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View Full Version : Chapter 26- "Who Overcomes" Part 1



nikvoodoo
Jan 30th, 2012, 08:06 AM
'Tis a happy Monday! For WA is back and better than ever.

Post your thoughts here on 26-1!

nikvoodoo
Jan 30th, 2012, 10:15 AM
I haven't even listened yet....but.....I have two words.....

MR. WHISKERS!!!!!!

EVABLACKX
Jan 30th, 2012, 10:26 AM
BURT WHERE ARE YOU!!!! :mad:
Pretty straight forward episode. Good length but I want more!!!!!

Adventureless_Hero
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:00 AM
That was an extremely satisfying episode. I'm very pleased to see that things seem okay at Ft. Irwin. Who would have guessed the stow-away zombie theory would prove to be right? The absence of helicopter skids made us all doubt. Our doubts are traitors!

So let me just say that I'm happy to learn of one of Tower survivor: BURT! (I was going to say Mr. Whiskers but I feel that joke will get played out real quick). Seriously, I thought the old man was pretty screwed but when I heard Saul's description of the condition of the zip-line I figured it was a very real possibility that he's not too beat up. He had to be standing on two feet when he pulled up the zip line through his harness then dropped it to the ground to allow it to coil up.

Perhaps those corpses that Victor found (one being eaten by rats) was one of Burt's victim's as he came down the zip-line? Maybe one of them wounded Burt and that is how Scratch was able to find him at the close of Season 2! This episode makes me very confident that Burt and Angel are now in the custody of the Mallers.

Did Victor kick Mr. Whiskers?! Fucker.

So why was that Maller carrying all those I.D.'s? I guess those were the trophies of his captured slaves. Too bad Saul didn't look them over. Victor wouldn't have recognized Lizzie's ID. Wait? Could that corpse have been Tardust? Maybe...but I doubt it.

So much too comment on! That add for Rex, Zombie Killer sounds gnarly! Can't wait for more. I'll cut it short here since I'm likely to ramble forever. Awesome show, Great job!!!!

[EDIT]
I almost forgot, somebody get Kelly laid!

reaper239
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:02 AM
RANDOM ZOMBIE SPAWN FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

for some reason my ipod only downloaded it to 7:50. i almost had a coronary. so i spent like 20 minutes scouring the internets to find a place to listen to it, then i remembered that the website proper has a listen section. crack obtained.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:39 AM
Mister Frigg'n Whiskers! F'n cats and their 9 lives! LOL. All I'm going to say is that Kelly keeps stealing the show. 2 great lines!
"oh, now we can get laid." Then she tops that off with "So, it not just you being as asshole, it's your training." ROFL!!

Adventureless_Hero
Jan 30th, 2012, 12:15 PM
I think the evidence that Angel and Burt are in the hands of the Mallers is very strong now, which makes me wonder, what reasons could Scratch have for keeping them? Do you think she will offer them another chance to join thier ranks (something I doubt Burt would ever do) or do you think perhaps there may be an upcoming torture scene? Scratch could hurt Angel further or Lizzie in exchange for information. She may learn that Michael and the rest fled to Ft. Irwin!

Ft. Irwin vs. The Colony?! So much to stew over!

USMC-CPL-Zombiekiller
Jan 30th, 2012, 12:15 PM
Loved the episode but I starting to get the feeling that KC is slowly building us up to something huge. He keeps giving us just enough to keep the storyline moving but not enough to really get a fix on it.

My only questions are, like some many other peoples questions.

1. Is Burt alive.
2. Will Saul and Vic find Liz and the Mallers
3. Will Michael and the others come back to LA

Bray
Jan 30th, 2012, 12:42 PM
Another cracking episode, I hope the Ft Irwin residents don't turn out like the colony. If they need to be removed from the story because it's not very interesting if they are just chilling out perfectly safe, then please let there be some epic battle where the zombies lay siege to Ft Irwin and eventually over run it.

Still don't think Angel is alive though, I just can't see how he could be, he was on top of a building as it went down!

Pickle72
Jan 30th, 2012, 01:11 PM
Didn't they fly over a whole mass of zombies as they left the field. I got a feeling I know where they are going!

reaper239
Jan 30th, 2012, 01:58 PM
they seem to be genuine military, and if there is one thing i kow about military:there is ordre and procedure. everyone who was, is, or was connected to he military (ie civilian workforce) would most...

Grognaurd
Jan 30th, 2012, 02:11 PM
I think our crew got off pretty damn easy. I would one-up Scratch's line of "Back up Bitch"

With: On the Ground NOW!

Hearts and minds? Not in THIS man's apocolypse

AdrianHD
Jan 30th, 2012, 02:18 PM
Yes. Yes. Yes.

I'm so excited now. I know the Colony was a very polarizing episode, I personally loved it. I like getting our characters out of their comfort zone and into a new place. New voices too! So good.

Also, I like how the sponsor was a series about how animals survive in a zombie apocalypse, and this is the episode we learn that Mr. Whiskers is the death-defying cat.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jan 30th, 2012, 02:31 PM
As far as Burt being alive, it's still unconfirmed and despite the condition of the zip-line it could have been Angel or whomever it was that responsible for all the tracks Saul and Victor found, although it could have been the Mallers with Burt and/or Angel + anything and anyone else they found.

In regards to the base, I was actually a little wary when they came into contact with the (presumed) soldiers. After their experience with the Mallers and the Colony, I would have thought majority of them would have been less willing to trust strangers right off the bat, regardless of the fact they were soldiers. Also when Kelly was mentioning that they/she might finally be able to get laid, I was thinking that she should be careful what she's asking for since this could be like the situation in "28 Days Later," (stop here if you don't want spoilers to the movie) in which the soldiers take them in and eventually intend to kill the men and rape the women. But I guess for now at least Michael and Company seem to be in the clear, for a few episodes anyway. I suspect that Fort Irwin won't last too long or at least fall before season 4 and the series is completed.

Things we can take away from the episode:

1. Burt, Angel and/or someone from the Tower could still be alive.
2. The above mentioned could be in the hands of the Mallers or on the road to find the others.
3. Michael and Company arrived at Fort Irwin and appear to be relatively safe, at least from the infected.
4. Mr. Whiskers is alive and appears to have been doing well on his own.
5. Soldiers appear to be the real deal, but intentions and motives are to be determined.
6. Fort Irwin is either a safe haven or another version of the Colony. (In terms of corruption and danger)

HardKor
Jan 30th, 2012, 02:37 PM
Ahh...It feels so great to have my We're Alive fix.
What to say about this one: We've got the return of Mr. Whiskers and Ft. Irwin seems friendly (At least on the surface) and Kelly wants to get laid....I love it all!

A couple of thoughts on somethings people have said so far:


So why was that Maller carrying all those I.D.'s? I guess those were the trophies of his captured slaves. Too bad Saul didn't look them over. Victor wouldn't have recognized Lizzie's ID. Wait? Could that corpse have been Tardust? Maybe...but I doubt it.

I remember when Pippin first showed up at the Tower there was some talk about he may have had forged ID's. Maybe this is more evidence for forgeries? Or maybe the IDs are just trophies. If so at least it's a little better than the scavengers at the colony with their finger bones etc...


I think the evidence that Angel and Burt are in the hands of the Mallers is very strong now, which makes me wonder, what reasons could Scratch
have for keeping them? Do you think she will offer them another chance to join thier ranks (something I doubt Burt would ever do) or do you think perhaps there may be an upcoming torture scene? Scratch could hurt Angel further or Lizzie in exchange for information. She may learn that Michael and the rest fled to Ft. Irwin!!

Well there is some evidence that Scratch and Angel knew each other before the outbreak, somehow. I hope that we'll get to hear more about that soon.


On a final note...I'm wary of the return on Mr. Whiskers. I'm a cat person, but that cat brings chaos in it wake...

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=832&d=1310419802

awkwardalex
Jan 30th, 2012, 02:38 PM
Point in case that dogs rule! Hope did not go back for Mr. Whiskers, only Lady. Dogs FTW.

BTW did anyone notice that Michael said in this episode that he had an I.D. but in a previous (last season) he told Kelly he doesn't even carry around his dog tags let alone an I.D. @_@ hmmmm.

And yes someone get Kelly laid.

Kc
Jan 30th, 2012, 03:12 PM
BTW did anyone notice that Michael said in this episode that he had an I.D. but in a previous (last season) he told Kelly he doesn't even carry around his dog tags let alone an I.D. @_@ hmmmm.

Michael knew he was going to Fort Irwin ahead of time, and the only piece of proof he had to being in the Army.

Litmaster
Jan 30th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Damn, I feel like we need a diagram or something with respect to this zip-line issue (and it's with visually complicated elements like this that audio drama really shows it's limitations). Correct me, anyone, if this hypothesis seems wrong:

Burt was about 5/6th of the way down the zip line when it snapped, the break in the line coming somewhere between him and the Tower he was sliding from. When the line snapped, he fell and screamed, but his Marine training and quick-thinking led him to wrench the hand brake on the now-slack line, causing him to swing briefly and crash into the side of the building he was sliding to. The chopper assumed he fell straight to the ground, but if they had just looked over the edge (barring any smoke) they might have seen an unconscious Burt still hanging off the side of the building, where the impact of the swinging collision with the building had put him out cold. The chopper leaves, then Burt wakes up some time later hanging off the side of the building. He swings outward and (ala Bruce Willis from Die Hard) uses momentum to smash his way through one of the windows of the building, where he collapses into one of the empty offices. He is then bum-rushed by some Mallers, who capture him and take him prisoner.

