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nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 05:40 AM
Do we hear Kalani's story to completion? Will we gain new insights into CJ and her past? Will we see Duncan crack and become the man...the myth.........the Legend....?

Put your thoughts here on the conclusion to one of the most KICK ASS CHAPTERS in We're Alive history!

Mikeyd2tall
Mar 19th, 2012, 07:26 AM
heres a though. ITS GONNA BE KICK-ASS!!!!! no but for reals id love to hear kalani getting caught in the arena, then to him in some random scenes in the tower, then to the war, and the shooting, and finally the chapter ends with his realization (or so he thinks) that hannah is gone.

Mikeyd2tall
Mar 19th, 2012, 08:46 AM
HA! kalani got date-raped, We saw the turn of skittles, a Left 4 Dead esc survival by CJ, some great speaking lines from TOWTM, a cool rescue attempt that sounded great, an old scene from a different point of view (always great) and some nice onomatopoeia!

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 09:24 AM
Well, not much to say...just wow. Good solid episode...definitely a few things to ponder though...why would towtm leave cj? Seems a bit calculated...and was kalani in fact, conscious for the entire Samantha/datu exchange? Yea..."leave her" is gonna keep me busy for a while. All in all good closing to an amazing section of the story

UndeadSweeper
Mar 19th, 2012, 09:27 AM
I was wrong. Skittles started cracking after the breach. But that my theory of him heading to the Arena sound good. One thing, can they tell the sex from smell? He said " Leave her."

fridginators
Mar 19th, 2012, 09:46 AM
Holy fuck, I was cupping my hands over my mouth at "leave her". Probs to KC, that was amazing. Interesting though that, assuming it was TOWTM, his voice was much much deeper than when he said "It's Paul". Maybe he was just deliberately modulating it to imitate people at the tower [by the way, why didn't Paul ever become a zombie? guess they must've known to hit him in the head asap after TOWTM left], or maybe this wasn't even TOWTM but just a smart one or even a regular, we don't really know.

Didn't really enjoy the Arena scenes so much - partly because obviously they're depressing, but also I think the rescue thing dragged on a bit, there seemed to just be a fair bit of shooting for a while, and I'm not really exactly sure how they all got killed - I assume it was a Behemoth? Whatever, it's not that big of a deal. I like filling in holes and all, but I guess these were ones I'd rather not hear.

I do wonder how this is all going to affect what happens in the future though. I would really like to see something properly happen in Ft Irwin at some point, but I guess that's what the next few episodes are going to be about. These flashback episodes were awesome, but I hope the plot moves a bit faster than it has in 25 & 26. Then again these are all just small little niggles when considering how awesome the whole of 27 was.

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:00 AM
Said Mr. Kc Wayland to the entire WA Fanbase......

Slow your roll.....

We moved so remarkably quickly through Kalani's backstory I had no idea we'd "stall out" where we did. But now we know how Kalani looked and acted sick when we first met him, yet suddenly felt much better later on. Not a diabetic that we're aware of....just poppin' some unknown pill from some raver.

In the continuing theme of "Piss Poor Other Tower Execution" why stow away a secret cache of weapons and not let everyone know? Was the malcontent feeling in the Other Tower so great that CJ feared a coup of some kind? Maybe that's why she had a small stash of weapons that no one knew about.

I'm starting to feel really bad for CJ. She's got a lot of weight on her shoulders from the end of this stronghold of hers and I bet Victor is about to make in considerably worse when he mentions he met Sean at the Colony.

awkwardalex
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:03 AM
Do we hear Kalani's story to completion? Will we gain new insights into CJ and her past? Will we see Duncan crack and become the man...the myth.........the Legend....?

Put your thoughts here on the conclusion to one of the most KICK ASS CHAPTERS in We're Alive history!

And let that be a lesson to you kids...you do NOT take drugs from strangers! Maybe if Kalani wasn't all doped up (or down) Datu, Samantha, and Hope could be a little awkward family.

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:10 AM
And let that be a lesson to you kids...you do NOT take drugs from strangers! Maybe if Kalani wasn't all doped up (or down) Datu, Samantha, and Hope could be a little awkward family.

This Public Service Announcment is brought to you by AwkwardAlex, We're Alive and Kc Wayland.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vXHjGecJ9Nk/Tza-SimS1_I/AAAAAAAAAtU/mjlZZiXYFiY/s1600/TheMoreYouKnow.jpg

Wow....I just realized I got 2 out of 3 of my "set up predictions" right at the top of this thread......niiiiiiiice!

Cabbage Patch
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:20 AM
It's pretty clear now that Duncan became Skittles, and that Kalani knew Duncan reasonably well. Begs the question of why Kalani denied knowing Skittles at the Army base. Guilty conscience?

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:24 AM
It's pretty clear now that Duncan became Skittles, and that Kalani knew Duncan reasonably well. Begs the question of why Kalani denied knowing Skittles at the Army base. Guilty conscience?

Don't think he actually did. Angel tried to correct Skittles when he recognized Kalani. Kalani just didn't contradict it. Besides, Kalani is juggling a story. The less information about how he came to the Tower, the better/safer he is.

bvglee
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:26 AM
...why stow away a secret cache of weapons and not let everyone know?

It should be a small reserve of weapons, ammo and Bug Out stuff in a fall back position, in case SHTF, and it paid out, I would do the same (Hell, I would have 2 or 3 stocked fall back positions). BTW good call on Steve, I didn't remember that.

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:32 AM
It should be a small reserve of weapons, ammo and Bug Out stuff in a fall back position, in case SHTF, and it paid out, I would do the same (Hell, I would have 2 or 3 stocked fall back positions). BTW good call on Steve, I didn't remember that.

Right, it's a fall back position in case things go horribly awry.. That's why I'm wondering why she was the only one who knew about it. BTW I realize this is kind of a small point overall (most likely) but that stuck in my craw listening to this chapter part.

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:47 AM
Right, it's a fall back position in case things go horribly awry.. That's why I'm wondering why she was the only one who knew about it. BTW I realize this is kind of a small point overall (most likely) but that stuck in my craw listening to this chapter part.

its a point none the less. another excellent question would be how high level of paranoia do you have to have to abandon your entire group including a (from what we have noticed from their interactions) love interest? the bug out bag is kind of understandable..samantha said they had weapons stashed all over the place..but why go to the basement alone in the first place?

awesome planning. piss-poor execution..............

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 19th, 2012, 10:52 AM
I agree. I thought that was pretty crappy of Chinwe to just let everyone else bug out and do their own thing while she went downstairs and held out on her own. It was like Burt when the Tower was on fire. I guess she didn't have an emergency plan set up for all the other folks. It was like she believed she was careful enough to the point that one would never get in her tower so an emergency plan for everyone wasn't necessary. I feel like that emergency cache in the basement was her own little bomb shelter. Greedy. I see her in a different light now.

Moving on; that was an amazing episode. When Chinwe backed herself into that corner my mind already started working towards a confrontation between her and pinstripes. I couldn't imagine him talking very much though. I didn't want him to go off on this James-Bond-villain-monologue, so hearing that brief but very disturbing, "leave her" was an excellent treat. Since he is using English to communicate to his zombies, I wonder if they can understand all their victims pleas and cries of mercy. Martin stated that to commit suicide would "ruin their fun". Are the sick flesh biting fucks at the arena getting off on torture? I also wonder if you would be able to reason to some of the higher levels of thinking in these zeds; like lets say a husband gets turned, and his daughter pleads with him for mercy. Would we see that zombie dad struggle with lingering emotions? It certainly gives me a lot to think about.

Also, damn it KC. Not knowing how long Kalani was passed out is going to make work on the timeline a little uncertain, but I guess piecing it together is fun too.

I wonder why Pinstripes and his horde left Duncan be? Were they getting pleasure out of seeing him lose his mind as they ate his friends? Just shows you how disturbed these creatures running in Pinstripes company are.

[EDIT]
After a chat with KC I was reminded that there was a bit of a plan in place; safe houses. I forgot that Samantha said she had made it to one such safe house. I guess that's not such a terrible plan since you would spread out and make yourself a smaller target and potentially be considered less of a threat, maybe even left alone. Consider that CJ herself was just a single target in a well defended spot. She may have been considered as not being worth the zombies effort.
I'll lessen my disdain for CJ since I was under the impression she ditched her people and left them pissing in the wind. But now, as I understand it, she went for the closest available guns and held up as best she could. Too bad she didn't join the fight and went upstairs a couple of hours after she heard the struggle was over.

awkwardalex
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:07 AM
It's pretty clear now that Duncan became Skittles, and that Kalani knew Duncan reasonably well. Begs the question of why Kalani denied knowing Skittles at the Army base. Guilty conscience?

I think it was a matter of the less Angel knew the better you know, if he found out that they knew each other he'd ask questions and get more curious about Kalani.

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:11 AM
awesome planning. piss-poor execution..............

This sounds so familiar..........;)

I think it's somewhat telling of how "disorganized" the Other Tower was....Sean says every man for himself (sorta), Samantha cut and run leaving Hope behind, CJ cowers in a corner....Our Tower runs upstairs and throws furniture out the windows trying to defend their home.....When I say disorganized, I don't mean in terms of what they accomplished (which was a metric shit ton) I mean they as people were far to "Me" oriented to allow their set up to ultimately succeed.

UndeadSweeper
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:16 AM
This sounds so familiar..........;)

I think it's somewhat telling of how "disorganized" the Other Tower was....Sean says every man for himself (sorta), Samantha cut and run leaving Hope behind, CJ cowers in a corner....Our Tower runs upstairs and throws furniture out the windows trying to defend their home.....When I say disorganized, I don't mean in terms of what they accomplished (which was a metric shit ton) I mean they as people were far to "Me" oriented to allow their set up to ultimately succeed.

Yea, this tower was run, everyone is carry their weight or you can leave if they want to. Maybe that is the one thing that made the difference. Still remember the moment with Peg.

kidmuncher
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:19 AM
Holy fuck, I was cupping my hands over my mouth at "leave her". Probs to KC, that was amazing. Interesting though that, assuming it was TOWTM, his voice was much much deeper than when he said "It's Paul". Maybe he was just deliberately modulating it to imitate people at the tower [by the way, why didn't Paul ever become a zombie? guess they must've known to hit him in the head asap after TOWTM left], or maybe this wasn't even TOWTM but just a smart one or even a regular, we don't really know.

Didn't really enjoy the Arena scenes so much - partly because obviously they're depressing, but also I think the rescue thing dragged on a bit, there seemed to just be a fair bit of shooting for a while, and I'm not really exactly sure how they all got killed - I assume it was a Behemoth? Whatever, it's not that big of a deal. I like filling in holes and all, but I guess these were ones I'd rather not hear.

I do wonder how this is all going to affect what happens in the future though. I would really like to see something properly happen in Ft Irwin at some point, but I guess that's what the next few episodes are going to be about. These flashback episodes were awesome, but I hope the plot moves a bit faster than it has in 25 & 26. Then again these are all just small little niggles when considering how awesome the whole of 27 was.

I concur with just about all of this. If you go back and listen to 11-1 around 8:00 the voice sounds quite different. The voice actually sounds a little like Burt in this episode.

I'm also with you on the pace. Awesome episodes but....the overall story development has now moved from slow to backwards. I guess it is good to clear up some longstanding questions.

On that note I'm still looking forward to hearing how Randy saved Michael at the pump station.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:22 AM
[QUOTE=UndeadSweeper;36070]Yea, this tower was run like, to quote Rick Grimm.../QUOTE]

Thanks for fixing that. :D

UndeadSweeper
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:23 AM
Also can we start calling the other tower the Piss-poor tower.

UndeadSweeper
Mar 19th, 2012, 11:25 AM
[QUOTE=UndeadSweeper;36070]Yea, this tower was run like, to quote Rick Grimm.../QUOTE]

I am glad that I was just able to read the first part, recognize Rick Grimes, and stop reading. I haven't seen Season 2 yet, so I am going to gouge my fucking eyes out if I read a spoiler. Be careful mang.

Opps, I will remove that part.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:03 PM
@ UndeadSweeper - thank you. Sorry I cussed. I just get a little crazy when it comes to a spoiler. Not your fault though. My ass just needs to get on the ball and watch Walking Dead. <br />
<br />
Getting back...

Grognaurd
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:17 PM
Here is the biggest outstanding questions for me. CJ makes it sound like she went all Lone Wolf. Does she hook back up with group? Who leads the failed rescued attempt? People have been losing faith in CJ for a while. But someone has the CHARISMA of a god. (S)He takes a few people that just got slapped down by organized zombies on an assault on Club Dead.

First, The Leader needs to find the intel that people were taken and not just turned into zombie chow. The Leader then has to have the intel to know that the living were brought to the Arena. Finally, arange an assault.

Distill it down to Risk vs. Reward. We know the Risk is pretty much as high as it gets. What is the reward? Kalani? Hardly. I cannot find the reward or the charisma to get it done.

Spin it around.

The rescue party is not The Other Tower. Could it be the Mallers?

In this case, the reward would not be the rescue, but the destruction of Ink etal. The Risk is reduced because of Bravado and that the mallers have seemed to have turned back one or more zombie assaults. Not to mention the counter risk that if you do not do it, Scratch or Durai will shoot your ass. We already have direct evidence that Durai has a fundamental desire to hit and destroy the arena. Maybe the mallers have also learned that instead of a walking, talking MRE, people are now Take Out food. Before Durai can hit the nest, he has to learn where the Arena is. Counter surveilence of watching were Kalani was taken lets them know where the Other Tower is located. Repeat the process to find the location of the arena.

