear, he bribed Cohen to do it to him. But, is the he referring to Ink or the somebody who smuggled in the pens?

So, now we know that Ink was Tattooed in custody, but not sure if he did it to himself or not. Both possibilities make a good story. I favor it was done against his will, because the term inflicted was also used.

Hell, just going back to Chapter 2 and the TiVo. He was convicted of killing last May. So, does that mean he was convicted one year before the outbreak or was the murder a year before the outbreak and he was only recently convicted?

Getting all :tinfoil: What was the councillor's name? Nick Rivers? What does the pregnant PhD psychiatrist want to name her baby boy? Nicholas? Do I have that right?

I'll have to go back and listen to the exact wording again but I am pretty sure the TiVo doesn't use the word convicted when talking about the murders. I believe it says he was to appear in court for murders last May but that he had accepted a deal to go to a mental institution instead of prison.

scbubba
Nov 23rd, 2013, 02:09 PM
I'll have to go back and listen to the exact wording again but I am pretty sure the TiVo doesn't use the word convicted when talking about the murders. I believe it says he was to appear in court for murders last May but that he had accepted a deal to go to a mental institution instead of prison.

I think it does say he was convicted but there is also the mention of a plea of insanity being accepted. I think he was being transported for either sentencing or to make the actual plea.

EtA: the recording does mention transport to a mental health facility. I don't think it mentions transport to the court house directly.....

Witch_Doctor
Nov 23rd, 2013, 02:37 PM
I'll have to go back and listen to the exact wording again but I am pretty sure the TiVo doesn't use the word convicted when talking about the murders. I believe it says he was to appear in court for murders last May but that he had accepted a deal to go to a mental institution instead of prison.

It says that he was '...convicted of multiple homicides in Santa Monica last May...' This a a classic amphiboly (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amphiboly) statement. It could mean...

1) Last May, was convicted for the homicides that he committed. That is, the conviction took place last May.
2) He committed the homicides last May and was recently convicted for them.

Judging by the way the story is unfolding, I'm betting it is the second option. Makes more sense that way.

Witch_Doctor
Nov 23rd, 2013, 02:48 PM
Man! Catching up on 24 pages of forum is time consuming haha.

I don't have too much to add but it think it is funny all the theories that people try to extrapolate with so little info. Reading some of the theories felt like reading "well we know 1+1=3 so the answer is green" haha


Maybe, or....

x = y.
Then x^2 = xy.
Subtract the same thing from both sides:
x^2 - y^2 = xy - y^2.
Dividing by (x-y), obtain
x + y = y.
Since x = y, we see that
2 y = y.
Thus 2 = 1, since we started with y nonzero.
Subtracting 1 from both sides,
1 = 0.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 23rd, 2013, 03:13 PM
Maybe, or....

x = y.
Then x^2 = xy.
Subtract the same thing from both sides:
x^2 - y^2 = xy - y^2.
Dividing by (x-y), obtain
x + y = y.
Since x = y, we see that
2 y = y.
Thus 2 = 1, since we started with y nonzero.
Subtracting 1 from both sides,
1 = 0.

You are dividing by zero, pal.

x = y can be rewritten as x-y = 0. It is all a matter of term resolution.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Nov 23rd, 2013, 03:41 PM
It says that he was '...convicted of multiple homicides in Santa Monica last May...' This a a classic amphiboly (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amphiboly) statement. It could mean...

1) Last May, was convicted for the homicides that he committed. That is, the conviction took place last May.
2) He committed the homicides last May and was recently convicted for them.

Judging by the way the story is unfolding, I'm betting it is the second option. Makes more sense that way.

Good point. BTW, how long does a crime scene remain a crime scene in U.S.? I do not think that the police tape had been for long at the door of Bill's bureau. What did the police try to find? Why did they not take the drawings with them? The only logical solution is that Ink put the drawing there after he was turned.

LiamKerrington
Nov 23rd, 2013, 05:41 PM
I don't have too much to add but it think it is funny all the theories that people try to extrapolate with so little info. Reading some of the theories felt like reading "well we know 1+1=3 so the answer is green" haha

Weit. What? Green? Really??? I thought it to be purple with yellow sprinkles ... What did I miss???


There was an instance in the previous chapter when they found the note at Raydon Labs (the shopping list) which Michael described as having "strange symbols" written on it. I wonder if any of these match the tattoos that Ink has on his face and hands.

I bet they are of the same nature ...

------------------

Michael is Bill Roberts. He is questioned by his psychiatrists. And he tells them this incredible and hilarious zombie-story. But this is just the post-traumatic stress symptom from his many missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, mixed with chemo-weapon-shit from his enemies ... So finally he freaked out, killed his family (why else would he have so much trouble telling anyone ebout his true family situation?), and now he is in custody. A tool to support him on his way out of his madness is his diary, which he calls "log" or "log file" out of habit ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Witch_Doctor
Nov 23rd, 2013, 05:49 PM
You are dividing by zero, pal.

x = y can be rewritten as x-y = 0. It is all a matter of term resolution.

You can divide by zero if you wear a tin foil hat. :tinfoil:
The conical shape protects you from the singularity! :p

Witch_Doctor
Nov 23rd, 2013, 06:06 PM
Good point. BTW, how long does a crime scene remain a crime scene in U.S.? I do not think that the police tape had been for long at the door of Bill's bureau. What did the police try to find? Why did they not take the drawings with them? The only logical solution is that Ink put the drawing there after he was turned.

A location remains a crime scene only for as long as evidence can be obtained from it. So it wouldn't make sense for it to be a crime scene for a year after the murders. The best scenario that I can think of is this...

As far as if Ink has turned or not, Skittles says that he's not a person anymore. This makes me wonder a couple of things.
1) Could there have been other things smuggled into the jail inside of those ball point pens? Kelly says that the authorities were investigating how the stuff was smuggled in. What stuff, ink pens? There seemed to be a lot of concern over ink pens. (The article says that the tattoos were inflicted, as if he was inked against his will. But, why would he pay someone to do it if he didn't want it done?) I think that maybe chemicals from his lab were in the ink pens.

2) If the pens contained performance enhancement drugs (perhaps to make himself a bad ass in jail or to increase his strength in order to jail break himself) then this would explain why there was police tape on his office door on Z-day. Remember, he committed the crimes in Santa Monica. Why would his office be a crime seen? Of course, they could have suspected that he may have left evidence there; murder weapon, bloody glove, photos of his wife and Jack Tripper. Also, the article says that it was to be determined if the tattooing would delay the hearing. I doubt that jail house tattoos are so uncommon that it would hold up a court appearance. But, the simplest explanation would be that the police tape was put there just prior to Z-day because they were investigating how chemicals were removed from there and smuggled into the jail....

:tinfoil:

Unit
Nov 23rd, 2013, 06:26 PM
You are dividing by zero, pal.

x = y can be rewritten as x-y = 0. It is all a matter of term resolution.

Nice work, was thinking the same thing.

Here is one off topic but just for fun...

2789