Not sure if all of this totally jives with the details, but its the best I can come up with right now.

As for Angel, I still think the only way he got down alive was via the loose bit of zip-line still attached to the Tower, which he used to rappel down just before the building-top caved in. But that would mean both Burt and Angel saved themselves through using opposite ends of a snapped zip-line. Far-fetched???

7oddisdead
Jan 30th, 2012, 04:41 PM
Damn, I feel like we need a diagram or something with respect to this zip-line issue (and it's with visually complicated elements like this that audio drama really shows it's limitations). Correct me, anyone, if this hypothesis seems wrong:

Burt was about 5/6th of the way down the zip line when it snapped, the break in the line coming somewhere between him and the Tower he was sliding from. When the line snapped, he fell and screamed, but his Marine training and quick-thinking led him to wrench the hand brake on the now-slack line, causing him to swing briefly and crash into the side of the building he was sliding to. The chopper assumed he fell straight to the ground, but if they had just looked over the edge (barring any smoke) they might have seen an unconscious Burt still hanging off the side of the building, where the impact of the swinging collision with the building had put him out cold. The chopper leaves, then Burt wakes up some time later hanging off the side of the building. He swings outward and (ala Bruce Willis from Die Hard) uses momentum to smash his way through one of the windows of the building, where he collapses into one of the empty offices. He is then bum-rushed by some Mallers, who capture him and take him prisoner.

Not sure if all of this totally jives with the details, but its the best I can come up with right now.

As for Angel, I still think the only way he got down alive was via the loose bit of zip-line still attached to the Tower, which he used to rappel down just before the building-top caved in. But that would mean both Burt and Angel saved themselves through using opposite ends of a snapped zip-line. Far-fetched???

excellent theory...and sounds pretty solid, minus one thing...
After the fall, Michael pulled the rope up...with no Burt attached. So while he could have landed on a balcony/through a window...he did not have any "dangle-time". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

PS: this episode was awesome...this is the show I came to love at its best....:)

Ra1th
Jan 30th, 2012, 04:58 PM
Great episode. My only problem, was with how moronic Pegs and Kelly were acting when they were being detained by the military force at Irwin. They were both at the colony, both of them should know better than to be so giddy at the sight of another group of survivors. The ex Tower has had full scale conflicts with every major group of other survivors they'd encountered so far in the post apocalyptic world. And although this group seems like it's going to turn out to be a group of good people, at the initial confrontation, there was obvious tension if not hostility between Michael and Puck. Maybe I'm just over analyzing, but it seemed out of character for those two, especially considering how hardened both Pegs and Kelly have become since the beginning.

As for it not being possible that Angel escaped from the crumbling tower, if Burt can survive what initially seemed to be a 10 story fall, then Angel has a damn good shot of surviving a crumbling building. As for how he did it, wait and see, I'm sure Kc'll tell you.

cupcakezombie
Jan 30th, 2012, 05:32 PM
The tyre tracks in the settled dusk seems the confirm the thought that the Mallers section from the end of chapter 24 was in fact later then the start of chapter 25.

While it is silly that Kelly and Pegs were giggling when they met the other survivors at Fort Irwin, remember that the last 1 or 2 days (plus the preeceeding weeks) for them has been really intense. They have been pinning their hopes on there being people when they got to the fort, and there are. Also, I am assuming that their first thought is really that they don't have to think for a while and that might be 'safe' here at the army base. I am not sure how I would react in a situation the same, but aside from Kelly's entry to the tower, both are quite friendly and based on what they have seen from our army boys might be expecting something similar with these guys.

Or shock has finally turned them crazy.

Pikepaw
Jan 30th, 2012, 06:13 PM
First off, loved the ad, will check out that Rex the zombie killer. Gorilla with a baseball bat! Heck Yes!

Kelly's line about getting laid makes me think that our dear lovable Britt is writing part of the script, that and the line in 25-2 where she makes the sexual orientation joke about Riley. Or Britt is psychic/has a really good read on Kelly. Not ruling that out.

I take hope from the fact that the military guys were BSing around. If they are not rushing, it means the base is relatively safe and secure. If they are having to go through the chain of command, it means there is still an orderly chain of command and probably at least a fair number of troops. My initial impression is that these guys are legit. Puck is an ass, but he is being reasonably cautious. These people just landed here out of no where, he is trained not to trust them. I wouldn't have straight up believed Micheal's story either and if the Mallers still have fake IDs (what I think ID guy corpse hinted at), then Micheal could get one. It is in Fort Irwin's best interest to be wary.

There was a lot of hope for me in this episode. As soon as Saul and Victor found the zip line was unusually placed, I believed this was evidence for Burt surviving and being relatively okay. I was waiting for them to find a corpse and notice a .50 caliber action express bullet hole in it. Hoping for Saul to kind of grin and remark, "Burt and his damn hand cannon"
As for Mr Whiskers, I thought that traitor was dead. But no not only has the cat been living outside the tower and still alive but is THRIVING! Saul mentioned that "zombie kitty" was fatter, living off the rats that could hide from zombies easily.

While I suspect that Mr Whiskers is the rat (I believe cats can use guns), I know that he is a foreshadowing of bad things. First appearance he causes a whole lot of tension and nearly gets Pegs shot. Right after his second appearance, on guard duty with Pegs, Kelly falls asleep on guard duty and the Mallers show up. Third appearance is during the war, where Pegs running after him nearly gets her and Micheal killed. Am I saying that Mr Whiskers tried to get Pegs killed? Am I saying that he may have drugged Kelly to allow Scratch and Latch time to scope out the lobby? Am I saying that he knew where the pipe bomb would be and tried to lure Pegs and thus Michael into its radius? Am I saying he may have had something to do with Burt's possible capture? Am I saying that he is planning more and has it in for Victor and Saul?

That is exactly what I am saying

7oddisdead
Jan 30th, 2012, 06:21 PM
While I'm sure I'm making something of nothing. We have now had two characters named puck....that is all

nikvoodoo
Jan 30th, 2012, 06:30 PM
It's really early to jump in on this theory/prediction but that's sorta my thing....

I was just talking it over with Beez and I'm forumlating the following theory: Mallers/Colony team up vs. Ft. Irwin/Tower alliance. There will have to be some semblence of a conflict between Irwin and Tower involving returning to LA (after Saul and Victor get a message to them somehow) but Michael, crew and some Irwin-ites will go back to LA-LA land to get Saul, Victor, Lizzy, Angel and Burt back.

Some aspects of these theories have been around for a while, but now that we know for a fact that there is a military presence at Irwin......Theory On!

Litmaster
Jan 30th, 2012, 06:31 PM
excellent theory...and sounds pretty solid, minus one thing...
After the fall, Michael pulled the rope up...with no Burt attached. So while he could have landed on a balcony/through a window...he did not have any "dangle-time". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Yeah, you're right, 7oddisdead. I went back and listened to the end of 24 and Michael did narrate that, though it was smoky he saw the taught line go loose, heard Burt fall, then pulled up the 10 yards of zip line still attached to his side before getting to the frayed end. He apparently couldn't see Burt falling because of the smoke. But a few things about this scenario don't make sense to me:

1. Saul later found the end of the line that Michael had pulled up hanging straight down from the building and onto the ground, which would have to mean that the building the chopper took off from is no higher than 10 yards from the ground (given the 10 yards of line was tangled on the ground at the foot of the building and not still hanging loose). So there goes my 'Dangling Burt' theory, unless...

2. THE DANGLING BURT THEORY, pt. 2: Unless Burt did the hand brake Tarzan swing maneuver on the OTHER end of the snapped line, which would mean it snapped between him and the building he was swinging TO, and he swung and hit the tower itself. But there are a couple of problems with this theory, also:

---If Burt didn't die, why didn't he call out after he fell?
---If he was unconscious and hanging from the tower, or too hurt to call out how could he survive the tower collapse?
---And if he got to the ground before the collapse and scuttled away, how did he manage to avoid getting munched by Eaters?

3. If Michael pulled up the 10 yards on line on his end, then that left how much hanging on the Tower side? It's relevant, given that would be Angel's only ticket to reach the ground, and he would need to have enough line to reach the bottom before the tower went down. Or is it possible that Angel rappelled down, found an unconscious Burt lying nearby at the bottom, then helped drag him far enough from the tower before getting nabbed by Mallers and the tower collapsing?


Hmmmm... the more I think about all this, the more I'm thinking it likely that they're both dead.

Hell, maybe Burt just fell on Mr. Whiskers...


p.s. Oh, but let's not forget that Shane is still available as a 'voice talent'... just in case anyone is needed to play Datu's evil twin or something.... right, Kc? :rolleyes:

Litmaster
Jan 30th, 2012, 06:45 PM
At 4:13 in the new episode, we hear Cpl. Puck say, "Hey you, shut it down! Kill it! You're wastin' fuel."

This seemed an odd thing to say--why would Puck care whether or not the Tower chopper has fuel, unless...