Two outstanding questions vexing the community. (1) What does Scratch want? For Kalani to be captured. -- "Better start running". With Hannah Hostage it is easy to predict that Kalani will try to escape and get back to the mallers. (2) Why send Kalani? He is... wait for it... almost certainly to be captured because he is


Fat

and his cardio sucks.

Again, it is SuperFly off the Top Rope. But, this time, I left out the double flip (I hope)

HardKor
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:24 PM
hmm...lots of things to mull over in this one. We knew already the ol' pinstripes wasn't your average zombie but I'm guessing we've got a ways to go before we find out just how special he is. I wanna think he was the original test subject who started the outbreak, but I can't figure out how to jive that with multiple simultaneous outbreaks.

Also on a small note, it sure sounded like the other tower's fall was happening in the middle of a rain storm. The last time I can remember it raining in the show was the scene with Michael threatening to kick Kelly out of the Tower (I wanna say chapter 7?) so maybe that establish a timeline for when this all was going down.


EDIT: Make that Chapter 4.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:28 PM
Here is the biggest outstanding questions for me. CJ makes it sound like she went all Lone Wolf. Does she hook back up with group? Who leads the failed rescued attempt? People have been losing faith in CJ for a while. But someone has the CHARISMA of a god. (S)He takes a few people that just got slapped down by organized zombies on an assault on Club Dead.

First, The Leader needs to find the intel that people were taken and not just turned into zombie chow. The Leader then has to have the intel to know that the living were brought to the Arena. Finally, arange an assault.

Distill it down to Risk vs. Reward. We know the Risk is pretty much as high as it gets. What is the reward? Kalani? Hardly. I cannot find the reward or the charisma to get it done.

Spin it around.

The rescue party is not The Other Tower. Could it be the Mallers?

In this case, the reward would not be the rescue, but the destruction of Ink etal. The Risk is reduced because of Bravado and that the mallers have seemed to have turned back one or more zombie assaults. Not to mention the counter risk that if you do not do it, Scratch or Durai will shoot your ass. We already have direct evidence that Durai has a fundamental desire to hit and destroy the arena. Maybe the mallers have also learned that instead of a walking, talking MRE, people are now Take Out food. Before Durai can hit the nest, he has to learn where the Arena is. Counter surveilence of watching were Kalani was taken lets them know where the Other Tower is located. Repeat the process to find the location of the arena.

Two outstanding questions vexing the community. (1) What does Scratch want? For Kalani to be captured. -- "Better start running". With Hannah Hostage it is easy to predict that Kalani will try to escape and get back to the mallers. (2) Why send Kalani? He is... wait for it... almost certainly to be captured because he is


Fat

and his cardio sucks.

Again, it is SuperFly off the Top Rope. But, this time, I left out the double flip (I hope)

I very much doubt that when Scratch sent Kalani to CJ's tower that she knew he would be captured. Essentially Scratch chose him because he could be blackmailed, thus providing her with assurance that the job would get done and she would not be betrayed by her spy. By the time she is made aware of the tower being over run, she simply says, "Better start running" because she could give a shit about the survival of Kalani.

The rescue attempt had to have been made by CJ's members. Samantha told Datu that her people came for her. She could see them through the glass. I'm certain this is why seeing them all die had such a terrible impact on her. She could see the faces of the people she knew and that they were all dying trying to save her. Risk vs Reward: the risk was astronomical and the reward...to save a life. Angel and Riley were just two going in to save one but they didn't stop, even after suffering through hell.

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:46 PM
I very much doubt that when Scratch sent Kalani to CJ's tower that she knew he would be captured. Essentially Scratch chose him because he could be blackmailed, thus providing her with assurance that the job would get done and she would not be betrayed by her spy. By the time she is made aware of the tower being over run, she simply says, "Better start running" because she could give a shit about the survival of Kalani.

The rescue attempt had to have been made by CJ's members. Samantha told Datu that her people came for her. She could see them through the glass. I'm certain this is why seeing them all die had such a terrible impact on her. She could see the faces of the people she knew and that they were all dying trying to save her. Risk vs Reward: the risk was astronomical and the reward...to save a life. Angel and Riley were just two going in to save one but they didn't stop, even after suffering through hell.

could she though?...im not trying to argue the point cause I do believe your right..but I like what art was getting at...hinking that the mallers would make a first attempt at the area with a simple extermination sweep could explain he how's and why's of tardust being so thorough with this planning blowing the thing up. Motivations homie...gotta have em..but sadly your right..probly p-p tower people

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:57 PM
Also on a small note, it sure sounded like the other tower's fall was happening in the middle of a rain storm. The last time I can remember it raining in the show was the scene with Michael threatening to kick Kelly out of the Tower (I wanna say chapter 7?) so maybe that establish a timeline for when this all was going down.


EDIT: Make that Chapter 4.

I noticed the rain storm as well and I can't believe I forgot to mention it. I guess I got too stuck on Kalani the druggie to remember it. That would put my WND theory in jeopardy in regards to why Scratch could care less. Like you said the only time we remember it raining was when Burt, Saul and Lizzy found the wrecked ambush. So if that's the only time then that means Scratch would not be aware of Our Tower yet....meaning her bitchy 'tude serves no purpose

UndeadSweeper
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:16 PM
I noticed the rain storm as well and I can't believe I forgot to mention it. I guess I got too stuck on Kalani the druggie to remember it. That would put my WND theory in jeopardy in regards to why Scratch could care less. Like you said the only time we remember it raining was when Burt, Saul and Lizzy found the wrecked ambush. So if that's the only time then that means Scratch would not be aware of Our Tower yet....meaning her bitchy 'tude serves no purpose

So was this an operation then just an overruning? So they hit the the convoy and the other tower at the same thing? Or can the pump station be include in the operation?

Grognaurd
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:16 PM
Careful with the linking of the rainstorms. The one at "Our" Tower occurred before Kalani got to The Other Tower. Burt, Saul and Lizzy find the convoy that got hit. It was one hell of a firefight and ~ 20 people. Kalani tells Michael and Angel that they lost a convoy of 15-20 people before they got there. I find it more likely that it rained on multiple days then a time sink.

reaper239
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:18 PM
I noticed the rain storm as well and I can't believe I forgot to mention it. I guess I got too stuck on Kalani the druggie to remember it. That would put my WND theory in jeopardy in regards to why Scratch could care less. Like you said the only time we remember it raining was when Burt, Saul and Lizzy found the wrecked ambush. So if that's the only time then that means Scratch would not be aware of Our Tower yet....meaning her bitchy 'tude serves no purpose

COULDN'T CARE LESS DAMNIT! that is a pet peeve of mine, people say "i could care less" oh yeah, well i couldn't possibly care less, that is how little i care. but what i do care about is grammer. just like saying sneaked. "he sneaked into the building" like hell he did, what he did was, he snuck into the building, being as there is no such thing as sneaked. RAGE!!!!! over

Grognaurd
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:26 PM
I am not going to flog a dead horse on this one. But, Datu writes that Samantha said... Kalani, writes what he remembers 20 days after it happened without feeling he had to keep notes about actions at that time.

Second, as 7odd says, we do not know if they can see or be seen. Samantha says she was taken from "them" and "they" were with me.

No reason there could not be two groups. Hell, as far as the story goes, it is a "must see" attraction.

Kalani
Samamtha and her group
Riley and Angel
Scratch and lizzy and all
Saul
Less blatant: Skittles gets there

Maybe a group of mallers is not out of the question.

Scratch also says You'll find something... Would she say that so camly if her plan to locate The Other Tower failed? We all know how cool and collected she is.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:27 PM
Careful with the linking of the rainstorms. The one at "Our" Tower occurred before Kalani got to The Other Tower. Burt, Saul and Lizzy find the convoy that got hit. It was one hell of a firefight and ~ 20 people. Kalani tells Michael and Angel that they lost a convoy of 15-20 people before they got there. I find it more likely that it rained on multiple days then a time sink.

I agree. I have been cataloging events and although we hear one rain storm, I am willing to bet there were storms we didn't hear about. Besides, in a big city it isn't uncommon for one area to receive rain whereas other parts do not. At current, in the timeline I don't want to make this a discussion about the timeline but just some things to consider; it was raining when the convoy got hit, it was raining when team SLB finds the remains of the convoy. It could have been a long storm system. The tower was over run approximately three days after the convoy was over run. Team SLB encounter Pinstripes at the convoy remains. Did they see him only hours prior to his attempt to break in to CJ's tower? Possibly.

Grognaurd
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:27 PM
COULDN'T CARE LESS DAMNIT! that is a pet peeve of mine, people say "i could care less" oh yeah, well i couldn't possibly care less, that is how little i care. but what i do care about is grammer. just like saying sneaked. "he sneaked into the building" like hell he did, what he did was, he snuck into the building, being as there is no such thing as sneaked. RAGE!!!!! over

Ah reaper you crack me up. But, after 20 years of bulitin boards, I am burned out...

cupcakezombie
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:29 PM
hmm...lots of things to mull over in this one. We knew already the ol' pinstripes wasn't your average zombie but I'm guessing we've got a ways to go before we find out just how special he is. I wanna think he was the original test subject who started the outbreak, but I can't figure out how to jive that with multiple simultaneous outbreaks.

Also on a small note, it sure sounded like the other tower's fall was happening in the middle of a rain storm. The last time I can remember it raining in the show was the scene with Michael threatening to kick Kelly out of the Tower (I wanna say chapter 7?) so maybe that establish a timeline for when this all was going down.


EDIT: Make that Chapter 4.

My thoughts exactly. There is likely to be other rain storms, but this seemed pretty heavy so, maybe we can pin the two together.

reaper239
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:33 PM
Ah reaper you crack me up. But, after 20 years of bulitin boards, I am burned out...

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!! say it with me now ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!! RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cupcakezombie
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:40 PM
COULDN'T CARE LESS DAMNIT! that is a pet peeve of mine, people say "i could care less" oh yeah, well i couldn't possibly care less, that is how little i care. but what i do care about is grammer. just like saying sneaked. "he sneaked into the building" like hell he did, what he did was, he snuck into the building, being as there is no such thing as sneaked. RAGE!!!!! over

Point of note: If you are going to rage about grammer, especially from someone who normally has an excellent command of the English language, make sure your punctuation is correct please. Thank-you. :)
Story ended. Back to chapter discussion

symon_r
Mar 19th, 2012, 01:57 PM
Do the zombies have a sense of self-preservation?

When CJ is cornered she takes a few of them down and they stop advancing on her. Now it’s perfectly possible that there was some non-verbal communication from a smart one but given the verbal command that came later I'm not sure about that.

So either the regular zombies made a value judgement that their life(?) was more important than a well-defended position (I'm not sure they knew she was alone?) or a smart one made a similar value judgement on their behalf. Their are interesting implications of both scenarios. Could it mean that a regular zombie wouldn’t follow an order blindly if they perceived it contrary to their best interest or why does a smart one care if a few of their less cranially endowed colleagues get slaughtered?

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:13 PM
Do the zombies have a sense of self-preservation?

When CJ is cornered she takes a few of them down and they stop advancing on her. Now it’s perfectly possible that there was some non-verbal communication from a smart one but given the verbal command that came later I'm not sure about that.

So either the regular zombies made a value judgement that their life(?) was more important than a well-defended position (I'm not sure they knew she was alone?) or a smart one made a similar value judgement on their behalf. Their are interesting implications of both scenarios. Could it mean that a regular zombie wouldn’t follow an order blindly if they perceived it contrary to their best interest or why does a smart one care if a few of their less cranially endowed colleagues get slaughtered?

Brilliant! I like your way of thinking. I am going to put more stock in the latter notion; that a smart one made the call for them, although we can't be certain because, as you said, we didn't hear any verbal command. But who knows, the one leading them (I'm assuming it was Pinstripes) may have done something as simple as place a hand on the shoulder of the next one about to meet it's true death around that corner.

CJ lucked out though because although she dropped 4 or 5 zed heads, she would have eventually run out of full clips to load up.

Litmaster
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:22 PM
Lots good has been mentioned already, but here's my main thoughts on the newest. Sorry for the length... I tried to make it as easy to scan/read as possible. <br />
<br />
<br />
On Zombie Intelligence, Especially...

cupcakezombie
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:34 PM
On Skittles Not Being Chomped
- He mentioned that he was "right there" and "they didn't look at me".
- But he had later encounters with zombies after him, like the time when he had to hide in the dumpster.

Theory: Skittles does not give off a scent to the zombies the same way that most people do. This could explain why he wasn't attacked (they didn't immediately recognize him as a target) and why he could hide in a dumpster successfully even though that other guy was found in a closet, out of sight.