IRWIN FUEL THEORY:
Let me be the first one to float this theory, that the reason why the other choppers we saw were still 'strapped down' and not being used is not because of a lack of available pilots, but because Ft. Irwin lacks enough fuel to fly the birds. Hmmm, now where could they find some available fuel.... enough, let's say, to fuel a fleet of assault choppers to launch an upcoming aerial attack on the Maller / Colony ??? HA! That would provide rationale for our friends to make a return trip to LA, and a possible reunion with Saul and the Gang.

StickUpKid
Jan 30th, 2012, 06:54 PM
burts for sure alive i dnt think kc would have said that if it werent true. but lest we for get that angel was on top of the building. he would have fallen nine stories to the bottom. although im sure angel is alive, its very unlikely that he wouldve in the real world.

7oddisdead
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:06 PM
Just to add to all the Burt possibles....here's one

Burt hit building(not tower) lands on balcony...knocked out. Later runs up to roof...choppers gone
Uses rope to repel down building...gets captured when mallers return

On angels end, perhaps he did have the same idea and was repelling off the tower as it collapsed..ill admit this one is way out there...but when the tower fell. He somehow survived by not actually being "on" the tower..though it did kinda fall "on" him...

Well that's enough makings things up for one day...:)

StickUpKid
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:07 PM
not trying to beat a dead horse on the angel thing but wasnt he just standing on the roof after he grabbed the journals and gave them to hope?

nikvoodoo
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:07 PM
burts for sure alive i dnt think kc would have said that if it werent true. but lest we for get that angel was on top of the building. he would have fallen nine stories to the bottom. although im sure angel is alive, its very unlikely that he wouldve in the real world.

there were survivors of the Twin Towers who survived the collapse from the 22nd story. So it's possible in real life.
Angel only fell a fraction of that height at 14-15 stories.

StickUpKid
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:13 PM
hmm never thought of that. but i do hope he is alive he was growing to be one of the better characters

cupcakezombie
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:23 PM
I just realised something. The Fort Irwin guys recognised the chopper when they landed. This is the Jolly Green Giant from the airport, which means that at some point this chopper either went to or came from Ft. Irwin. I am guessing that it was possibly a fuel run if they went to the airport, and Michael and crew might have to answer some questions about how they came to be in possession of it.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:35 PM
I just realised something. The Fort Irwin guys recognised the chopper when they landed. This is the Jolly Green Giant from the airport, which means that at some point this chopper either went to or came from Ft. Irwin. I am guessing that it was possibly a fuel run if they went to the airport, and Michael and crew might have to answer some questions about how they came to be in possession of it.

Yeah I forgot about that part. But wasn't that the same one that was filled with bullet holes, dead bodies and blood? Hmmm they've got some splainin' to do if it was =P

looney
Jan 30th, 2012, 08:11 PM
Great episode (like that even needs to be said), and it definitely demonstrates the difference between a soft skill soldier (Michael) and an Infantryman (myself). 1. I see a HMMV and a squad car,...

nikvoodoo
Jan 30th, 2012, 08:13 PM
I think you two are onto something....namely the conflict before the any alliance can happen between the Tower and the Irwin-ites. it can't be easy or where's the fun in that?

Sulla
Jan 30th, 2012, 09:37 PM
I thought Pegs had the chopper from the hospital. I'm pretty sure but could be wrong

nikvoodoo
Jan 30th, 2012, 09:56 PM
I thought Pegs had the chopper from the hospital. I'm pretty sure but could be wrong

She had the LAX helo. Remember, the chopper from the Hospital was ready to go immediately which is why Kalani flew it to the Golf course for the exchange....and then into the base of the Tower/Tanker Truck. Datu and Pegs arrived late to the Tower's destruction "party" because she was waiting for Datu to fix the shot up army helicopter.

Test subject 9
Jan 30th, 2012, 10:24 PM
I'm getting a feeling that the base wasn't the primary evac spot but some kind of second location. And I think Mr. Whiskers is lonely.

AdrianHD
Jan 31st, 2012, 12:03 AM
Yep. There'll definitely be a rescue mission back to LA. I've had that floating in my head since they first took off to Irwin. I'm hoping some sort of connection will be made between Puck and Saul or Angel.

MrWhiskers
Jan 31st, 2012, 02:53 AM
Hello, New to posting on this forum.
I'm just wondering why the bodies back at the Tower were left to rot? Shouldn't the zombies have taken them to eat?

Wondering out loud now: One thought I have is that someone (Mallers?) have come back to remove from the dead bodies any evidence of where they are, their plans etc. But why would they go to the effort of doing so? Maybe the Mallers are worried the Tower group will lead the FtIrwin Soldiers back to them. Some greater battle having already occured between Mallers and FtIrwin outside of the story arc??

mr boom95
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:00 AM
I am very glad that this was an episode of substantial length. (still not long enough)

Pickle72
Jan 31st, 2012, 04:53 AM
I think the bodied where left to rot because the mallers blew up there "nest". Maybe once they get a new nest made, they will start taking there bodies again?

Definitely a connection between Fort Irwin and the chopper. But didn't Michael describe the chopper as being Coast Guard when they found it? Or was it just the type used by the Coast Guard? I am re-listening to the episodes now but haven't' gotten to that part again yet.

Adventureless_Hero
Jan 31st, 2012, 08:57 AM
there were survivors of the Twin Towers who survived the collapse from the 22nd story. So it's possible in real life.
Angel only fell a fraction of that height at 14-15 stories.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I had been thinking it for a while but didn't want to post it out of fear people would say, "How dare you compare the two!"

I believe the conflict between Michael's group and the Ft. Irwin survivors could spur from the Helicopter; perhaps Ft. Irwin received the final transmissions from the original JGG's crew saying they were under attack from normals. With the quickness that the Mallers raided L.A. I have very little doubt they were the one's responsible for the helicopter being riddles with bullet holes. But just to satisfy a crazy notion; what if there were two helicopters on that pad. One belongs to Ft. Irwin and the other is the Coast Guard. The CG crew says, "We'll rendezvous with you all at Ft. Irwin." The Ft. Irwin crew says, "Nuh uh. You have an infected on board your bird." They argue. The coast guard crew refuses to back down. Ft. Irwin crew opens fire. Just a random possibility...

I do believe in the long term we are going to see a Ft. Irwin/Tower Survivors vs. Mallers/Colony. I also believe that Michael might find some Intel on ground zero at Ft. Irwin. What say you Nik?

DeeKay86
Jan 31st, 2012, 09:14 AM
Absolutely loved this episode (like every other episode!). It raised a few interesting theories though!

Where to begin?

Ok, BURT:

I believe he's alive. If he wasnt alive, where is his body!? The mallers wouldnt drag his body away if he was DEAD! On top of that, the zombies havent taken bodies away either. Therefore, if he wasnt dragged away, he was Taken Alive or Walked away!
I also believe that his zip line broke between him and the building his was going Towards, therefore he would have swung backwards on to the tower. Leaving 10 or so yards or rope on Michaels end, and the rest on the tower end.

I don't see Angel dying in this story, not just yet. For a character like him to just die like that wouldnt be too pleasing. Also, as mentioned before, it IS possible that he survived the tower collapse. Its also possible that he rapelled down off the rope that Burt was hanging off. Remember, they never found Angels body either!! Now, either he is under a lot of tower, or hes been taken alive or has walked away - just like Burt.

I loved the whole scenario at Ft Irwin, brilliant. However, I don't trust these 'soldiers' yet. They are, obviously, hiding some truth (about the chopper etc), but who can blame them? Also, I think its quite odd how their commander etc wasnt available right away. Maybe he doesn't exist?

The 'nice' soldier talking to Michael seems pretty cool though. He may turn out to be another character like Victor who supports our much loved group in the future.

Keep up the good work Kc and crew!!!

edit: I hope they DO go back to LA to rendezvous / search for Saul etc, but according to Michael, they are all dead! Unless Saul etc can get a word to our group at Ft Irwin, why would Michael and co go searching for them??

That leads me to the conclusion that they will Not go looking for any 'tower' survivors, BUT will go to get supplies / fuel etc! Thats when they will 'accidently' bump in to some tower survivors!!

looney
Jan 31st, 2012, 09:28 AM
I far from trust the soldiers that they encounter on the air field at Irwin. I understand a commander not being available. Even without Zs everywhere, my commander can take days just to return a phone call. One of the things that lends credibility is the corporal that shows up says his MOS is 31B, military police. Assuming his commander is a real commander and has come up through the officer ranks, he would know that detainee operations and searching prisoners/new comers is perfectly suited to an MP unit, as opposed to sending a signal team or a pair of cooks. Fort Irwin also has plenty of MPs, as well as a Cavalry regiment, so it's not unrealistic that they were able to sustain themselves for a long time with little stress to the lower ranks. Also, geographically Fort Irwin is out in the middle of nowhere. It would be a great place to set up for a herd of Zs if you wanted to see them coming. The downside is getting back out off post to look for supplies or survivors. It would be a multiple-day excursion just to get to LA, never mind trying to accomplish a search and rescue.

DeeKay86
Jan 31st, 2012, 09:31 AM
I far from trust the soldiers that they encounter on the air field at Irwin. I understand a commander not being available. Even without Zs everywhere, my commander can take days just to return a phone call. One of the things that lends credibility is the corporal that shows up says his MOS is 31B, military police. Assuming his commander is a real commander and has come up through the officer ranks, he would know that detainee operations and searching prisoners/new comers is perfectly suited to an MP unit, as opposed to sending a signal team or a pair of cooks. Fort Irwin also has plenty of MPs, as well as a Cavalry regiment, so it's not unrealistic that they were able to sustain themselves for a long time with little stress to the lower ranks. Also, geographically Fort Irwin is out in the middle of nowhere. It would be a great place to set up for a herd of Zs if you wanted to see them coming. The downside is getting back out off post to look for supplies or survivors. It would be a multiple-day excursion just to get to LA, never mind trying to accomplish a search and rescue.