It could be as Skittles rather then Duncan, he gives off a different 'crazy person' scent that zombies don't associate with food. Many different hormones and reactions in your body can change the way you smell, so maybe Skittles no longer smells like food. This could link in with why animals are not a target for the chompers, they, obviously, don't smell like people/food.

nikvoodoo
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:43 PM
COULDN'T CARE LESS DAMNIT! that is a pet peeve of mine, people say "i could care less" oh yeah, well i couldn't possibly care less, that is how little i care. but what i do care about is grammer. just like saying sneaked. "he sneaked into the building" like hell he did, what he did was, he snuck into the building, being as there is no such thing as sneaked. RAGE!!!!! over

grammer nazis who spell grammar incorrectly is my pet peeve.

symon_r
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:43 PM
Brilliant! I like your way of thinking. I am going to put more stock in the latter notion; that a smart one made the call for them, although we can't be certain because, as you said, we didn't hear any verbal command. But who knows, the one leading them (I'm assuming it was Pinstripes) may have done something as simple as place a hand on the shoulder of the next one about to meet it's true death around that corner.

CJ lucked out though because although she dropped 4 or 5 zed heads, she would have eventually run out of full clips to load up.

Firstly thanks!

Secondly, I'm with you that CJ really lucked out because she would have run out of ammo but also we heard her reload after she drops the last zombie. It could be good drills because she knew the clip was low it or it could have been the dead mans click for her if after the next one came around the corner.

UndeadSweeper
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:51 PM
It could be as Skittles rather then Duncan, he gives off a different 'crazy person' scent that zombies don't associate with food. Many different hormones and reactions in your body can change the way you smell, so maybe Skittles no longer smells like food. This could link in with why animals are not a target for the chompers, they, obviously, don't smell like people/food.

If they keep ignore him, he will be their downfall. He getting a lot of intel on them.

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:52 PM
litmaster
There's no I in team... When you dont feel like you have no say in what's going on..thats a turn off. To me, hearing cj say "i don't have one of those" in the previous chapter..made it seem more like she was collecting tools, not saving lives...i wouldn't want to be a part of that. So while yes...planning was amazing..if your people don't believe in you..how can you expect them to execute. That for me is where the piss poor thing comes from

but I must say...i think I like agree with cj the most from a personal angle...lone wolf hide in the basement...yea..thats me all day

Litmaster
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:54 PM
Oh, and regarding this: <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
This has got me thinking, in the last 20 minutes or so, of whether the zombies are all following diverse, fractious tribes, each ruled-over by it's own savagely...

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 02:58 PM
I'm calling copyright infringement...blatant rip off Of troll pope

:D

AdrianHD
Mar 19th, 2012, 03:44 PM
grammer nazis who spell grammar incorrectly is my pet peeve.

Ugh, I was going to say that. Haha!

--

Anyway, you guys are dissecting the episode well. I think this is my favorite episode of We're Alive. I like backstories and side-stories. The Colony was a huge hit for me and so is this. It's so nice to finally get some of the story all wrapped up. Now just a bit more Kalani reading to do and we're golden with a lot of our questions!

Kc
Mar 19th, 2012, 03:50 PM
The rescue party is not The Other Tower. Could it be the Mallers?


Nope. Samantha saw them, and could recognize some of them. But that didn't matter. They all died anyway. If you think about it, the arena scene contains nothing but dead people. Except for Datu that is.

Cabbage Patch
Mar 19th, 2012, 04:05 PM
On 'Piss-Poor' Execution In The Other Tower
A little too harsh on C.J. and the gang, don't you think, guys? They had fallback positions, hidden orchards, remote weapons stashes, etc.... put Saul's crappy motor-pool modifications to shame! Certainly a lot of great planning and organization involved... no one can really dispute that. But:
- Yes, you guys are right that said the weapons stashes speaks to a lack of trust on C.J.'s part, and
- There seemed to be a small elite 'in the know' at C.J.'s tower who kept a lot of underlings in the dark, and
- Michael mentioned that the officers make the plans, but it is the NCOs who figure out how to make it work, so
- C.J.'s tower seemed to lack a committed core of NCO's to back up her plans. Also,

- The guys at our tower managed to repel a ferocious attack by the Mallers, even half-drunk and out of ammo
- The group at Michael's tower were smaller and less organized, but seemingly much closer knit
- Michael even mentioned he started thinking of them as soldiers, but them came to think of them as family
- And we will all die for our families...right?

Observation: It seems to me that C.J.'s tower, despite being physically and technologically superior, was inferior to ours in one essential aspect: heart. You could say that our guys have survived better because they came together as family, and that when TSHTF, C.J.'s group could never get beyond just thinking for themselves, thus dissolving into chaos.

This got me thinking about the similarities between the Other Tower and the Colony. Both were very efficient operations where people worked hard at jobs that seemed to give them little joy. Both were strictly hierarchical, run by people who seemed intent on controlling the flow of information and access to weapons. Both seemed almost as focused on keeping their own people in as on keeping others out. That's not to say that the Other Tower was a bad place, just that it seemed a lot less inviting than our Tower.

bvglee
Mar 19th, 2012, 06:50 PM
Nope. Samantha saw them, and could recognize some of them. But that didn't matter. They all died anyway. If you think about it, the arena scene contains nothing but dead people. Except for Datu that is.

Since Samantha's initial chat with Datu she told him to pray his friends doesn't come to rescue him, because her friends did and died in the process. And she told Kalany that she was with the armed rescue party and got taken, then they followed. So, it's been clearly stated from the beginning that they're from CJ's Tower.

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 07:21 PM
So I've spent the majority of my day cursing my job and puzzling over why the suited baddee would leave cj in the basement. Which brought me around to just how much interaction he's had with our tower folk...to our knowledge, he was present after...if not during the convoy ambush, and then the attack on the other tower. Meanwhile, our tower people have had several run-ins with him. Perhaps not all on home turf..but none the less...weird.

I'm wondering..could this all just be a giant chess game to him? By this i don't mean a game of zoms vs humans...rather humans vs humans. Picking off all the dead weight until the city is left with only the few remaining humans he deems worthy of the game. Once all the pieces are in place..let em have at each other...then you only have the remaining to contend with...or play with.

I realize I'm probly giving his level of intelligence far to much credit. But i can't help wondering things like this..he behavior is just too bizarre. still not convinced he's fully undead

cleeprevo
Mar 19th, 2012, 07:36 PM
He might not be fully undead. Skittles said the zombies didn't go after him when they were attacking tower #2. So maybe this means the undead are friendly with certain people. Plus, we can never under estimate the zombies, they could be capable of anything.

Willy Beamen
Mar 19th, 2012, 08:41 PM
Interesting that we are assuming the zombie motives here, which is to say, other than Ink, the forum is operating under the assumption that the zombie mass are in an end-game, last man standing, elimination style vendetta with the goal of simply mindlessly eradicating and eating everything in sight. We know NOTHING about their motives, which is a huge hole in all of our logic. Can we derive motive from actions? If so then these are a puzzling bunch of undead beings with no real recurring characteristics other than a variety of diverse conflict orientated interactions with non-zombies. Let us revisit the outbreak and decide if this is calculated or not. Indeed, we haven't touched on the possibilities of other such "leaders" for other factions of zombie groups...ie. was there an "Ink" in Hawaii, or is Ink a world wide, one of a kind anomaly? Asking this questions leads us to realize that we are assuming that "leave her" was Ink, which a few of you have questioned.
We cannot reason with the seemingly unreasonable.
So why leaving CJ and skittles...selective eating? self preservation as a next step in evolution? sustainable farming practices? Or a piece in a puzzle that we cannot possibly conceive because kC is only letting us see one piece at a time through a microscope of brilliant story telling.
I know it is no fun to simply state that we can't know anything for sure, so lets say this...
LA is not a microcosm representing the zombie apocalyptic world...it is a unique occurrence. There is only one Ink.

7oddisdead
Mar 19th, 2012, 09:24 PM
Hmm..im trying to wrap my brain around all this. I honestly could care less about the motives of the zombies...to me l, their motives are simple...survive...find food..do what that one cat in the suit says...bout it. The anomaly (and yes, I totally agree that he is an anomaly) is ink. He truly is in my opinion the only member of the undead faction we should concern ourselves with..the rest are simply faceless soldiers...the occasional general may make a cameo appearance every now and then (ie: randy)..but beyond that..they are simply plot devices..in my eyes. To understand the end game of the zombies is to understand inks behavior

And yea..by ink I mean that one dude we call like thirty different names...seriously. I'll give ya their may be a ringleader in the arena during the purgatory scene..but there's Only one suit wearing guy..im bout over the hundred names of confusion....end/ rant

Willy Beamen
Mar 20th, 2012, 12:03 AM
I think to underestimate the zombie mass as a character without the same depth as the rest of the characters is to ignore an entire element of this story. We have the human perspective, and that drives the narrative, but the zombie perspective is beyond our privilege and eventually their motives will have to be explored. We are already theorizing their actions, but through our own humanistic values. Mindless killers? Sure, but why all this strange behavior? The arena would suggest they have the capacity for pleasure and excitement, following orders shows loyalty, following complex orders suggests understanding and on and on it can go.
If they are mindless killers, then the only possible outcome is death, and not just death for humans, but eventual death of zombies as such behavior can only lead to their own destruction. Is the tunnel vision of the zombies reflective of the survivors?
I know kC has mentioned before that this is a story of humans, not of zombies, so the discussion of zombie motives would appear moot, but I would argue the opposite by echoing Michaels whole logic of documenting and gathering intel on the zombie threat in an effort to "know thy enemy".
Why is this here and not in the theories? Well, because I believe we are entering a pivotal point of the story line...the formula has suddenly changed. No more colonial style warfare of construct and defend, it clearly doesn't work as every fortification has fallen (including the zombie arena) and pretty soon the survivors are going to figure out that this whole mess isn't going to just "go away" by hiding in the elusive safe place that everyone seems to be looking for. The zombies are here, and there will be a time when their motives can't be ignored.

7oddisdead
Mar 20th, 2012, 03:15 AM
I think to underestimate the zombie mass as a character without the same depth as the rest of the characters is to ignore an entire element of this story. We have the human perspective, and that drives the narrative, but the zombie perspective is beyond our privilege and eventually their motives will have to be explored. We are already theorizing their actions, but through our own humanistic values. Mindless killers? Sure, but why all this strange behavior? The arena would suggest they have the capacity for pleasure and excitement, following orders shows loyalty, following complex orders suggests understanding and on and on it can go.
If they are mindless killers, then the only possible outcome is death, and not just death for humans, but eventual death of zombies as such behavior can only lead to their own destruction. Is the tunnel vision of the zombies reflective of the survivors?
I know kC has mentioned before that this is a story of humans, not of zombies, so the discussion of zombie motives would appear moot, but I would argue the opposite by echoing Michaels whole logic of documenting and gathering intel on the zombie threat in an effort to "know thy enemy".
Why is this here and not in the theories? Well, because I believe we are entering a pivotal point of the story line...the formula has suddenly changed. No more colonial style warfare of construct and defend, it clearly doesn't work as every fortification has fallen (including the zombie arena) and pretty soon the survivors are going to figure out that this whole mess isn't going to just "go away" by hiding in the elusive safe place that everyone seems to be looking for. The zombies are here, and there will be a time when their motives can't be ignored.

well now..if you wanna talk about the mass of zombies as a whole that's a different story..i might have been slightly sidetracked earlier and didn't catch that/just didnt register what your trying to convey. the problem i have is...most of this has little to do with this chapter. BUT!...in a way it does

so during the attack on the other tower, what did the undead horde, as a collective...do? busted in..when given the "attack" or "kill" or whatever call..and started wrecking shop. killing wildly(least thats the way i took the scene playing out), nothing unusual there. however, when we come to the group that went to the basement after CJ they appeared to show restraint on some level..how much did that have to do with ink being present? at this point we have no way of knowing..but the fact remains, they either heard or saw four of their party get taken out and hesitated before rounding the corner, that shows some level of cunning and a survival instict for sure

speaking of that scene...and with a nod to undeadsweeper and A_hero who first acknowledged this...how exactly did ink and crew A: know to look for CJ in the basement B: know she was in fact, a she..

i think that first part (A) is the one bit that drives me the most crazy...it would be one thing for ink to sneak in..get "the party started" so to say..and step back and watch the fireworks..in fact that kind of seems his m.o. (watching you from the rooftops) but the fact that he went down to the basement...specifically were CJ was holding up, and drew his minions away??... that speaks of something quite deliberate...calculated..i dunno, im just facinated by this aspect of the story (small detail: if you listen closely, when ink and crew leave the basement,youcan hear the same footsteps that we heard when kalani and riley ran into ink in the basement of the hospital..fun stuff right there)

but i wont disagree with most of the stuff you have said..hell, i like the majority of the ideas..but i do disagree as to this thread being the proper place for them..unless put into the context of this chapter

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 20th, 2012, 06:36 AM
Regarding Pinstripes:
I view Pinstripes as a smart but sick individual. It leaves me with the impression that it enjoys taunting and playing with the emotions of it's prey, as well as getting pleasure out of the physical pain it causes humans. When Michael and the rest encountered it in their own tower, it stood up after having been shot (presumably upon hearing the humans were out of ammo) and it laughed. It mocked them and relished the looks of surprise coming from the humans that had assumed it to be an unintelligent animal.

Then we have the slaughter house in the arena. Is this the manifestation of just one of the multiple personalities of Pinstripes/Ink/Bill Roberts/The One With Markings? It's very just that he has so many nicknames as he was a paranoid schizophrenic suffering from multiple personalities. The arena slaughter house of zombie pleasure could be just one of the many facets of Pinstripes mind. He is an anomaly because of the nature of his brain; it was literally wired different than yours or mine before being infected, and now that he's got Z juice pumping through those veins, god only knows what his brain looks like. He holds these bloody arena games to entertain his horde, and perhaps that is their motivation for joining his ranks. He offers them protection in numbers, entertainment in death, and a guaranteed food supply.

In the moments when the zombies under his lead spare the life of Skittles, I believe we are witnessing Pinstripes dole out emotional torture. He probably loves that he is creating a loon. Hell, he may have had intentions of eventually turning Skittles and creating another special breed of zeds; those with a mental condition on top of zombism, making for a dangerously unpredictable zed with stellar survival skills. But I do believe that Pinstripes gave his horde the order to spare Duncan so that he can let this one human being suffer terrible mental anguish. The same applies for CJ. He probably decided that not only was it not prudent to lose a handful of zeds in attempting to capture or kill CJ in that hallway, but he must have known that leaving her be would have great negative impact on her leadership abilities.

I am also of the opinion that Pinstripes is not the only one Pimp ass zombie in the world. He may be the only one of his caliber in L.A. but I do believe there are other ranking contenders to his throne, not to mention the potential for zombies leaders of an even higher caliber living in other cities across the world. I feel by day 3 of the outbreak, what you had worldwide, was the establishment of zombie kingdoms in all the major cities. I don't view We're Alive as a summer blockbuster movie in which the hero of the world and the Apocalypse are both found in New York or L.A. Los Angeles is just the first major hurdle, the first Independance Day space ship that needs to be destroyed in order to show the rest of the world "how to take those sons-of-bitches down."

mem
Mar 20th, 2012, 06:43 AM
The story never falters as you guide us through the world that is We're Alive. I sound like a broken record I know but I can't quit saying how the sound effects, background noises and music get better each episode. When it seems that you guys have finally set the bar high enough, you leap a little higher. The failed rescue/arena scene was perfection. I was on the edge of my seat in a panic hoping all would end well (even though i already knew it wouldn't). The sound effects worked so beautifully here. One didnt need to see it on a tv/movie screen to know what was happening.

UndeadSweeper
Mar 20th, 2012, 06:59 AM
Hmm... I believe that undead horde has a level of restraint and survival instinct. Remember when they were are the boat and Micheal notice that the one coming for them look like they "weaker"
then ones on the mainland. As remember lunchtime at the Arena. Preservation is their pattern.

Side-note: Adventureless_Hero Since you are still in the 1st season of Walking Dead, can you tell me in what eps that some of them when to a Gold Gym and work out for a month to the song " I'm sexy and I know it"? :rolleyes:

Cabbage Patch
Mar 20th, 2012, 07:15 AM
Theory: Skittles does not give off a scent to the zombies the same way that most people do. This could explain why he wasn't attacked (they didn't immediately recognize him as a target) and why he could hide in a dumpster successfully even though that other guy was found in a closet, out of sight. [/COLOR]

I wonder if Skittles' survival isn't a factor of pheromones. I remember reading that dogs can sense humans who suffer from schizophrenia and some other mental disorders. This is probably accomplished through their sense of smell, which suggests the existence of "crazy" pheromones. We already know how sensitive zombies are to pheromones. Maybe "crazy" pheromones cause zombies to instinctively avoid the broadcasting humans, or even makes the humans invisible to them (like alcohol seems to do).

Lvmetndr
Mar 20th, 2012, 07:34 AM
**RESIDENT EVIL THEORY (I'm using the movies)**

We know the hospital was doing some kinds of experiments so is it safe to say that maybe Ink either injected himself or was injected with a virus? I apologize but I don't know everyone's name from the RE games/movies. In the 2nd movie there was the T-Virus infected Matt who was able to follow orders via satellite and in the 3rd movie the Dr. injected himself with the Anti-Virus b/c he was attacked by his own brand of zombies whom he was able to control and teach to an extent.

Just an idea.


After some light reading I do believe that the zombies and Ink were able to tell the gender of CJ based on her body odor. There are a few factors that can contribute to someone's individual body order.

Grognaurd
Mar 20th, 2012, 07:59 AM
Nope. Samantha saw them, and could recognize some of them. But that didn't matter. They all died anyway. If you think about it, the arena scene contains nothing but dead people. Except for Datu that is.

Yes, when I listened the second time, they could see what is going on. Samantha goes as far to say that (via Kalani's version) that she was with them and they were other members of the apartment. But, it can strengthen my Off the Top Rope for part3.

IamPaul
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:00 AM
I loved this episode, but somehow I feel nickvoodoo affected the length of this episode.(Listen to We're Not Dead) I was waiting for the last bit of show to be Riley and Angel rescueing Datu and then Kalani. Nit Pick Nit Pick. This was a great chapter. I am now ready to move on now. Ready to get back to Fort Iriwin and the Saul Lizzie storyline. Kalani is the Severus Snape of the WA world. kinda. I guess.

IamPaul
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:02 AM
It is also official that these are not just Zombies. That "leave her" was so clear and chilling.

nikvoodoo
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:29 AM
I loved this episode, but somehow I feel nickvoodoo affected the length of this episode.(Listen to We're Not Dead) I was waiting for the last bit of show to be Riley and Angel rescueing Datu and then Kalani. Nit Pick Nit Pick. This was a great chapter. I am now ready to move on now. Ready to get back to Fort Iriwin and the Saul Lizzie storyline. Kalani is the Severus Snape of the WA world. kinda. I guess.

*polishing nails on shirt*

Yeah....I'm kind of a big deal and influence the length of the show....

Yeah I don't believe me either.

Kc
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:30 AM
*polishing nails on shirt*

Yeah....I'm kind of a big deal and influence the length of the show....

Yeah I don't believe me either.
Content influences episode length. Not any sort of voodoo magic.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:36 AM
I was hoping the episode would keep going up to the point where Kalani kamikazes. I wanted to know if he gabbed the truth to anyone else in tower, like to Kelly, and if he was the one who fired the shot that jump started the war.

Big G
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:40 AM
I think that when Victor mentions what happens to Sean at the Colony. CJ will get mad and want to go to the Colony and kill Gatekeeper. Then when they finally get there they will find that is where the Mallers went and that is how they will find out where the Malllers went

clem131
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:43 AM
Ready to get back to Fort Iriwin and the Saul Lizzie storyline. Kalani is the Severus Snape of the WA world. kinda. I guess.

nonononononono please!! There's still a lot to know about Kalani!!

nikvoodoo
Mar 20th, 2012, 11:20 AM
Content influences episode length. Not any sort of voodoo magic.

you just think it has nothing to do with voodoo magic............that's what's so beautiful about it! ;)

Oh so btw I got so wrapped up in all the content of this season I totally forgot to eat a touch of crow: The Mallers obviously did not go to the Other Tower now did they? So much for that championed idea of mine! It never clicked until I read Big G's comment. It's starting to look pretty promising that the Mallers headed South to the Colony.....it is the only other thing we know is down south as of this moment....

I wonder if Shovel Face is now Gatekeeper now that Gatekeeper is Supreme Leader.....

HardKor
Mar 20th, 2012, 11:33 AM
i think that first part (A) is the one bit that drives me the most crazy...it would be one thing for ink to sneak in..get "the party started" so to say..and step back and watch the fireworks..in fact that kind of seems his m.o. (watching you from the rooftops) but the fact that he went down to the basement...specifically were CJ was holding up, and drew his minions away??... that speaks of something quite deliberate...calculated..i dunno, im just facinated by this aspect of the story (small detail: if you listen closely, when ink and crew leave the basement,youcan hear the same footsteps that we heard when kalani and riley ran into ink in the basement of the hospital..fun stuff right there)

but i wont disagree with most of the stuff you have said..hell, i like the majority of the ideas..but i do disagree as to this thread being the proper place for them..unless put into the context of this chapter

Didn't the zombies, or at least the bulk of them get in through the basement? It sounded to me like Ink got in through the front, let out a howl and the horde came in through the area in the basement they were reinforcing. So maybe its just a case of CJ accidentally ran into the tide of zombies on her way to find her weapon stash and they found her, then Ink followed the gunfire and called off his "men" because CJ was too dangerous a threat to them.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 20th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Yeah, the fact that gatekeeper takes the name of his current position is going to make things a bit wonky for some folks who don't keep up.

Gatekeepers new title will be President? Herr Fuehrer?
I am actually hoping, though it is a very slim chance, that Markus survived the coup and actually had Gatekeeper's rebellion squashed. But I'm thinking this is more likely the case:

Gatekeeper to radio: "Who the hell do you think you are, asking for me on my radio, by my real name?"
man on radio: "Come now. Is that any way to speak to me?"
Gatekeeper: "Durai?!"

I get the feeling Gatekeeper is a former Eastern Bay inmate, possibly even a former Sister.

IamPaul
Mar 20th, 2012, 12:30 PM
I was hoping the episode would keep going up to the point where Kalani kamikazes. I wanted to know if he gabbed the truth to anyone else in tower, like to Kelly, and if he was the one who fired the shot that jump started the war.

I am going to guess that kalani took the shot. Maybe tried to hit Scratch or Durai. Also I have listened to season 1 a quadrillion times (actually probably around 5) and when Kalani first gets to the tower, he has guard duty the morning of the day they have the party. He probably called the Mallers in desperation.

thatrichterkid
Mar 20th, 2012, 12:38 PM
So Skittles is the new Duncan??
Who exactly said "Leave her" and who was it to?

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 20th, 2012, 12:58 PM
I am going to guess that kalani took the shot. Maybe tried to hit Scratch or Durai. Also I have listened to season 1 a quadrillion times (actually probably around 5) and when Kalani first gets to the tower, he has guard duty the morning of the day they have the party. He probably called the Mallers in desperation.

Yeah, I had put that down in my timeline. But I can't be 100% that Kalani fired the shot. It seems like a dangerous thing to do when they are holding your kid hostage. There are a number of crazy scenarios that could have led to Kalani firing that shot:

-shoot first, jump start a war between the prison people and these tower people, rescue Hannah in the confusion
-Scratch may have ordered him to fire the first shot, knowing that the Tower folk would not want to fight, so she could have said he needed to be the catalyst to get the war started, thinking that the Mallers could not afford to waste the opportunity to attack (keep in mind they knew the tower folk had no ammo and would be drunk) also, where did he get the gun? were they handing them out at this point? or did he steal it in cahoots with Bill? Did a maller sneak around that morning and leave a gun with some blank rounds?
-maybe he fired the first shot aimed at Hannah's captor, just as you suggested
-he may have also been mislead into believing Hannah was already dead at this point, and lured the mallers to the tower in hopes of getting revenge

There are too many possibilities at the moment.


So Skittles is the new Duncan??
Who exactly said "Leave her" and who was it to?

Skittles is not the NEW Duncan, but rather the guy you always knew as Skittles, it turns out his real name is Duncan. He was a member of CJ's tower.
As far as who said "Leave her" it was a flesh biter, presumably Pinstripes. It was a command directed at other flesh biters telling them to leave Chinwe, aka CJ, alone.

Try to keep up, newbie. :p

UndeadSweeper
Mar 20th, 2012, 01:55 PM
-Scratch may have ordered him to fire the first shot, knowing that the Tower folk would not want to fight, so she could have said he needed to be the catalyst to get the war started, thinking that the Mallers could not afford to waste the opportunity to attack (keep in mind they knew the tower folk had no ammo and would be drunk) also, where did he get the gun? were they handing them out at this point? or did he steal it in cahoots with Bill? Did a maller sneak around that morning and leave a gun with some blank rounds?
I think you may have hit it! Scratch has shown that she have her own agenda. Also I assume he would got a gun during the escape from the Arena. Or he could have when he hide the guns before the war.

Or maybe it was a Bug out bag. Someone was pulling a CJ Moment.

Litmaster
Mar 20th, 2012, 03:05 PM
There's been lots of speculation about the nature of the zombies again with this new episode, which has led me to concoct a (I think) new theory about Zombie Lineages. It attempts to answer questions such as

- WHY TO THE ZOMBIES SEEM TO FORM TRIBES (i.e. 'cliques') UNDER ONE 'LEADER'?
- HOW DID 'INK' (et. al.) ASSUME SUCH LEADERSHIP?
- IS INTELLIGENCE THE MAIN FACTOR THAT QUALIFIES A ZOMBIE FOR LEADERSHIP?
- HOW DOES ONE ZOMBIE 'JOIN' A PARTICULAR TRIBE?


Check out the theory, posted here (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3002).

7oddisdead
Mar 20th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Didn't the zombies, or at least the bulk of them get in through the basement? It sounded to me like Ink got in through the front, let out a howl and the horde came in through the area in the basement they were reinforcing. So maybe its just a case of CJ accidentally ran into the tide of zombies on her way to find her weapon stash and they found her, then Ink followed the gunfire and called off his "men" because CJ was too dangerous a threat to them.

Depends on how the word "downstairs" is used. Several times they mentioned those downstairs..i went downstairs...yadda yadda..but at no point did I hear they came in through the basement...no hate man,I had to double check myself..but I took it as the looby area..downstairs..think of this..when Saul and Vic were brought in..they made note of a wall being kinda sloppily built(paraphrasing)..i don't believe they came in through the basement there either, so yea...