Agreed. My "does he exist?" theory was my weakest!! LOL

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:05 AM
As for it not being possible that Angel escaped from the crumbling tower, if Burt can survive what initially seemed to be a 10 story fall, then Angel has a damn good shot of surviving a crumbling building. As for how he did it, wait and see, I'm sure Kc'll tell you.

hahahahah! Ra1th, Ra1th, Ra1th.. Of course Angel is alive
*shhhh ya'll. he'll hear us if we say otherwise and we don't want to make him mad at us*

So um, yah Rai1th.. Angel had better be alive since it looks like Burt is still kicking. When he does show up, he'll be the new leader too! Riley will find him and confess her undying love to him. *snicker*

Grognaurd
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:13 AM
I will have to listen again, but I do not think The Tower came down like we saw on that terrible day a decade ago. My memmory is that Saul or Victor says the wall tore away. I think the results are more like the Oklahoma Bombing. One wall collapses leaving most of the other three walls intact.

Assumption: Mr. Whiskers was in the tower. If it was a total implosion survival rate is real low. But, collapse one side and there are a lot more survivors; Angel, Mr. Whiskers, Maybe Louis possibly even a random redshirt or two.

Burt, I have been a fan of the hand break theory. I just have not posted it. Line snaps and he...

1)If the remainder of line is short enough, he squeezes the hell out of the hand break. He hits the wall like a wrecking ball and falls / slides down the building unconscious. The hand break's natural position is open. So, once Burt blacks out, it could open up and Michael would not notice much resistance.

2) If the Line is too long, he crash lands hard and skids some the line and hand break are worthless.

3)If it is the GoldieLocks Line he skids across the ground or whatever slowing him down significantly. He gets some pendulum action and does not hit too hard.

===========
Stepping out of plot arguments, I am confident that Burt is alive. As I listen to the Podcast, I think I am supposed to be Michael, blending what is written in the journals, his own recall of the events if he was there and hearsay in a debriefing or gossip. When I hear something "in character" like a narration, I believe that it is ment to represent what is actually written in the journal. But, I might be wrong.

Once Michael gets back from the Colony, the rest of the season is only ~48 to 72 hours I think. Not a lot of time for Burt to write in the journal. In fact, from the Narration of the RPG / Hummvee to the broken zip in is a few minutes. I really do not think he wrote it all down and told Hope to take it just in case he does not make it.

Angel or a redshirt survives. We hear events leading up to the Maller attack. Angel is speaking to Stephen who is opperating the camera. We have Stephen's corpse. These events are transcribed or Michael will not be able to know of them.

Last, I "know" Burt is still alive, because that lil cu** Scratch will have stolen Shirly and we will have the Scratch and Burt Battle. There has been several back and forths between the two that serve as foreshadowing. Not the least of which is, "Dibs, on your shiny pistol. That's out here..."

Adventureless_Hero
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:31 AM
Although I favor the idea that Durai and the rest of the Mallers are headed towards the colony and we might have an eventual Mallers/Colony vs. Ft. Irwin/Tower Survivors, I can't help but think how against the idea of new comers the Colony was. If the Mallers don't have some sort of deal set up with the Colony then it could end up being the Mallers vs. the Colony. Victor could again become pivotal in the survival of our heroes. If the Mallers go to war with the Colony the Victor might be able to safely lead Saul in to free Lizzie, Burt, and Angel amid all the chaos.

Damn, there are just so many avenues this story can take!

awkwardalex
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:52 AM
Michael knew he was going to Fort Irwin ahead of time, and the only piece of proof he had to being in the Army.

Damn, thought I had something...

Cabbage Patch
Jan 31st, 2012, 11:31 AM
CPL Puck is an MP wearing a Fort Irwin patch. That means he's probably assigned to the Fort Irwin Garrison (as opposed to the OPFOR or the Operations Group) and he reports to the garrison/post...

Cabbage Patch
Jan 31st, 2012, 12:15 PM
I wonder who else was evacuated to Fort Irwin?

When Michael asked his guard what the situation was at Fort Irwin that soldier, Private Thomas, said "It's whoever's stationed here still, sergeant. This is the place where they send..." at which point he was cut off by Corporal Puck. Send who?

Then another soldier recognizes the ID number from the helicopter? The only way a group of Army MPs would recognize a Coast Guard helicopter is if they had either seen it before or had been alerted to be on the lookout for it.

These points makes me think that Fort Irwin was an evacuation site during the outbreak. It may be the place where the Coast Guard took the first arrivals to the Colony, or maybe it was transporting high value evacuees from Los Angeles.

My personal theory is that Fort Irwin is where the government took people who were doing research into the zombies. A group from Radon Labs was evacuated out of LAX, but one helicopter, the Coast Guard Pelican, never arrived. It was carrying vital equipment/supplies/research, etc. and everyone has been alerted to look for it. The Tower survivors didn't know what the cargo on the helicopter was, and left it sitting on the pad at LAX. This necessitates a trip back to LA to retrieve the cargo.

Adventureless_Hero
Jan 31st, 2012, 12:43 PM
I wonder who else was evacuated to Fort Irwin?

When Michael asked his guard what the situation was at Fort Irwin that soldier, Private Thomas, said "It's whoever's stationed here still, sergeant. This is the place where they send..." at which point he was cut off by Corporal Puck. Send who?

Then another soldier recognizes the ID number from the helicopter? The only way a group of Army MPs would recognize a Coast Guard helicopter is if they had either seen it before or had been alerted to be on the lookout for it.

These points makes me think that Fort Irwin was an evacuation site during the outbreak. It may be the place where the Coast Guard took the first arrivals to the Colony, or maybe it was transporting high value evacuees from Los Angeles.

My personal theory is that Fort Irwin is where the government took people who were doing research into the zombies. A group from Star Labs group was evacuated out of LAX, but one helicopter, the Coast Guard Pelican, never arrived. It was carrying vital equipment/supplies/research, etc. and everyone has been alerted to look for it. The Tower survivors didn't know what the cargo on the helicopter was, and left it sitting on the pad at LAX. This necessitates a trip back to LA to retrieve the cargo.

Ooooh...I like this theory! I do believe that answers lay at Ft. Irwin. I'm hoping Michael digs for answers and doesn't just fall into line as a soldier once more. If there is someone there who out ranks him, what will become of Michael as a leader?

Grognaurd
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Good Post CP!

The Colony had MP5's.
The repaired Coast Guard Chopper had MP5's
Victor or maybe Marcus said there were rescue choppers in and out of The Colony's location early on.

So, let's tease this apart some more.

Would the Coast Guard be issued MP5s? I do not know. I figure standard side arm. With a special issue of long rifles if required. An MP5 would not be out of the question, but I do not know. Just sits wrong with me. I would want an MP5 in close quarters (SWAT) or trying to be discrete (Secret Service). But, damn, a sailboat. That is even more up close and personal than a building and I think I would lean towards side arm. Does the Coat Guard do close assaults or call for backup?

To make things more curious, one of the MP5's from the colony had a suppressor. Could be an addon, but the MP5 does have a suppressed model. This sounds even less like the Coast Guard.

Something about this chopper makes it stand out. The coast guard must have multiple choppers. Why would Thomas and Puck remember this number? Spec Ops under a "False Flag"? Not a false country, but a false agency. The CIA used paint some of the spy planes as NOAA; The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. I do not know. I think the cause of this is conspiritorial. Not "natural" like a metorite in Night of the Living Dead, accidental release of virus (28 days later) etc...

kidmuncher
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:34 PM
The guys at Fort Irwin recognize the number on the helicopter. I seem to remember that when the helicopter was found at LAX there was a comment about it being used in the initial rescues, and took this as a reference to the rescues that were happening at the colony

Do you think the people at Fort Irwin were involved in the rescue effort and they know about the colony? It makes me wonder if that's why the soldiers seemed cautious of the tower survivors--maybe they thought they were from the colony.

Given that the tower survivors have had more casualties from human threats than from the "things," you'd think they would be a little bit restrained in showing their excitement when encountering another survivor group. Especially Kelly and Pegs, who were at the colony. Given that experience, I thought Kelly's comment about getting laid was a little out of place. Michael did seem to be appropriately wary though when he wasn't willing to surrender his rifle or show them their weapons cache.

ReeceJM
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:52 PM
I just realised something. The Fort Irwin guys recognised the chopper when they landed. This is the Jolly Green Giant from the airport, which means that at some point this chopper either went to or came from Ft. Irwin. I am guessing that it was possibly a fuel run if they went to the airport, and Michael and crew might have to answer some questions about how they came to be in possession of it.

This is a excellent point :) well spotted.

Litmaster
Jan 31st, 2012, 02:39 PM
My personal theory is that Fort Irwin is where the government took people who were doing research into the zombies. A group from Star Labs group was evacuated out of LAX, but one helicopter, the Coast Guard Pelican, never arrived. It was carrying vital equipment/supplies/research, etc. and everyone has been alerted to look for it. The Tower survivors didn't know what the cargo on the helicopter was, and left it sitting on the pad at LAX. This necessitates a trip back to LA to retrieve the cargo.

Great thinking, Cabbage Patch... I had the same idea yesterday but you one-upped me with the additional theory about the Star Labs group. Any evidence so far that Star Labs was evac'd out of LAX? Also, I couple of things about this that weren't mentioned:

Misc. Thoughts about Irwin as Evac Site

1. My initial thinking was that it was named as an evac site after the outbreak, and that all available choppers in the LA area were made rescue vehicles. About the #1420... I'm not sure how choppers are numbered, but maybe Irwin was designated all choppers numbered from 1000-2000 or something. This might explain why the number was recognized. The other explanation, as CP wrote, was that the guys at Irwin were on the lookout for this specific bird.

2. LAX and the old park at the Colony were two of the evac sites that were hastily set up, but perhaps only a few birds actually got people out before all was overrun and dissolved into chaos. I still think the 1420 bird was just attacked by Eaters before they could get a full load off the ground (destined for Irwin), which would explain the soldiers being puzzled as to why this bird finally showed up, months late, and with different passengers than they were expecting. Also, there is the lingering issue of 'who killed the other guys', which Mike and the boys will have to answer.

3. If some birds did succeed in evacuating people before all was overrun, then it's possible that some people at Irwin could have been flown out from the colony area before it became the colony. Maybe some of them even know Saul's mom.

4. So why haven't any of these other birds been up in the air looking for survivors, if Irwin is indeed an evac site? The only two answers I can think of is that there's no pilots or there's no fuel. I think it's the latter situation at Irwin.

5. One more thing not mentioned: anyone else notice the kind of laid-back reception they got upon arrival at Irwin? Very different from the harsh in-processing they got at the Colony, right? In fact, none of the army guys seemed to know what to do with visitors, which tells me that they probably haven't gotten any new visitors in a long time. Also, the absence of some strict in-processing procedure tells me that the natural isolation of the base has also kept them safe from Eater attacks.

IamPaul
Jan 31st, 2012, 02:59 PM
Great episode. I am now at a crossroads. I think I am more excited about the Saul/Victor Storyline. The Ft. Irwin one sounds like another colony, but I guess we will soon find out. I think that the body with all the ID's on it was maybe Kalani. Victor did act as if he would not recognize anyone or thing at the tower. I was hoping that Saul was hearing Burt or Angel climbing out of rubble, then it turned out to be that damn cat! Cannot wait until next week fellows!

Leedo2502
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:23 PM
Good Post CP!

The Colony had MP5's.
The repaired Coast Guard Chopper had MP5's
Victor or maybe Marcus said there were rescue choppers in and out of The Colony's location early on.

So, let's tease this apart some more.

Would the Coast Guard be issued MP5s? I do not know. I figure standard side arm. With a special issue of long rifles if required. An MP5 would not be out of the question, but I do not know. Just sits wrong with me. I would want an MP5 in close quarters (SWAT) or trying to be discrete (Secret Service). But, damn, a sailboat. That is even more up close and personal than a building and I think I would lean towards side arm. Does the Coat Guard do close assaults or call for backup?

To make things more curious, one of the MP5's from the colony had a suppressor. Could be an addon, but the MP5 does have a suppressed model. This sounds even less like the Coast Guard.

Something about this chopper makes it stand out. The coast guard must have multiple choppers. Why would Thomas and Puck remember this number? Spec Ops under a "False Flag"? Not a false country, but a false agency. The CIA used paint some of the spy planes as NOAA; The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. I do not know. I think the cause of this is conspiritorial. Not "natural" like a metorite in Night of the Living Dead, accidental release of virus (28 days later) etc...

I'm no expert on what the USCG isues its guys but an MP-5 makes perfect sense to me. If you are doing searches of a ship and what-not the last thing you'd want was a rifle or even a carbine. An MP-5 is great for walking through the narrow passages below decks and the 9mm round is good since it won't be bouncing around as much as a 5.56 round would. Now a silenced one... that would definatly not be standard issue.
Wouldn't it be great though if this were some nafarious plot cooked up by the Coast Guard... the branch that is shunned by the others dropping the zombie plague on the world... that would be Bond-esque.
But I am sticking with the "False Flag" idea that I posted when we first ran into the Helicopter all those episodes ago... The Coast Guard is seen as the "Freindly" branch of the Military, when you see a soldier all his swag on using his knife hand point and carying an assault rifle the normal civilian reaction is to be weary... but when you see a guy that done up like a dude in the USCG with a smaller sub machine gun wearing a navyblue jumpsuit and coming out of a heliopter that isn't "Scary looking" you give him a little leeway and you might even jump on that bird to be taken to "Saftey" (muhahahahaaa!).
I'm thinking the two Joe's on the helipad either knew someone that was on that bird when it went back to LA or that they were told to be on the look-out for it, which would be why the private remembered and the corpral didn't... corprals usually have a chip on their shoulder from having all the responsibility on a SGT. but none of the pay.

Great episode, I can't wait til next week!

Kc
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:26 PM
Just because a few people said "There's no way a z could find something to grab onto the bird" .... I wanted to post this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/HH-3F_over_CGAS_San_Diego_1981.JPEG/800px-HH-3F_over_CGAS_San_Diego_1981.JPEG

Want to zoom in? Go here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HH-3F_over_CGAS_San_Diego_1981.JPEG

Leedo2502
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:38 PM
Just because a few people said "There's no way a z could find something to grab onto the bird" .... I wanted to post this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/HH-3F_over_CGAS_San_Diego_1981.JPEG/800px-HH-3F_over_CGAS_San_Diego_1981.JPEG

Want to zoom in? Go here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HH-3F_over_CGAS_San_Diego_1981.JPEG

Apparently those people never watched a single episode of Baywatch of Hawaii Five-0 where not only was hanging from a helicopter possible but it was common-place

Leedo2502
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:42 PM
When I was listening to this episode I was thinking it was pretty lucky that it was Michael and not Saul that made it to Ft. Irwin, Saul like most Infantrymen would have been "31-what??" I can't speak for all Infantrymen but ubless we here the actual job description we don't know any MOS outside of the 11 series and a few other Combat Arms MOSs

7oddisdead
Jan 31st, 2012, 04:13 PM
So I relistened today. And I just want to make sure I heard everything correctly
from chpt 24
At the other building, where the chopper left from...when Burt fell michael pulled the zip line up to see the frayed,broken end.
At that point the chopper left
26
When Saul and victor got to the building, it was still locked up from the inside.
On the roof, the zip line was now hanging over the edge, Saul used it to repel down the building(this is the part in not 100% on)

I'll save the speculation...just want be sure I have the facts correct

looney
Jan 31st, 2012, 04:31 PM
When I was listening to this episode I was thinking it was pretty lucky that it was Michael and not Saul that made it to Ft. Irwin, Saul like most Infantrymen would have been "31-what??" I can't speak for all Infantrymen but ubless we here the actual job description we don't know any MOS outside of the 11 series and a few other Combat Arms MOSs

Now that I'm a drill sergeant, I know most MOSs that are common across the Army. When I was on the line, I knew 31B from seeing them around post and from WLC. Actually, before drill school I knew most MOSs that we run into at work. I agree that a lot of us don't know MOSs by alphanumeric characters, but if he didn't know he, he could have just asked.

nikvoodoo
Jan 31st, 2012, 05:25 PM
I do believe in the long term we are going to see a Ft. Irwin/Tower Survivors vs. Mallers/Colony. I also believe that Michael might find some Intel on ground zero at Ft. Irwin. What say you Nik?

Not sure. It's hard to say right now simply because we don't know what those guys have been up to in general. Is there a good possibility? I'd say yeah. Probably. But evac would have happened early on and stopped pretty quick according to all survivors involved (Colony...hell even Saul within the first 9 hours) so how much information could they get if they are coming in from Irwin and going straight back to Irwin? Doesn't seem like many of these rescue missions went very well.

And re: the Twin Tower collapse is something I mentioned last year after chapter 24 when people were saying there was no way Angel could survive in real life.

Razorw1re
Jan 31st, 2012, 06:27 PM
If there are survivors of the tower collapse, primarily Burt, I think that there are a few situations to consider.
1. Burt is bruised a abttered, but otherwise fine. If that is the case, does he still have shirly? cause if the mallers come a call'n and he is armed, then the rat meat is one of the mallers.
2. Burt is alive, but unconscious. Scratch will want to interrogate him with as much brutality she can muster without killing him.
3. burt is alive, possibly angel and some other random tower dwellers. They regroup, knowing where the others are flying off to and try to make a way to communicat and or signal a possible rescue if/when that should arrive.
FT. Irwin :
Though I trust that this place will not be as controlled as the colony, but we dont know who the Colonel is, and when the soldiers do contact him, he may not want to invite more survivors that may interfere with his power. Once bitten twice shy, I feel that FT Irwin is going not going to become home. though they may stock up on supplies and or form an alliance to take on the Mallers and the Colony . 2 on 2 sounds fair. There are also some "desert camo" choppers too, so it may be an opportunity to fuel up, get another chopper to scout with or even take the time for Peegs to teach Michael or someone to fly as well. Kelly will prolly get laid if thats what she want, I am sure those soldiers wont deny that basic needs either........