Willy Beamen
Mar 20th, 2012, 04:11 PM
but i wont disagree with most of the stuff you have said..hell, i like the majority of the ideas..but i do disagree as to this thread being the proper place for them..unless put into the context of this chapter

I dig it...and I guess your right. Proper place for the proper discussion eh? Still getting ahold of this whole "Forum" thing. Truth be told this is the first I have ever strayed into the world of the world of Forums, been living under a rock most of last six years.
So how about the idea of Ink being unique, I think if we can assume that Ink showed up after the zombies followed CJ into the basement then we can start to argue that Ink may not be unique because the other zombies show inconsistent behavior patters, or, if he did take the group to the basement then we can assume he is unique and the only one with survivalist characteristics (besides the need to feed of course).

Tar Heel Fan
Mar 20th, 2012, 05:19 PM
I'm new here, and I don't think I've seen this, but this chapter has me thinking the following train of thought:
Reading through all the talk about CJ and the members of the other tower being involved in law enforcement, and taking the theories about TOWTM coming from Bill Roberts, who was likely at that prison, might it be possible that TOWTM recognizes CJ and Duncan? This is way out there, but perhaps they were humane towards him in the prison or stood up for him at some point. Because of his high-level of functioning, TOWTM might have stronger memory of his pre-zombified life and chooses to spare them. Something in the way "Leave her" came out struck me as a statement of mercy, not of strategy.
It seems odd that with the same amount of time, both the mallers and the other tower seemed to have a more intimate level of knowledge about the zombies than Michael and co. If the inmates of the prison were being experimented on as a part of this outbreak or Bill Roberts and his minyans played a role in spreading the outbreak, it would makes sense that these groups would know more about them and all that's going on. I'm guessing CJ has a bit more intimate knowledge of such things in her secret files, question is, when will she feel comfortable sharing that info with Saul/Victor?

Anyway, great writing, KC - you've truly created a world within this story that is captivating and believable (even in its unbelievability)

7oddisdead
Mar 20th, 2012, 05:37 PM
I'm new here, and I don't think I've seen this, but this chapter has me thinking the following train of thought:
Reading through all the talk about CJ and the members of the other tower being involved in law enforcement, and taking the theories about TOWTM coming from Bill Roberts, who was likely at that prison, might it be possible that TOWTM recognizes CJ and Duncan? This is way out there, but perhaps they were humane towards him in the prison or stood up for him at some point. Because of his high-level of functioning, TOWTM might have stronger memory of his pre-zombified life and chooses to spare them. Something in the way "Leave her" came out struck me as a statement of mercy, not of strategy.
It seems odd that with the same amount of time, both the mallers and the other tower seemed to have a more intimate level of knowledge about the zombies than Michael and co. If the inmates of the prison were being experimented on as a part of this outbreak or Bill Roberts and his minyans played a role in spreading the outbreak, it would makes sense that these groups would know more about them and all that's going on. I'm guessing CJ has a bit more intimate knowledge of such things in her secret files, question is, when will she feel comfortable sharing that info with Saul/Victor?

Anyway, great writing, KC - you've truly created a world within this story that is captivating and believable (even in its unbelievability)

this I like!..of course, you could go the other way with it as well...leaving Duncan a mentally broken man and cj's tower in ruins with all her people dead...and leave her to live with it, to deal with knowing that...seems pretty vindictive and vengeful...could go either way..but that does tie the whole thing together..nice

mudpuppy
Mar 20th, 2012, 06:04 PM
Early into listening to this episode, I came to realize that Kalani's daughter had red hair. Anyone figure out why I think so? I'll say more later about this.

awkwardalex
Mar 20th, 2012, 09:25 PM
You know how I love to go off on random mini tangants so I'm sorry, but did anyone notice at the VERY end of this episode that you can hear the begining of what sounds like Pegs? maybe that's the first voice we hear next chapter...

Yeah I am no nikvoodoo but just a random thought.

Shinigami
Mar 20th, 2012, 11:34 PM
Can Duncan also be identified as skittles? Same jumpy attitude/ sounds like he's having a mental breakdown. Cj also says Duncan ran off, never to be seen again and he appears to know kalani.

John Bruno Tristan
Mar 21st, 2012, 02:59 AM
hannah is the girl killed when they try and make the "exchange" at the golf course! me thinks...

Grognaurd
Mar 21st, 2012, 06:02 AM
[QUOTE=nikvoodoo;36188] ;)

Oh so btw I got so wrapped up in all the content of this season I totally forgot to eat a touch of crow: The Mallers obviously did not go to the Other Tower now did they? QUOTE]

UGH, so much to write about too much work to get it done

Do not be too sure. I am still leaning towards the mallers using others as bait to locate the nest. When we parse what Kalani says, he siad he escaped, ran and then clocked on the head and then twice more. Now, this could just be coincidence of getting knocked down. But, to paraphrase Todd Wanio, Zach don't punch! These were the mallers...

We see others being dragged while conscious. No attempt was made to knockout Datu. Did the maller recon team knock Kalani out? Samantha was not knocked out. Nor the first dude. Tanya maybe...

nikvoodoo
Mar 21st, 2012, 06:09 AM
What I meant by it was simply I had stated many times I believed the mallers had taken up residence at the other tower. But since cj is there by herself, thats that's not possible.

Grognaurd
Mar 21st, 2012, 08:19 AM
I am going to guess that kalani took the shot. Maybe tried to hit Scratch or Durai. Also I have listened to season 1 a quadrillion times (actually probably around 5) and when Kalani first gets to the tower, he has guard duty the morning of the day they have the party. He probably called the Mallers in desperation.

Where would Kalani get a gun at the end of season 1?

If he had a gun of his own, he would have used it trying to escape the arena with Angel and Riley, so he most likely does not have a gun when he gets to the Tower. Guard duty does not seem to include a gun at this point in the story. Pegs leaves Kelly a romance novel and offers to leave Mr. Whiskers. But, no gun is mentioned. If Pegs and Paul had doubts about the man in the pinstripe suit, I think the gun would be referenced in the story. Paul may have been able to protect himself with the gun. If a gun is available, Burt would almost certainly say something, why didn’t you just shoot him? Or, “where is the gun now?” So, I am leaning towards no gun with guard duty. Guns at the tower are locked up with Burt, but the thief just struck. I cannot imagine Burt saying (in Steven’s stupid voice) “We do not let people run around the tower with loaded guns. But, since you are the new guy that no one knows, why don’t you take this gun and 20% of our remaining ammo? And no matter what, I will not ask for it back .”

Kalani cannot be the Thief and I cannot find any easy way for him to get a gun in season 1 to be the Shooter.

nikvoodoo
Mar 21st, 2012, 08:27 AM
Kalani cannot be the Thief and I cannot find any easy way for him to get a gun in season 1 to be the Shooter.

There were a lot of drunk people around that night. Could be pretty easy to swipe a gun when a bunch of drunk people are trying to get into each other's pants.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 21st, 2012, 09:01 AM
I see we spent a good portion of this thread going over stuff again (Zombie emotions and whatnot) so let me add old info to the discussion.

The first indicator that they weren't normal came during the incursion after the introduction of Pegs. One creature hid from them.
The second was after Burt's rescue with the infected sleeping.

We already knew Pinstripe could read and thereby.. reason. He also displayed "fear" or maybe caution when he got into tower II and was playing dead until he found out they were out of ammo. He was going to attack until Bruh Saul whipped out his "Knife". He reversed course after eyeball'n that.

We had the reaction or lack of a reaction to Datu falling into the trap. He was captured, not killed.

The infected taking one person at a time and clearly picking who went and who stayed in the room

The Behemoths even show a level of reasoning from the Kalani/Angel/Skittles episodes.

Someone correct me, but I also remember hearing Mr. Suit chuckle after he caught Riley's arrow.

Ok, enough on that topic.

CJ.. CJ... CJ...
Her little hiding spot wasn't a Bug out bag. That was a weapons stash that only she knew about. She didn't even trust Shawn to know about it. Her paranoia cost them the tower. Piss Poor weapons storage cost them lives.

At first glance, it would seem like it was everyone for themselves (more so in CJ's case), but when you look at the rescue attempt (which is slightly puzzling..more on that later) you see a coordinated effort.

The "Rescue Attempt"
Who was leading it?? Did it not work because there was no leader? maybe it was Angel's poor leadership? Joking, joking...

CJ is holed up in the basement and Shawn and Hope are presumbably stumbling their way south about now, so it wasn't either of them.

My opinon on why CJ was left alone:
Simple reasoning. Risk vs Reward. They had enough people and she was in a defensible postion with an unknown quantity of ammo/weapons and showed the skill to use them.

I also think Duncan/Skittles was left alone simply as a "Ah Haa!"
Like a sick pat on the back.. a perverted "at'ta boy", thanks for letting us in.... now watch this!

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM
Where would Kalani get a gun at the end of season 1?

If he had a gun of his own, he would have used it trying to escape the arena with Angel and Riley, so he most likely does not have a gun when he gets to the Tower. Guard duty does not seem to include a gun at this point in the story. Pegs leaves Kelly a romance novel and offers to leave Mr. Whiskers. But, no gun is mentioned. If Pegs and Paul had doubts about the man in the pinstripe suit, I think the gun would be referenced in the story. Paul may have been able to protect himself with the gun. If a gun is available, Burt would almost certainly say something, why didn’t you just shoot him? Or, “where is the gun now?” So, I am leaning towards no gun with guard duty. Guns at the tower are locked up with Burt, but the thief just struck. I cannot imagine Burt saying (in Steven’s stupid voice) “We do not let people run around the tower with loaded guns. But, since you are the new guy that no one knows, why don’t you take this gun and 20% of our remaining ammo? And no matter what, I will not ask for it back .”

Kalani cannot be the Thief and I cannot find any easy way for him to get a gun in season 1 to be the Shooter.


Why would Kalani be the only person the Mallers tried to use anyway? Doesn't make sense to try a tactic once. They had to have slipped someone in with the second group. Pippin was probably their 3rd attempt since we know his stories were false as hell.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 21st, 2012, 09:09 AM
Where would Kalani get a gun at the end of season 1?
Kalani cannot be the Thief and I cannot find any easy way for him to get a gun in season 1 to be the Shooter.

Aside from being surrounded by a bunch of drunk people who may have had guns on them, one can argue that after the theft of ammo and such all guns and supplies were on lock down.

One theory I mentioned in this thread not too far back was that there could have been a Maller who saw to it that Kalani jump started the war. Once he provided the intel that there would be a party in which all Tower members would likely be drunk, and that they were very low on ammo, Scratch and/or Durai may have decided the opportunity was too great to pass up. They strike while the iron was hot, so to speak. So the Mallers may have had a runner deposit a gun with blank ammo for Kalani to jump start the war. Its an unfounded theory but it a possibility.

I posted more about it here: Page 8 of this thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2994-Chapter-27-The-Thirty-First-Part-3&p=36195&viewfull=1#post36195)

Grognaurd
Mar 21st, 2012, 09:22 AM
I do not like the steal from a drunk idea. I feel the guns were controlled in the Tower. The "simon" incident early in Season 2 indicates the changes Burt made; people walking around with guns.

Going back to the Paul-break in, The emergency plan for the tower is that everyone runs and locks themselves up in their own place until they are told to come out. Even when the breach was one person, there was no evidence of a counter attact

Willy Beamen
Mar 21st, 2012, 09:24 AM
My opinon on why CJ was left alone:
Simple reasoning. Risk vs Reward. They had enough people and she was in a defensible postion with an unknown quantity of ammo/weapons and showed the skill to use them.


I gotta disagree man, too simple. The zombies have continually acted like they have an unlimited amount of resources, and their risk vs reward formula is unbalanced at best. You mentioned the trap...they had a bunch waiting under that hole for what could have been a long long time. And for what? One Datu? Planting a group like that for one dude seems...excessive...unless of course they were guessing 1 Datu x number of rescuers to follow = y number of people+original datu
Naw, there hast to be something else...maybe an example of their evolution? Maybe they sense CJ is already infected and they are sending their own "rat" into whatever group she joins. Kinda like a carrier (does anyone else remember that episode of Captain Power?)

Grognaurd
Mar 21st, 2012, 10:13 AM
And why does Scratch want a war?

Durai drives the recon on the Other Tower "because what they could be"

==================
I want to spin the Prisoner / Correction officer a bit.

Ink / Roberts is judged insane
Duncan expresses evidence of a psychotic break and Skittles is born. This does not have to be the first time
Sean warns CJ to take it easy because he is afraid that CJ will have another break down.
Martin is loaded up with Uppers and Downers.
Scratch is whacked! Latch takes the fall for something that Scratch did.

I find it very hard to believe that Scratch does the whole 007 thing to the seventh power and breaks them all out of prison. Breaking them out of a mental hospital would be much easier.

More?

The make-shift tattoo parlor and nail clippings were in a hospital, not the prison.
Does Durai sound like a Super Max con? A Correction officer? How about a Pshrink?

Do prisoners where Bright Orange Jump Suits in the prison? I do now know. I have never been to one, so I do not know. I know that they wear them when being transported (at least sometimes) Could a group of prisoners be going to the hospital for something? Scratch hits a prison transfer linked to the hospital in some way.

So instead of CJ or Duncan being prison guards how about a link via mental hospital.

Looking for Help...
Doesn't skittles tell Angel to avoid hospitals. I thought doctors / smart people / smart zombies. But, maybe it is a more personal experience.

REaching out further incase KC is throwing out random statistics and linking more people.