Paolo912
Jan 31st, 2012, 08:27 PM
I hate to debunk all the hopefuls, and before you all hop aboard the Rage train and say I just don't like angel, I love Angel.
When the JGG (Jolly Green Giant) flew up towards the roof of the tower after the line snapped, They were trying to figure out a way to pick up angel.
Had they had time they could have done 2 things:
1)Gotten close and opened the door letting him get pulled in
2) Gotten as low as they could and have him grab on to the bottom of the chopper like the Zombie did.

While I do believe he is a alive for the Story's sake, There is on major thing that takes away from that hope. The last time they see angel is when they are trying to pick him up from the roof. Seconds later the last RPG sails past and hits the roof. If logic serves correctly; The chopper was as close to Angel as possible and this is the Same side of the roof as the Slack Zipline. I made a thread asking how much damage an RPG would do to a concrete wall with a person behind it.
he general response was the person would be Obliterated. Even if he did survive the blast there is 0 chance that he rappelled down for 2 reasons:
1)he is badly injured, Regardless of how much damage he took from the blast, he was most definitely thrown backwards into Bills New skylight.
2)The Blast most definitely broke the rope at the top of the tower. A small explosion wouldn't have done it. Bu this blast was large enough to be the Tipping point for the tower. Literally.
I think he is Alive. But he did not Rappelle down. Not a chance in hell.

Ra1th
Jan 31st, 2012, 09:00 PM
I hate to debunk all the hopefuls, and before you all hop aboard the Rage train and say I just don't like angel, I love Angel.
When the JGG (Jolly Green Giant) flew up towards the roof of the tower after the line snapped, They were trying to figure out a way to pick up angel.
Had they had time they could have done 2 things:
1)Gotten close and opened the door letting him get pulled in
2) Gotten as low as they could and have him grab on to the bottom of the chopper like the Zombie did.

While I do believe he is a alive for the Story's sake, There is on major thing that takes away from that hope. The last time they see angel is when they are trying to pick him up from the roof. Seconds later the last RPG sails past and hits the roof. If logic serves correctly; The chopper was as close to Angel as possible and this is the Same side of the roof as the Slack Zipline. I made a thread asking how much damage an RPG would do to a concrete wall with a person behind it.
he general response was the person would be Obliterated. Even if he did survive the blast there is 0 chance that he rappelled down for 2 reasons:
1)he is badly injured, Regardless of how much damage he took from the blast, he was most definitely thrown backwards into Bills New skylight.
2)The Blast most definitely broke the rope at the top of the tower. A small explosion wouldn't have done it. Bu this blast was large enough to be the Tipping point for the tower. Literally.
I think he is Alive. But he did not Rappelle down. Not a chance in hell.

you're right on most accounts but the last time he was seen was after the zip line broke. By the time the chopper was in the air, and got a closer look at the roof of the tower, he was no where to be seen. So he had a couple of minutes before the tower crumbled to make his escape

Ra1th
Jan 31st, 2012, 09:11 PM
hahahahah! Ra1th, Ra1th, Ra1th.. Of course Angel is alive
*shhhh ya'll. he'll hear us if we say otherwise and we don't want to make him mad at us*

So um, yah Rai1th.. Angel had better be alive since it looks like Burt is still kicking. When he does show up, he'll be the new leader too! Riley will find him and confess her undying love to him. *snicker*

LOL dream come true hahahahaha

nikvoodoo
Jan 31st, 2012, 09:31 PM
I hate to debunk all the hopefuls, and before you all hop aboard the Rage train and say I just don't like angel, I love Angel.
When the JGG (Jolly Green Giant) flew up towards the roof of the tower after the line snapped, They were trying to figure out a way to pick up angel.
Had they had time they could have done 2 things:
1)Gotten close and opened the door letting him get pulled in
2) Gotten as low as they could and have him grab on to the bottom of the chopper like the Zombie did.

While I do believe he is a alive for the Story's sake, There is on major thing that takes away from that hope. The last time they see angel is when they are trying to pick him up from the roof. Seconds later the last RPG sails past and hits the roof. If logic serves correctly; The chopper was as close to Angel as possible and this is the Same side of the roof as the Slack Zipline. I made a thread asking how much damage an RPG would do to a concrete wall with a person behind it.
he general response was the person would be Obliterated. Even if he did survive the blast there is 0 chance that he rappelled down for 2 reasons:
1)he is badly injured, Regardless of how much damage he took from the blast, he was most definitely thrown backwards into Bills New skylight.
2)The Blast most definitely broke the rope at the top of the tower. A small explosion wouldn't have done it. Bu this blast was large enough to be the Tipping point for the tower. Literally.
I think he is Alive. But he did not Rappelle down. Not a chance in hell.

Greetings and salutations. Good first post.

While there is basically no way to know what they could and couldn't see, it's implied that they lost visual contact with Angel because of the smoke they were flying in (also the reason why Pegs couldn't hold the helicopter steady....hurray for the principles of physics!!). Pegs was also swinging the helicopter away from their current location to avoid the incoming RPG and also to try to get better positioning for the rescue. It's not a lot of time, but it's enough time that Angel could have run to the stairs to get off the roof.

But the real point I'd bring against the obliteration concept is the RPG didn't hit the roof. It hit "near the top of the Tower" according to Michael (24 ~48:30 or so) which is what caused the chain reaction and collapse. While still not a pleasant experience, the shock wave would be dissipated by having to go through at least one outer wall, potentially multiple inner walls, and a ceiling (maybe even the stairwell) before it hit Angel. Same concept applies if Angel escaped the roof and returned to the Penthouse level. If it hit a floor below him, it would have to travel through just as much gak to get to him. Same level impact........well that would just be a big ol' ouchy.

But I agree there's no way he rappelled down the Tower. I feel like he road it to the ground.

Pikepaw
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:12 PM
My first thought when the Private recognized the serial number of the Green Rooster was that he had a buddy on the chopper. But I do like the theory that they were on the lookout for the serial number for some reason or another. Deserters, disguised spec ops unit, a group of scientists, who knows? Also Leedo yeah the suppressed MP5 is suspicious. There is no good reason for coast guard chopper pilots or the coast at all to have suppressed weapons for standard operations. If I remember correctly, California is one of many states where suppressors are illegal. So where the hell did that come from?

I think we need to question why the the bodies were left behind. I believe the hospital is the new arena, so the Z's have somewhere to bring the corpses to. But according to Scratch in the after the credits scene, most of the zombies ran off after the tower collapsed. But that was several hours ago. To me it seems that there was a good chunk of time for the zombies to come back and collect. Also they didn't even take Steven and crew from the car, who I thought were torn up by zombies. Was I wrong in how I interpreted that scene in chapter 24? Are the zombies up to something else? Is there some other secret about them? Is it as simple that they were scared off by the tower collapse and the Mallers searching the area in force? I am trying to come up with a reason but I can't. Maybe it is like the early chapters where the zombies took a few days to collect the dead. Maybe they are comfortable right now, thus not desperate to gather food. If they are comfortable then things are going their way...
Last theory on this is that maybe the biters take longer to come and collect when there is a large number of bodies...but they cleaned up the arena explosion relatively quickly...

Paolo912
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:14 PM
Greetings Ra1th and Nick!
I started listening to WA in the middle of chapter 16.
Since then i've listened to the entire series more than 8 times. And yes i am dead serious. When each episode comes out i listen to it 6-7 times in a row.
And yes i do have a life :D
While i Nick's theory is excellent, I see 1 flaw. they were as close to angel as possible and the RPG hit the edge of the roof(abouts), this would be feet from Angel. They can clearly see him "There! There he is!"-Michael even through the smoke. I think that the wording of KC "I could no longer see Angel" is obvious that he didn't die but i doubt that he had time in the span of a single second that the RPG took to reach the tower to dive into the stairwell.
Sorry if i'm Being stubborn, None of my friends that do listen (and they are few) are devoted enough to have any actual theories.
At some point in this season i might see if i can find the time and motivation to pester Britt and get on WND.

Sorry ra1th, They see him before the Rocket hits, then he is gone after.

This thought just popped into my head; Scratch says she found what she was looking for right next to the person that was messed up.
What if Angel didn't grab everything from the desk, maybe there was something in the other drawer.Also, Unless he put it back at some point during chapter 24,Kalani couldn't have placed the Suppressed pistol (no, it's suppressed not silenced), so its not what Scratch found.The desk may have broken apart or something when it fell. He probably fell into Bills apartment.
Thoughts?

looney
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:32 PM
I want to dispel the myth that an RPG will seriously injure your if it hits a wall with you on the other side. An RPG hit the wall I was against in 2004, went off, and all I got was a headache. This was middle eastern construction which is not the best. Now I'm not saying there is no way an RPG is going to hurt or kill you if it hits the same wall you're on, but I know that it's survivable and in my case only caused a little headache.

nikvoodoo
Jan 31st, 2012, 10:37 PM
Greetings Ra1th and Nick!
I started listening to WA in the middle of chapter 16.
Since then i've listened to the entire series more than 8 times. And yes i am dead serious. When each episode comes out i listen to it 6-7 times in a row.
And yes i do have a life :D
While i Nick's theory is excellent, I see 1 flaw. they were as close to angel as possible and the RPG hit the edge of the roof(abouts), this would be feet from Angel. They can clearly see him "There! There he is!"-Michael even through the smoke. I think that the wording of KC "I could no longer see Angel" is obvious that he didn't die but i doubt that he had time in the span of a single second that the RPG took to reach the tower to dive into the stairwell.
Sorry if i'm Being stubborn, None of my friends that do listen (and they are few) are devoted enough to have any actual theories.
At some point in this season i might see if i can find the time and motivation to pester Britt and get on WND.