Burt is diagnosed as with a major depression and is on meds
Lizzy is a psychiatrist
Michael is the Tired and Depressed Sgt.
Bricks is really really monotone. Is he light autistic / Aspergers?
Pegs has a phobia of weapons that just flips and becomes a non-issue. Is she so needy that her personality warps depending on people close to her? Anti-gun. Becomes a chef, goes pro-gun, She is needy to the point of alienating both Michael and Riley
Riley could easily be a recovering alcholic.
Tardust is pretty nutso and could be a firebug...

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 21st, 2012, 10:39 AM
@ Aurthur, I know this is going to sound bad coming from someone who often is guilty of the same, but I think you are reaching too deep on that one.

As far as why Scratch would want a war with the Michaels tower and possibly force Kalani to fire the shot heard round LA is simple; they have tried to play nice and allow the Tower Members to let the Mallers in. They were denied. Durai arrived fully expecting to make a little noise. He knew he would be turned down, especially showing up with such numbers, but he didn't care. He wanted a reason to fight and possibly ordered Scratch to have her mole fire a blank round so they could have an excuse to attack the Tower.
If they found themselves victorious, then they could later tell the slaves, "Look, we tried to play nice but you shot at us. Now be compliant and maybe things will be easier for you." Just a thought.

Scratch said she bailed her brother out of prison. They say Easter bay is a prison, not a psych hospital. These guys definitely came from a prison. As far as Shauns reference to CJ having another break down, it could be as simple as she had too much effing pressure on her shoulders and she snapped. We've seen it happen to Michael.

HorrorHiro
Mar 21st, 2012, 10:47 AM
Chapter 27 - The Thirty-First - Part 3 of 3

Who had that fail of a shootout at the arena? either this is new information or I just don't remember.

nikvoodoo
Mar 21st, 2012, 10:50 AM
Chapter 27 - The Thirty-First - Part 3 of 3

Who had that fail of a shootout at the arena? either this is new information or I just don't remember.

The Other Tower attempted a rescue of those who had been taken. That's what you heard in 27-3 and was described by Samantha in chapter 10.

reaper239
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:02 AM
@ Aurthur, I know this is going to sound bad coming from someone who often is guilty of the same, but I think you are reaching too deep on that one.

As far as why Scratch would want a war with the Michaels tower and possibly force Kalani to fire the shot heard round LA is simple; they have tried to play nice and allow the Tower Members to let the Mallers in. They were denied. Durai arrived fully expecting to make a little noise. He knew he would be turned down, especially showing up with such numbers, but he didn't care. He wanted a reason to fight and possibly ordered Scratch to have her mole fire a blank round so they could have an excuse to attack the Tower.
If they found themselves victorious, then they could later tell the slaves, "Look, we tried to play nice but you shot at us. Now be compliant and maybe things will be easier for you." Just a thought.

Scratch said she bailed her brother out of prison. They say Easter bay is a prison, not a psych hospital. These guys definitely came from a prison. As far as Shauns reference to CJ having another break down, it could be as simple as she had too much effing pressure on her shoulders and she snapped. We've seen it happen to Michael.

i think durai wanted the tower completely, not to share it with the current occupants, but to take it from them completely. this would've happened whether the tower folks let in some of the mallers or not. scratch is much simpler, revenge. pegs shot latch and the tower folks sheltered pegs, so they are as guilty as she is. granted, i think it was the mallers fault, and i think that scratch knows that it was her actions that contributed to her brothers demise, but she can't deal with that so she blames the tower.

Grognaurd
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:09 AM
@ Hero. Eastern Bay is a prison. Does Scratch say she broke Latch out of Eastern Bay or does Kc leave it vague and the community made the assumption it was Eastern Bay?

CJ etal were in The Other Tower. But, Durai is unlikely to know that it was a tower. He wanted to send spies on other survivers not a tower.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:10 AM
I gotta disagree man, too simple. The zombies have continually acted like they have an unlimited amount of resources, and their risk vs reward formula is unbalanced at best. You mentioned the trap...they had a bunch waiting under that hole for what could have been a long long time. And for what? One Datu? Planting a group like that for one dude seems...excessive...unless of course they were guessing 1 Datu x number of rescuers to follow = y number of people+original datu
Naw, there hast to be something else...maybe an example of their evolution? Maybe they sense CJ is already infected and they are sending their own "rat" into whatever group she joins. Kinda like a carrier (does anyone else remember that episode of Captain Power?)

Go back and read the rest of my comments about their behaviors. Then listen to the podcast a few more times.
The trap was set for whomever fell for it. It was the behavior after Datu fell in that is an indicator that something was different. You may think that Risk vs Reward is too simple, but the evidence from prior actions suggests it. Not once have the infected just thrown waves and waves at anyone. They've shown caution when applicable (ie.. Tommy turning and running away vs attacking)
They've always pulled out after a certain amount of time.

reaper239
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:10 AM
My opinon on why CJ was left alone:
Simple reasoning. Risk vs Reward. They had enough people and she was in a defensible postion with an unknown quantity of ammo/weapons and showed the skill to use them.

I also think Duncan/Skittles was left alone simply as a "Ah Haa!"
Like a sick pat on the back.. a perverted "at'ta boy", thanks for letting us in.... now watch this!

i disagree on the risk reward thing. at that point, ink had at his disposal what equalled an entire city worth of zombies. in effect all of LA was turned, and the surrounding areas. i don't think ink cared enough about the "lives" of his zombie hoard that he would not be willing to through a hundred zed in there to flush her out. i don't care haow much guns and ammo you have, one person can only use two hands and can only shoot and reload so fast.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:12 AM
@ Hero. Eastern Bay is a prison. Does Scratch say she broke Latch out of Eastern Bay or does Kc leave it vague and the community made the assumption it was Eastern Bay?

She says.. and Latch says that she freed them.
it's one reason why I think Durai gave her the #2 spot.. that and everyone one else is scared to death of her.

HorrorHiro
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:12 AM
The Other Tower attempted a rescue of those who had been taken. That's what you heard in 27-3 and was described by Samantha in chapter 10.

How? Prior to this hadn't they lost a whole convoy of their best people? And how was there enough people left over from that tower to stage something like that? Who lead them?...sorry for all the questions I just really wanna know.

reaper239
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:14 AM
Go back and read the rest of my comments about their behaviors. Then listen to the podcast a few more times.
The trap was set for whomever fell for it. It was the behavior after Datu fell in that is an indicator that something was different. You may think that Risk vs Reward is too simple, but the evidence from prior actions suggests it. Not once have the infected just thrown waves and waves at anyone. They've shown caution when applicable (ie.. Tommy turning and running away vs attacking)
They've always pulled out after a certain amount of time.

i don't know about that, any time they assault a location, they are throwing wave after wave at a handful of survivors. they may show caution individually, but in a group they rush into situations

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:17 AM
i disagree on the risk reward thing. at that point, ink had at his disposal what equalled an entire city worth of zombies. in effect all of LA was turned, and the surrounding areas. i don't think ink cared enough about the "lives" of his zombie hoard that he would not be willing to through a hundred zed in there to flush her out. i don't care haow much guns and ammo you have, one person can only use two hands and can only shoot and reload so fast.


Not you too! ROFL.
Explain him running away from Saul's knife then or why they get called back after each attack? How did the Mallers not get overrun during the "War."
How'd Datu get rescued (besides KC writing that way) if they just throw waves and waves and waves at you without regard to their well being? Why would one infected.. wait TWO infected show signs of fear (Randy being the second)?
If that isn't a sense of self preservation, then I don't know what is..

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 21st, 2012, 11:19 AM
i don't know about that, any time they assault a location, they are throwing wave after wave at a handful of survivors. they may show caution individually, but in a group they rush into situations


Rushing into the fire as a group has nothing to to with not caring. If that was the case, they'd keep going until the whole arena was empty or they overran whomever.

reaper239
Mar 21st, 2012, 12:07 PM
i think that it has less to do with the individuals aversion to danger and has more to do with tactics. i agree, individually they show signs of minor self awareness, but in a group i think they tend towards a group think, led by a commander. ink is smart enough to reason, therefore we have no clue how smart he really is. let's look at the arena rescue, we know that they gather at a base at night, but the rescue wasn't at night, it was during the day when the majority of their force would've been deployed to the city. i think the commander would care less about losing one or two humans than he would taking a bullet so i think he would keep the bulk of his remaining force close to him. surprise also counts for a lot. i think neither side of the argument are one hundred percent, but i think that the answer is in between. i think the individuals are somewhat self aware and therefore seek selfpreservation, but the can be... overridden for lack of better word, when the area commander chooses.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 21st, 2012, 01:02 PM
I actually wasn't sure if I should post this here since it is kind of including thoughts I have from episode 17-3: I noticed that Skittles has a panic attack when he hears from Angel that the MRE locker at the reserve was torn apart and boxes were spread every where. Skittles says he shouldn't have eaten there because Behemoths can smell very well. He then panics and says, "I showed them where the meal was," and cries "No" several times. It sounds like he was reliving some of that guilt for being responsible for letting CJ's tower get over run.

At least he had the where with all to go back to the reserve to look for a weapon. I was wondering how he would have known the combo to the keypad but I see that you can access the MRE storage through the weapons room. Did Duncan/Skittles go with the convoy that cleaned out the weapons room?

[edit]
Also in 17-3 I think we get some evidence that it is possible Skittles is so far disheveled and ragged looking that even Kalani doesn't recognize him as once being Duncan. At first I was under the impression Kalani says Skittles couldn't have known him because he didn't feel like divulging useless information to Angel, but if you listen further, Kalani wants to take Skittles back to the tower. That seems like a risky move and had Angel and Skittles agreed, then Kalani would run the chance of having more of his passed revealed to Michael and the rest, and potentially get caught in a lie. I'm thinking Kalani genuinely didn't recognize and/or remember Skittles as being Duncan.

Cabbage Patch
Mar 21st, 2012, 04:38 PM
How? Prior to this hadn't they lost a whole convoy of their best people? And how was there enough people left over from that tower to stage something like that? Who lead them?...sorry for all the questions I just really wanna know.

Our Tower conducted its rescue mission with 3 men (one with a broken arm). That many or more could have escaped from the Other Tower. Our guys had a Humvee, a light machinegun and some rifles, plus explosives of some unknown variety. The Other Tower guys had automatic weapons and explosives as well. The only differences I noticed between the rescue attempts was that there were no vehicle noises for the Other Tower rescue attempt, and, of course, Datu, Angel and Riley were able to break out of the Arena in our Tower's attack.

nikvoodoo
Mar 22nd, 2012, 06:29 AM
Does anyone else have a tremendous fear that when we get to Chapter 28 that Kc will interrupt Michael and crew's reading of Kalani's journal by having Puck come retrieve him for some reason?

Means Kalani's backstory ends for the moment because CJ certainly can't fill in any additional information at that point.....

Cabbage Patch
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:03 AM
I REALLY want the rest of Kalani's tale and any more of the backstory on the Mallers and the Other Tower we can get. Still, it would be good getting on with the rest of the story and the sooner we do that the sooner we can find out about Angel and Burt's fates.

I suspect that the next Chapter is going in include Michael and the group at Fort Irwin getting some sort of a "quest" from the military that will send them back to LA and set up a reunion with the people they left behind.

UndeadSweeper
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:28 AM
Our Tower conducted its rescue mission with 3 men (one with a broken arm). That many or more could have escaped from the Other Tower. Our guys had a Humvee, a light machinegun and some rifles, plus explosives of some unknown variety. The Other Tower guys had automatic weapons and explosives as well. The only differences I noticed between the rescue attempts was that there were no vehicle noises for the Other Tower rescue attempt, and, of course, Datu, Angel and Riley were able to break out of the Arena in our Tower's attack.

I almost think you should have our guys walk out of the Arena in slow motion, while one of them throw a grenade behind their back and all put on dark sun-glasses as the flames engulf the background.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:41 AM
I REALLY want the rest of Kalani's tale and any more of the backstory on the Mallers and the Other Tower we can get. Still, it would be good getting on with the rest of the story and the sooner we do that the sooner we can find out about Angel and Burt's fates.

I suspect that the next Chapter is going in include Michael and the group at Fort Irwin getting some sort of a "quest" from the military that will send them back to LA and set up a reunion with the people they left behind.

Please forgive me everyone but reading this put dark thoughts into my head.

What if, and again, forgive me, but what if the soldiers at Ft. Irwin are acting under their own rule and let fly all the rules of society. Think to 28 Days later in which the soldiers decided they would use the girls for their pleasure and for "repopulation" purposes.

What if poor Riley, is currently being taken advantage of? I would hate to learn of that happening and it would be a very dark moment for the story indeed, but I fear that Michael and crew may end up having to escape from Ft. Irwin just as he did from the Colony. Great! Now I'm all freaking scared for the fate of Michael and his crew.

reaper239
Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
Our Tower conducted its rescue mission with 3 men (one with a broken arm). That many or more could have escaped from the Other Tower. Our guys had a Humvee, a light machinegun and some rifles, plus explosives of some unknown variety. The Other Tower guys had automatic weapons and explosives as well. The only differences I noticed between the rescue attempts was that there were no vehicle noises for the Other Tower rescue attempt, and, of course, Datu, Angel and Riley were able to break out of the Arena in our Tower's attack.

also, the guys from the other tower had to deal with a behemoth.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:21 AM
also, the guys from the other tower had to deal with a behemoth.

it showed up during Tower 2's rescue as well. Remember Arrow head?