Sorry ra1th, They see him before the Rocket hits, then he is gone after.

This thought just popped into my head; Scratch says she found what she was looking for right next to the person that was messed up.
What if Angel didn't grab everything from the desk, maybe there was something in the other drawer.Also, Unless he put it back at some point during chapter 24,Kalani couldn't have placed the Suppressed pistol (no, it's suppressed not silenced), so its not what Scratch found.The desk may have broken apart or something when it fell. He probably fell into Bills apartment.
Thoughts?

Where are you getting they were as close as possible to Angel? They were as close as Pegs could physically get in the updraft of Kalani's fire, but that doesn't mean she was close enough to the roof that they were just feet away from each other.

I realize that in real time, an RPG flies damn fast. But Kelly had enough time to ID the puff of smoke and about 4-5 seconds later the RPG hits the Tower (again, "near the top" not at the top). Near the top could be anywhere from floors 12-Roof IMO. Take a listen to the section again using my theory as a basis and see if you're able to piece the sequence together that way. I just did using yours (and maybe its because I'm far too set in my ways) but it became more of a "error/omission" to me than how it happened....like you were trying to give an explanation as to how he could survive despite having an RPG explode at his feet. I may be missing some of your finer points as I'm typing this sentence with my eyes closed....

And it's good to be stubborn. you'll fit right in 'round here. I'm generally here to poke holes in theories so people have to think harder. Except for Ra1th and his Angel love.....That's just sport.......or trolling...depends on your POV. :D

Paolo912
Jan 31st, 2012, 11:06 PM
Where are you getting they were as close as possible to Angel? They were as close as Pegs could physically get in the updraft of Kalani's fire, but that doesn't mean she was close enough to the roof that they were just feet away from each other.

I realize that in real time, an RPG flies damn fast. But Kelly had enough time to ID the puff of smoke and about 4-5 seconds later the RPG hits the Tower (again, "near the top" not at the top). Near the top could be anywhere from floors 12-Roof IMO. Take a listen to the section again using my theory as a basis and see if you're able to piece the sequence together that way. I just did using yours (and maybe its because I'm far too set in my ways) but it became more of a "error/omission" to me than how it happened....like you were trying to give an explanation as to how he could survive despite having an RPG explode at his feet. I may be missing some of your finer points as I'm typing this sentence with my eyes closed....

And it's good to be stubborn. you'll fit right in 'round here. I'm generally here to poke holes in theories so people have to think harder. Except for Ra1th and his Angel love.....That's just sport.......or trolling...depends on your POV. :D

I love getting other opinions.
I assume that the RPG hit near the roof because the rocketeer was aiming for the chopper, unless he was way off and didn't account for the drop of the rocket, it would probably hit very high. I'm not saying this is some kind of magical rocket sniper who can hit a target from 300 feet away, but close is close enough when you're dealing with explosives right?

While I'm going to stick with my theory, yours is sound. I guess we just have to wait and see what cards KC deals us. Worst comes to worst we can always just settle our differences by having a thunderdome fight. 2 men go in, 1 man comes out.

clem131
Feb 1st, 2012, 04:41 AM
There was a general strike in Belgium on monday, so I worked from home. This means that yesteday (tuesday) my brain was wired like it was a monday. So, there was a funny couple of moments at 4 pm when I realized, in sequence:
1) oh look, the new WA is out. Cool, it's usually at 6 pm; 2) Let's go to the forums and thank KC for the early release; 3) Wait, 5 pages on the thread of the new episode which came out early?! That's str... 4) FFFFFUUUUUUUUU IT'S TUESDAY!!! I could have listened to it yesterday!! 5) ARGH! At least 2 more hours before I leave work and I can listen to it!! Damn! 6) Well, the bright side is: one day less to wait for the next episode.
KC, stop messing with my mind.
About the helicopter serial number, I'd go with the rescue option. They took off from the rescue points and brought people to Irwin, and that particular bird was lost to the zombies.

Adventureless_Hero
Feb 1st, 2012, 06:56 AM
I'm of the opinion that Angel did not get obliterated by the RPG. Perhaps he was knocked unconcious by it and thereby forced to ride the rubble as the tower collapsed. I don't think it is impossible for him to survive the tower collapse, especially if he was on the top floor and could stay above the debris. At the close of chapter 24, after the credits, it sounds like Scratch and Bricks find someone (a lot of us are assuming Angel). When they see this person, even Scratch is taken aback at the shape he is in. My conclusion: Angel is alive, barely. He currently exists in a state between Blonde Pretty Boy and Meatwad from ATHF.

Grognaurd
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:01 AM
I hate to debunk all the hopefuls, and before you all hop aboard the Rage train and say I just don't like angel, I love Angel.
When the JGG (Jolly Green Giant) flew up towards the roof of the tower after the line snapped, They were trying to figure out a way to pick up angel.
Had they had time they could have done 2 things:
1)Gotten close and opened the door letting him get pulled in
2) Gotten as low as they could and have him grab on to the bottom of the chopper like the Zombie did.

While I do believe he is a alive for the Story's sake, There is on major thing that takes away from that hope. The last time they see angel is when they are trying to pick him up from the roof. Seconds later the last RPG sails past and hits the roof. If logic serves correctly; The chopper was as close to Angel as possible and this is the Same side of the roof as the Slack Zipline. I made a thread asking how much damage an RPG would do to a concrete wall with a person behind it.
he general response was the person would be Obliterated. Even if he did survive the blast there is 0 chance that he rappelled down for 2 reasons:
1)he is badly injured, Regardless of how much damage he took from the blast, he was most definitely thrown backwards into Bills New skylight.
2)The Blast most definitely broke the rope at the top of the tower. A small explosion wouldn't have done it. Bu this blast was large enough to be the Tipping point for the tower. Literally.
I think he is Alive. But he did not Rappelle down. Not a chance in hell.


Mostly good points. What you propose could be done by a pilot specialist. Not someone who read a book, a couple of hours classroom and one or two hours actual stick-time on a different helicopter that is usually flown by a crew of 3. Add smoke visibility problems and disrupted wind patterns of a fire and a building and I do not see any Matrix-style rescues.

I am sill in favor of the repelliing option. The Mallers attacked from the north. The rescue building was to the south. If just the south side is collapsed ala Oklahoma City. Rather than a twin Tower collapse I can see Angel getting away by repelling down the southside but something went wrong.

Placement:

North

Maller sub-tower

Tanker / Chopper wreckage


The Tower's collapsed northface rubble all over the Tower's Tanker, unless they moved it between June and August
The Tower with East and West mostly in tact? Not sure.
Towers Intact south side
Angel

Burt
Rescue sub-tower

South
--------------------------------------------

In this model, Burt will be found first because he is furthest away from tower. When dust and smoke settle down, Angel is found.

Scratch says she found what she was looking for (Angel? people have speculated they have a past)
Scratch says put him back with the old M a/e n. I do not know if it was singular or plural

I do not think Scratch would say the save thing for a mostly dead Burt. Then again, all of this is speclation and I could say that "Shirely" is what Scratch was looking for.

But, what still bugs me is... How did the line break? All the destruction seems to be on the north side. So, I can accept the rope burning with some disbelief. But, the same amount of effort can lean me towards it was cut.

The Rope line is pretty high in the air. The air around the fire may be hot. But its heat capacity and conductive suck. If the rope is 10's of feet off the ground it would just laugh at the fire down there.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:57 AM
[/ATTACH]
I want to dispel the myth that an RPG will seriously injure your if it hits a wall with you on the other side. An RPG hit the wall I was against in 2004, went off, and all I got was a headache. This was middle eastern construction which is not the best. Now I'm not saying there is no way an RPG is going to hurt or kill you if it hits the same wall you're on, but I know that it's survivable and in my case only caused a little headache.


Fk'n Aye Looney! Glad you made it brother.

KC, I think most of us said that they couldn't hang on the the skids (since there were no such thing on the JGG).
The question about what weapons the USCG carry.. I just backed my chair up and asked the USCG Commander sitting behind me. He says the pilots carry the Sig P226 or P229R. That's .40 mil. 1625 1624
For CQB (Close quarter Battle).. or boarding missions they'll have a shotty or M4 variant. I checked out Wiki for further info (Commander wants to know why i'm asking.. not gonna say "um, Zombies." LOL) and it says the "deployable" units use and MK18, which isn't anything but a super short M16/M4. [ATTACH=CONFIG]1626 Still sweet as sh.... I'd love to get my hands on something like that. That way I don't have to relearn a weapons system. I digress.

So, No MP5's in the USCG inventory

reaper239
Feb 1st, 2012, 10:42 AM
[/ATTACH]


Fk'n Aye Looney! Glad you made it brother.