I think the only difference is that Angel, Riley, Datu and Kalani got out on their own pretty much. So the group was able to beat feet without any loses.
Other than this is how KC wrote it, there was no reason why one attack didn't work better than the other. You could hear the weapons being used by T1 and they had some BIG stuff.

Zombiphobe
Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:48 AM
I really enjoyed all of the backstory. I was hoping we'd hear more about Kalani's time in the We're Alive Tower, but I guess we are going to have to wait to hear more about that.

The big question about this episode that has stuck with me, is why Duncan was spared. I've read what others have said, but I can't help but feel there's something more to it.

-HaveCrowBarWillTravel posted an idea that he was spared as "a perverted 'at'ta boy', thanks for letting us in.... now watch this!". This seems unlikely as the One with the Markings did not offer the same "consideration" to Paul.

-CabbagePatch and others mentioned that he was schizophrenic and mentally unstable, and so undesirable. But he seemed to have cracked after the incident. And even if he wasn't desirable for turning, he could still be used a Zombie chow. Haven't we heard of zombies trying to eat canned goods and even dog food? I can't see them turning down a defenseless candy treat of Skittles.

-He could have been binge drinking to cover up his scent, but he still would have been very visible.

-Perhaps he was cleaning the cat litter pans for Chinwe and smelled like feces/zombies, but again he'd still be visible.

-Is it possible he was a relative of the One with the Markings? He might have a similar pheremone/scent signature that is protecting him. I don't know.

... but I can't wait to find out.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:01 PM
I really enjoyed all of the backstory. I was hoping we'd hear more about Kalani's time in the We're Alive Tower, but I guess we are going to have to wait to hear more about that.

The big question about this episode that has stuck with me, is why Duncan was spared. I've read what others have said, but I can't help but feel there's something more to it.

-HaveCrowBarWillTravel posted an idea that he was spared as "a perverted 'at'ta boy', thanks for letting us in.... now watch this!". This seems unlikely as the One with the Markings did not offer the same "consideration" to Paul.

-CabbagePatch and others mentioned that he was schizophrenic and mentally unstable, and so undesirable. But he seemed to have cracked after the incident. And even if he wasn't desirable for turning, he could still be used a Zombie chow. Haven't we heard of zombies trying to eat canned goods and even dog food? I can't see them turning down a defenseless candy treat of Skittles.

-He could have been binge drinking to cover up his scent, but he still would have been very visible.

-Perhaps he was cleaning the cat litter pans for Chinwe and smelled like feces/zombies, but again he'd still be visible.

-Is it possible he was a relative of the One with the Markings? He might have a similar pheremone/scent signature that is protecting him. I don't know.

... but I can't wait to find out.

Pftt!
I suddenly find myself channeling Ra1th (sans the Angel crush).
Just because he killed Paul doesn't mean diddly! LOL. You forget he likes to play games and has his own agenda. He's clearly calculating.
Why didn't he kill Kalani and Riley in the Hospital?
His actions clearly caused Duncan to crack. And no, Duncan wasn't loopy before the attack. If we listen, you hear CJ say that Duncan is the one who was designing the interior defensive walls that Kalani had to help pour cement for. The dude was and is getting back to being smart.
This is why I carry a crowbar, run around smacking FNG's

Mimi
Mar 22nd, 2012, 08:03 PM
I'm too lazy to check if someone else posted this but..

I am currently relistening to the whole series and I noticed in chapter 10 part 1 of 3 at 5:06 Datu says "the eyes went green as the face of a beautiful young women came into view. Her RED HAIR was masked by layers of dirt and dry blood." In chapter 27 part 2 of 3 at 19:28 Kalani says "you have HAIR just like my wife."

The girl shot at the golf course was a red head. So this leads me to conclude that the person killed was no other than Hannah.

That's my two cents.

awkwardalex
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:12 PM
I'm too lazy to check if someone else posted this but..

I am currently relistening to the whole series and I noticed in chapter 10 part 1 of 3 at 5:06 Datu says "the eyes went green as the face of a beautiful young women came into view. Her RED HAIR was masked by layers of dirt and dry blood." In chapter 27 part 2 of 3 at 19:28 Kalani says "you have HAIR just like my wife."

The girl shot at the golf course was a red head. So this leads me to conclude that the person killed was no other than Hannah.

That's my two cents.

Yeah it's been discussed alot here and on WND. Now I'm not speaking for the WHOLE forum but I THINK the general thought is that:
a) Yes could be Hannah
b) As Nikvoodoo said, their is such a thing as hair dye.
-Which ties into Scratch's ploy in Ch. 24 "Her (Pegs) for the TWO of yours I have."
-Which would mean that the mallers dyed someone's hair red, had her shot, then Kalani (who was not there) assumes that it would be his daughter.

I kind of support b because I think that while scratch can make some mistakes, so far as we know she has kept Lizzy alive while michael thinks she did not. Keeping Hannah alive could be useful.

awkwardalex
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:16 PM
*******************************************
Now what I really came on here for:
(If this has been discussed I'm sorry)

I have been wondering...how much does each party (Michael and the others @ Irwin and Chinwe, Saul, and Victor) know about Kalani's story.
I think that Michael and co. will know everything now, but how much do the others know. Seems to me that they would only have chinwe's side, but exactly how much does she know? The lines in this chapter blurred between the two parties.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 23rd, 2012, 06:20 AM
*******************************************
Now what I really came on here for:
(If this has been discussed I'm sorry)

I have been wondering...how much does each party (Michael and the others @ Irwin and Chinwe, Saul, and Victor) know about Kalani's story.
I think that Michael and co. will know everything now, but how much do the others know. Seems to me that they would only have chinwe's side, but exactly how much does she know? The lines in this chapter blurred between the two parties.

Very true. Saul, Victor, and Chinwe only have a side of the story that Chinwe was able to relay and what Kalani had told her when he arrived at her tower. Michael and crew, on the other hand, know a whole hell of a lot more as they have Kalani's journal. They actually know the full scope of it...unless, as it has been suggested by some, that they get interrupted before they can finish his journal. I really hope not but I can totally see Puck coming in and saying, "Time to get your ass in gear. Colonel wants to see you."

From Saul and Victor's point of view, nothing has changed regarding Kalani. Chinwe pretty much backed up the story he gave when he arrived at Michael's tower. However, Saul and Victor know got to hear more about CJ's run in with Pinstripes. Just think of it like this; Chinwe can't know what happened to Kalani when he was away, so that part belongs to Michaels crew, and Kalani couldn't write about the fate of Chinwe because he wasn't with her, so that part belongs to Saul and Victor. Hope that wasn't confusing! ^w^

awkwardalex
Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:20 AM
Very true. Saul, Victor, and Chinwe only have a side of the story that Chinwe was able to relay and what Kalani had told her when he arrived at her tower. Michael and crew, on the other hand, know a whole hell of a lot more as they have Kalani's journal. They actually know the full scope of it...unless, as it has been suggested by some, that they get interrupted before they can finish his journal. I really hope not but I can totally see Puck coming in and saying, "Time to get your ass in gear. Colonel wants to see you."

From Saul and Victor's point of view, nothing has changed regarding Kalani. Chinwe pretty much backed up the story he gave when he arrived at Michael's tower. However, Saul and Victor know got to hear more about CJ's run in with Pinstripes. Just think of it like this; Chinwe can't know what happened to Kalani when he was away, so that part belongs to Michaels crew, and Kalani couldn't write about the fate of Chinwe because he wasn't with her, so that part belongs to Saul and Victor. Hope that wasn't confusing! ^w^

Nope I got it! Thanks!

Willy Beamen
Mar 26th, 2012, 12:41 PM
Please forgive me everyone but reading this put dark thoughts into my head.

What if, and again, forgive me, but what if the soldiers at Ft. Irwin are acting under their own rule and let fly all the rules of society. Think to 28 Days later in which the soldiers decided they would use the girls for their pleasure and for "repopulation" purposes.

What if poor Riley, is currently being taken advantage of? I would hate to learn of that happening and it would be a very dark moment for the story indeed, but I fear that Michael and crew may end up having to escape from Ft. Irwin just as he did from the Colony. Great! Now I'm all freaking scared for the fate of Michael and his crew.

I think you bring up a great point, we kinda forgot about Riley's whole drinking episode...what the hell was she doing? I agree when Michael rejects the idea that she was trying to drink herself to death, but what does that leave us? We know about her habits, but never before has she allowed herself to get so wrecked...she could always, you know, function. I look forward to hearing about Riley's perspective when we get to see her again.
Hopefully this woun't be some sort of 28 days later thing. That'd be horrible.

reaper239
Mar 26th, 2012, 12:52 PM
she was drinking away a broken heart. they never really admitted it to each other, but i think angel and riley were sweet on each other.

Grognaurd
Mar 26th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Meh, I do not think she had enough booze to drink her self stupored. While others packed the chopper she was getting the hospital chopter (she does have a small bottle or flask I think) and then part of the Lizzy Mission.)

We know that when Kelly and Michael go looking for her, Kelly says something like Riley may not have been the only one to make a path. My guess is one of the smarter zombies came across her that night. He did not harm her and only attacked when Michael tried to take her away.

Check my zombie exposure / sleep thread if you are interested

Willy Beamen
Mar 26th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Angel for sure, but Riley kept her feelings guarded and complicated at best. That must have been a hell of a night for her. Can't imagine sitting in the dark, in a field of dead corn, stone cold drunk, during the zombie apocolypse. She's got balls.
I still think there was someone else with her; someone from the unexplored farm house perhaps? Someone who gave her the booze. I just hope Riley is ok enough to tell us more about that night.

Cabbage Patch
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:45 PM
I've been mulling over the rescue attempt at the Arena by the survivors from the Other Tower. Here are some questions that have occured to me:

1. We know that the survivors of the Other Tower had to run for their lives, unarmed and without supplies. Granted that they had pre-designated rally points with caches of arms and supplies. But how did a group of disorganized survivors get organized to launch the rescue attempt? Who organized the rescue attempt?

2. Who were they trying to rescue? We know from Kalani's account that he was being held with someone named Martin, whose origins we never discover, but who had apparently been at the Arena for some time. The next prisoner to show up was Samantha, who was grabbed from the rescue party. Did the group from the Other Tower attack the Arena to rescue Kalani, or were they hoping to find other survivors there? For instance CJ, or Shaun, or Hope?

3. Did a group from the Other Tower actually go to the Water Works, and if so were they part of the rescue attempt? If they were part of the rescue attempt did they go back to the Water Works again afterwards?

4. What happened to the people from the rescue party? Were they all killed outright, or were survivors sent straight in to the center of the Arena? If none of them ended up in the room with Samantha then how did she learn so much about how the zombies treat their prisoners? It seems like the only other case she would have seen is Martin's. And if the other survivors were put in with her and Kalani, and they're all gone now, where did she get the idea that prisoners were taken away in the order in which they were captured?

Grognaurd
Mar 26th, 2012, 05:50 PM
CP

I have also wondered about one. To quote Hicks from Aliens, "maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events, but we just got our asses kicked. Who has the charisma to turn the situation around?

As for two, no clue. Which makes one even harder. Risk all on the off chance there is someone to rescue.

This makes me believe they are more closely linked to the outbreak than has been revealed.

Martin or Marvin whatever may have been with the convoy that got hit. If he was one of the best and a gung-ho Rambo type, it would make his broken state even more poignant.

Three, my guess is they went and were gone at the time of the breach. Instead of fortifying the tower, they may never have seen CJ and retreated to the water works. the zombies will not bottle up all the worlds oxygen so water is the next most precious.

Putting together seasons one and three my guess is Samantha saw them butchered below. The guy there before Kalani hinted there was an order, but I have to relisten.

zombeh-kitteh
Mar 27th, 2012, 12:40 AM
I don't know if anyone else has said this or not, but I have some observations/things bugging me, ect.

1. Kalani is probably 1/2 of the thief/shooter. I believe the other half of the plan that led to "The War" is Bill. Here's what I think: Kalani probably heard from someone or by observation that Bill was alienated/suspicious of the other people in the Tower. Who's to say that Kalani didn't use that fact to his advantage? He may have sought Bill out and enticed him with the idea that if they let the Mallers infiltrate, they would not only be spared but be part of the inner circle, or any number of pretty things that made Bill acquiesce. Burt points out during the aftermath of the war that Bill has the key to Datu's lockbox, which contained the keys to Burt's armory and to Riley's shop, amongst others. This leads them to disovering that all the stolen guns, ammo, and supplies were safe in the auxilary elevator. This booty was probably going to be the peace offering that Kalani and Bill were going to give to the Mallers once they had secured the Tower. There's no reason not to assume that Kalani probably had access to this trove and borrowed a gun from the stash and was the one who opened fire on the Mallers, inciting their attack. Scratch more than likely ordered Kalani to open fire in the event that Michael refused them entry. (I know others have said similar, I'm just agreeing with them)

2. I learned once that in a story, all the elements are important, and that usually if people, places, or things are specifically mentioned, that they play a role in the story. To date, we still have no idea about the explosion we heard in Chapter 1-1, which is more than likely the advent of the infection. Burt mentions Raydon Labs; Bill Roberts aka Ink was supposed to be transferred to a mental health facility. I believe that Bill Roberts, Ink, whatever you want to call him may be Patient Zero in this particular city, because we know that the outbreak was occuring in other cities at about the same time as the outbreak in LA. Being Patient Zero may have some kind of benefit for Ink, perhaps this is the reason he seems to hold sway over the horde.

This still does not answer the question of Raydon Labs and how it's involved in the story. Could it be that this unknown corporation wanted to experiment and what better way to experiment on human beings is on those who have been convicted of crimes? Instead of being transferred to "a mental health facility" he was transferred to Raydon Labs instead? It seems that This Bill Roberts was a particularly terrifying figure, a huge guy covered in tattoos and oh by the way he's a serial killer...he seems to be the perfect candidate to be Patient Zero.

Also, Raydon Labs seems to be a viable candidate to be the initial source of the infection; we weren't told where it is...maybe around Inglewood (Ground Zero)?

3. Eastern Bay: All male prison. Victor tells us so when Saul confronts Chinwe. So...where did the other female "officers" (for a lack of a better term) come from in the Mallers' group? It doesn't seem likely that they would allow "slaves" to drive the big rigs around to the Arena...so who are they and where did they come from? Minor point, but still.

4. Duncan/Skittles: Ink probably just let him live for kicks, as we've seen he delights in torture and mass murder. He more than likely left Chinwe alive for the same reason.

5. Hannah: I never once thought of the Mallers using hair dye to cover up her hair...I just assumed it was Hannah. Here's my theory however on why it was indeed her though: Kalani hadn't contacted them in awhile; Scratch got impatient, which is why she sent Pippin to remind Kalani as to why he was there, and to see if Pegs was there. Two birds, one stone. Scratch also has no qualms as to killing her own men, so I don't think she would have had too much of a problem executing Hannah to teach Kalani a lesson. I don't think she was including Hannah in her "the two of yours I have;" because Kalani was no longer important to her plan. Not hearing from Pippin also probably didn't help improve her mood any, and she tells Angel over the radio herself that the only thing she wants from them is Pegs.

6. "the two of yours I have." Pregnant Lizzy. I think I've said this before in another thread, but Scratch's demeanor changes slightly when she watches Lizzy puke in the furniture store. He voice gets thoughtful (or at least softer) when she says "You're sick..." to Lizzy. She also tells Tardust not to touch her, even though a minute before she had said that she didn't care if he "tore her up..."


Now to the chapter proper:
Fascinating. I loved how we find out the aftermath of the attack on Chinwe's tower and Kalani's escape and capture. Also I find it interesting that out of all the people in Chinwe's tower it was Skittles and Samantha (two of the only people Kalani talked to during his stay) that ended up being so vital to the story. I have a feeling that Skittles may have had something to do with the attempted rescue of Samantha, since he tells Chinwe that he was going to find everybody...and he was still in the vicinity when Riley, Angel, and Datu find him.

Chinwe seems to be highly intelligent, but at the same time very autonomous. She's only looking out for number 1 despite the fact that there was a whole bunch of people relying on her. Sean seems to have been the second-in-command for her tower, and he seems to be much more caring or at least compassionate than Chinwe. After all, we know from what we've heard from Hope and Victor that Sean was a good guy...I mean he helped Hope when it would have been so much easier to leave her to die.


It's too bad that Victor and Saul are only getting part of Kalani's story, but they are getting much more of an insight into the Mallers and Ink than the Ft. Irwin group, albeit that knowledge of Ink and the Mallers are pretty much null and void for them at the moment (it doesn't matter so much anymore now that they are over 100 miles away).

As always, I'm loving this story and can't wait till next Monday......

clem131
Mar 27th, 2012, 01:07 AM
zombeh-kitteh: about your first point, Bill being so paranoid about his tower I don't see him doing anything to jeopardize it.

I don't think this has been discussed, but one thing that comes out of this chapter is: Tanya did not read Kalani's journal, obviously. So, what was she trying to say to Michael before being (conveniently) knocked off (an popping up just fine later)? It could have been simply "Did you read all of the journals? Because I can't find Kalani's", but since she was talking about performing some zombie research before, it might be something else she figured out by reading all journals and putting all the pieces together. Let's hope she says what it is already, after days spent doing nothing in Irwin.

zombeh-kitteh
Mar 27th, 2012, 04:08 AM
zombeh-kitteh: about your first point, Bill being so paranoid about his tower I don't see him doing anything to jeopardize it.

I don't think this has been discussed, but one thing that comes out of this chapter is: Tanya did not read Kalani's journal, obviously. So, what was she trying to say to Michael before being (conveniently) knocked off (an popping up just fine later)? It could have been simply "Did you read all of the journals? Because I can't find Kalani's", but since she was talking about performing some zombie research before, it might be something else she figured out by reading all journals and putting all the pieces together. Let's hope she says what it is already, after days spent doing nothing in Irwin.


Yeah, I agree that it's kind of a stretch, but when you consider his final words of "I'm sorry," it could be plausible...although it may be more plausible to imagine that he was just sorry for stealing and hiding the supplies. But it's a thought, and anything is possible...

I also think that what Tanya discovered in the journals has to do with the zombies...that makes me wonder what the Ft. Irwin people know about the zombies, or if they have encountered more than the normal biter. Tanya says that down south they never encountered the special types of zombies (but this could just be since as a doctor, Tanya never left the colony until the mass exodus). However, if they had encountered special zombies, Marcus may have been kept under wraps to keep panic from spreading; but Victor also doesn't seem to have knowledge of the special types as he freaks out when he sees the Behemoth for the first time.

So my thought is that the reason the Colony had no knowledge of the special types was because they were too far away from Ground Zero (and or the Hospital where Pinstripes was conducting experiments, presumably that's where the "Little Ones" originated).

Again, though...just a thought.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 27th, 2012, 06:11 AM
I'm very certain they were all wiped out, unless we later learn Skuncan was part of that rescue attempt. But I imagine Samantha could have learned a bit from Martin, who seemed to know quite a bit....

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 27th, 2012, 01:10 PM
Nah, Duncan wasn't part of that crew. He was there with CJ 3 hours plus after the attack. He ran off solo.

Samantha does say that those guys were with her when she got jumped and taken. They weren't just going to let her die, so they followed in without a plan. Mr. Behemoth aka Arrow head shows up and decimates the entire crew.

I'm going to assume that Martin could have been with one of the convoys T1 lost and he saw the rest of his team get "Played" with. He sounded too young to be from the prison.. the again he could have been a normal survivor. Anyway, Sam saw him die and Datu saw her die. Kalani in his stupor was spared all of the gory stuff.

One observation from the timeline.. the Arena had to be set up early as hell! I'm talking within 2 or 3 days of the initial outbreak.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 27th, 2012, 01:39 PM
One observation from the timeline.. the Arena had to be set up early as hell! I'm talking within 2 or 3 days of the initial outbreak.

What leads you to believe that?

7oddisdead
Mar 27th, 2012, 10:59 PM
have wondered/ thought about the timeline of the arena as well


its difficult to judge..but just the amount of bodies it would take to create the tunnel/path/traps they set up within would require quite a number of bodies to make happen..just speculation here, but we could possibly tie the first time bodies disappear from outside the tower to when the arena was started. And if we take take arena as the equivelant of an ants nest...then the bodies within are all unturned dead...while the bodies outside are downed zoms..meaning its likely the interior of the nest was set up prior to that..or just before the undead were cleaned up...make sense?


*edit* and on a semi related note...i found this interesting. Parts of it are on topic
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/May03/ArmyAntBrady.bpf.html

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 28th, 2012, 05:40 AM
have wondered/ thought about the timeline of the arena as well


its difficult to judge..but just the amount of bodies it would take to create the tunnel/path/traps they set up within would require quite a number of bodies to make happen..just speculation here, but we could possibly tie the first time bodies disappear from outside the tower to when the arena was started. And if we take take arena as the equivelant of an ants nest...then the bodies within are all unturned dead...while the bodies outside are downed zoms..meaning its likely the interior of the nest was set up prior to that..or just before the undead were cleaned up...make sense?


*edit* and on a semi related note...i found this interesting. Parts of it are on topic
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/May03/ArmyAntBrady.bpf.html

It is an interesting point you bring up. I think it would be safe to assume the bodies inside are made up of the unturned, otherwise Riley and Angel would have risked getting infected when all those body fluids were seeping into their pores and even got in Riley's eyes. I agree that within the first couple of days of the outbreak zombies must have started collecting there.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Mar 28th, 2012, 05:41 AM
What leads you to believe that?


Look at the timeline Hero. Lets assume that the other convoys weren't just decimated, they were taken. What day was it when when Burt, Saul and Blondie found the last convoy? Remember, there were no bodies, just the vehicles.

Remember Angel asking about the bodies they buried (lncluding his girlfriend)? What day was this? The wanted to know where the bodies were taken. so what day was that.. around day 4??

By the time Datu was captured there had already been a good number of "fun" to be had in the center. The infected already had a system worked out with traps and everything. There was a huge amount of "food" Angel and Riley had to crawl through, while that doesn't really mean anything other than they could have killed a ton of people in a short time. I'd rather think that they'd been stocking up for a good while.

I'm rambling here, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm shooting at.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 28th, 2012, 05:59 AM
Look at the timeline Hero. Lets assume that the other convoys weren't just decimated, they were taken. What day was it when when Burt, Saul and Blondie found the last convoy? Remember, there were no bodies, just the vehicles.

Remember Angel asking about the bodies they buried (lncluding his girlfriend)? What day was this? The wanted to know where the bodies were taken. so what day was that.. around day 4??

By the time Datu was captured there had already been a good number of "fun" to be had in the center. The infected already had a system worked out with traps and everything. There was a huge amount of "food" Angel and Riley had to crawl through, while that doesn't really mean anything other than they could have killed a ton of people in a short time. I'd rather think that they'd been stocking up for a good while.

I'm rambling here, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm shooting at.

Yeah, I agree that the Arena was already being established as a zombie nest early in the story, like around the 3rd or 4th day, but I don't agree that you can use the corpse retrieval from the timeline as a basis for this. Cindy and the other bodies were not picked up until sometime late in June, almost two months after it started, on the day the Water Pumping Station and Locator Retrieval Mission were started.

But I do believe that within a few days of the outbreak the zeds started acting with a hive mentality. We already see evidence of this in the first episode. The first zeds Michael spots are walking in a small group. There are no lone wolves, but rather groups and hordes. The instant they separate one from the pack, in the tower lobby, it acts with intelligence and displays some notion of self preservation, i.e. it hides behind a desk. The zombie hiding occurs on May 10th, two days after the outbreak, so I think that is a good reason it is safe to imagine the Arena was established early on. Zeds were already working in groups and probably established a hive by that point.

Adventureless_Hero
Mar 28th, 2012, 01:55 PM
I'm having trouble determining the convoys of CJ's that disappeared. When she discusses it with Sean she says they lost 3 people in one convoy, but then later Samantha discusses a convoy incident involving 15 of their best. Any idea which took place first? I'm thinking the large convoy of 15 got hit first, and then the one with 3 people got hit the same day Kalani arrived and that is how he ended up being "Mr. Thirty-One".

Zombiphobe
Mar 28th, 2012, 03:01 PM
That makes sense to me. Didn't Sean comment that after the big convoy loss, CJ would't let large groups go out together?

I imagine they had other convoys hit earlier on as well, which did a part to whittle down their numbers.

Pandora
Apr 14th, 2012, 01:26 PM
I wish Martin wasnt gone...he just had this awesome voice I really enjoy hearing! Funny too!

AutumnBlonde
Jul 28th, 2014, 10:33 AM
I apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm a little late to the party, being 13+ pages behind. Anyway ... WHY, if Duncan/Skittles is so frightened of the zombies, did he let Pinstripes and the hoard, into the tower? Surely he could see that they were zombies? Unless, like those at Michael's tower, Skittles was fooled by Pinstripes ability to speak and slightly function as a human. Was an explanation ever given?

Kc
Jul 28th, 2014, 10:51 AM
I apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm a little late to the party, being 13+ pages behind. Anyway ... WHY, if Duncan/Skittles is so frightened of the zombies, did he let Pinstripes and the hoard, into the tower? Surely he could see that they were zombies? Unless, like those at Michael's tower, Skittles was fooled by Pinstripes ability to speak and slightly function as a human. Was an explanation ever given?

It's not explicitly answered, but the method was very similar to what Pinstripes did at Michael's tower. Skittles was fooled as well.

AutumnBlonde
Jul 28th, 2014, 12:59 PM
It's not explicitly answered, but the method was very similar to what Pinstripes did at Michael's tower. Skittles was fooled as well.

Thank you for responding. That's what I was thinking, but I thought maybe I'd somehow missed out on a small detail.

Pandora
Jul 28th, 2014, 06:15 PM
I apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm a little late to the party, being 13+ pages behind. Anyway ... WHY, if Duncan/Skittles is so frightened of the zombies, did he let Pinstripes and thethe hoard, into the tower? Surely he could see that they were zombies? Unles



like those at Michael's towSkittles was fooled by Pinstripes ability to speak and slightly function as a human. Was an explanation ever given?

Good LA wD...never had such a goofy time yry

Billie34
Jul 14th, 2022, 01:56 AM
This story is really interesting and this episode made me confused. I don't know what will happen next, phoodle (https://phoodle.io/) really curious about the next chapter.