KC, I think most of us said that they couldn't hang on the the skids (since there were no such thing on the JGG).
The question about what weapons the USCG carry.. I just backed my chair up and asked the USCG Commander sitting behind me. He says the pilots carry the Sig P226 or P229R. That's .40 mil. 1625 1624
For CQB (Close quarter Battle).. or boarding missions they'll have a shotty or M4 variant. I checked out Wiki for further info (Commander wants to know why i'm asking.. not gonna say "um, Zombies." LOL) and it says the "deployable" units use and MK18, which isn't anything but a super short M16/M4. [ATTACH=CONFIG]1626 Still sweet as sh.... I'd love to get my hands on something like that. That way I don't have to relearn a weapons system. I digress.

So, No MP5's in the USCG inventory

the mk18, originally the M4 CQBR (close quarters battle reciever) has a 10.3 in barrel giving it the size of a sub-machine gun and lowering the muzzle velocity enough to make it effective in CQB. originally developed for the navy SEALS, it went through several variations, starting as a replacement upper for the SOPMOD block II and labeled the CQBR, it is now a standalone weapon system which the military has labeled the Mk18 Mod1. it's my favorite M4 variant.

also, due to the modularity of the M16/4/AR platform, you could, in theory, carry a CQBR and an 18" reciever and just swap them out on the fly.

Tandem25
Feb 1st, 2012, 12:04 PM
I wonder who else was evacuated to Fort Irwin?

When Michael asked his guard what the situation was at Fort Irwin that soldier, Private Thomas, said "It's whoever's stationed here still, sergeant. This is the place where they send..." at which point he was cut off by Corporal Puck. Send who?

Then another soldier recognizes the ID number from the helicopter? The only way a group of Army MPs would recognize a Coast Guard helicopter is if they had either seen it before or had been alerted to be on the lookout for it.

These points makes me think that Fort Irwin was an evacuation site during the outbreak. It may be the place where the Coast Guard took the first arrivals to the Colony, or maybe it was transporting high value evacuees from Los Angeles.

My personal theory is that Fort Irwin is where the government took people who were doing research into the zombies. A group from Star Labs group was evacuated out of LAX, but one helicopter, the Coast Guard Pelican, never arrived. It was carrying vital equipment/supplies/research, etc. and everyone has been alerted to look for it. The Tower survivors didn't know what the cargo on the helicopter was, and left it sitting on the pad at LAX. This necessitates a trip back to LA to retrieve the cargo.

Good theory about the chopper. My first instinct was that this was the one that their CO may have taken for recon or rescue in LA but this sounds good too. Either way, I feel like these are plausible explanations for the MP5's. The trip back to LAX would give the group the opportunity to meet up/ search fo Tower survivors.

Grognaurd
Feb 1st, 2012, 12:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DavyCrockettBomb.jpgI could go either way with the Coast Guard and MP5. They do not go together in our world, but in a story it is OK. It is not like they were using Davy Crocketts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

mem
Feb 1st, 2012, 01:28 PM
I respect the writing and the art for taking its time to let me (and mrs mem) know for sure if angel and burt are dead or alive. we also apologize for the profanities we scream at the speakers each time an episode ends and we dont know.

the mp character having a different accent than i remember hearing is one of the reasons i applaud your skills KC. It never gets canned and you do a great job of keeping things new and exciting.

Now tell me what the ****** happened to angel and burt!!!! jk :D

reaper239
Feb 1st, 2012, 01:29 PM
wait, are we talking about MPs (military police) or MP5 sub-machine guns?

Zombiphobe
Feb 1st, 2012, 02:20 PM
I enjoyed the episode and was glad to see Irwin was not overrun, but nothing is ever that easy for our heroes. You also know that whenever Pegs gets excited about a possible rescue, there's bound to be more going on than meets the eye (like at the colony). I'm curious to see what we learn from Fort Irwin. I'm very hopeful there's a connection with the Jolly Green Giant and we can see if those theories pan out.

Also Hooray for the return of Mr. Whiskers! When we next see him, he'll probably be joined by a gorilla with a baseball bat. :)

looney
Feb 1st, 2012, 02:32 PM
Swapping uppers in an environment like WA would be close to impossible. Your barrels would be impossible to keep clean, and the chamber would be full of so much stuff that you'd have constant jams. I'm not one of those "M16 variants are horrible and always jam" nut jobs either. My M4 saved my life plenty of times and I trust the AR platform since I know how to use it. But short of sealing the upper in a plastic bag to carry it around, you're just asking for a dirty chamber. I like the idea, though. It makes a very versatile fighter and eliminates an entire weapon system.

I know for a fact that our UH-60 pilots had MP5s. Granted, the JGG isn't a Blackhawk, and our pilots are US Army aviators, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the original rescue pilots for the JGG weren't Army pilots that didn't already have a bird. I'm grasping at straws with that theory, but it's not THAT crazy.

Thanks crowbar. That is in my top 5 scariest things that has ever happened to me.

dontkillburt
Feb 1st, 2012, 03:00 PM
I too am inclined to believe that the JGG was used for civilian evac by Ft. Irwin, to/from LAX most likely. Since the Tower found the helicopter shot up and with only blood and body parts (no cargo) surrounding it, there must have been a maller-type ambush, followed shortly by a surprise zombie attack pushing back or killing the maller horde, thus leaving the JGG wounded but intact.

In any case, seeing the same chopper returning to home will be an eye-opener to Ft. Irwin (except to Corp. Puck, who is not only clueless, but sounds a whole like Saul). There will be some 'splaining to do by Michael when he is asked just how they happened upon this helicopter by the CO. Up until now, Ft. Irwin certainly hasn't rolled out the red carpet for their new found refugees.

My interest still lies with the health and whereabouts of Burt of course. In trying to piece the Saul and Victor re-inactment of the fall of the tower and possible escape routes of it's tenents, I just got more confused. I think I remember that the Tower spread the zip line with grease as a defense mechanism. That would make it pretty useless for both climbing and repeling. Hopefully the zip harness brake worked for Burt in shortening his fall somehow. I doubt it did the same for Angel. I'm inclined to believe he rode the building down to the ground yet somehow survived.

Test subject 9
Feb 1st, 2012, 04:21 PM
The grease would have made it harder to climb up it but not harder to slide down. The thing I wonder about the rope is did the grease help protect it from the fire or was it the reason the rope snapped?

Hellbringer
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:37 PM
Now that I'm a drill sergeant, I know most MOSs that are common across the Army. When I was on the line, I knew 31B from seeing them around post and from WLC. Actually, before drill school I knew most MOSs that we run into at work. I agree that a lot of us don't know MOSs by alphanumeric characters, but if he didn't know he, he could have just asked.

I still call those 31Bs as 95Bs... and it takes me a minute to realize that a "modern day" is NOT a commo dude.

Yes, I'm getting old.

Hellbringer
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:45 PM
Ok, also, what if those MP5s came from some Private Security Company working on behalf of the Coast Guard as protection or a Quick Reaction Force? I have visions of the PSCs in the series Jericho popping in my head, and those Blackwater, Xe, whatever-they're-called-these-days provided gun support for State Department in Iraq. PSCs could easily have MP5s in their inventory. Just saying...

Ok, back to Battlefield 3 for now... waiting for Monday is killing me.

looney
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:49 PM
Ok, also, what if those MP5s came from some Private Security Company working on behalf of the Coast Guard as protection or a Quick Reaction Force? I have visions of the PSCs in the series Jericho popping in my head, and those Blackwater, Xe, whatever-they're-called-these-days provided gun support for State Department in Iraq. PSCs could easily have MP5s in their inventory. Just saying...

Ok, back to Battlefield 3 for now... waiting for Monday is killing me.

Also, CAG and Special Forces groups, as well as SEALs, Rangers, and most other special operations pull security for diplomats and carry MP5s in a lot of those situations. It's crazy how available those things are across the armed services.

Tyrone
Feb 1st, 2012, 11:30 PM
Another cracking episode, I hope the Ft Irwin residents don't turn out like the colony. If they need to be removed from the story because it's not very interesting if they are just chilling out perfectly safe, then please let there be some epic battle where the zombies lay siege to Ft Irwin and eventually over run it.

Still don't think Angel is alive though, I just can't see how he could be, he was on top of a building as it went down!

It does seem unlikely that he'd survive, but it'd also be very difficult, plotwise, to kill Angel just yet. There's some reason why Scratch recognizes him, I'm sure. When we find out why, it'll probably be important, and he'll probably still be around.

clem131
Feb 2nd, 2012, 03:34 AM
When Michael asked his guard what the situation was at Fort Irwin that soldier, Private Thomas, said "It's whoever's stationed here still, sergeant."
Can somebody please quickly rephrase this for me?

Paolo912
Feb 2nd, 2012, 07:27 AM
Can somebody please quickly rephrase this for me?

Whoever was at the fort when the SHTF is who is there now. We don't know anything else about who or how many yet.

Also, from his wording, it sounds like they haven't taken any casualties yet.

reaper239
Feb 2nd, 2012, 07:48 AM
Swapping uppers in an environment like WA would be close to impossible. Your barrels would be impossible to keep clean, and the chamber would be full of so much stuff that you'd have constant jams. I'm not one of those "M16 variants are horrible and always jam" nut jobs either. My M4 saved my life plenty of times and I trust the AR platform since I know how to use it. But short of sealing the upper in a plastic bag to carry it around, you're just asking for a dirty chamber. I like the idea, though. It makes a very versatile fighter and eliminates an entire weapon system.

I know for a fact that our UH-60 pilots had MP5s. Granted, the JGG isn't a Blackhawk, and our pilots are US Army aviators, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the original rescue pilots for the JGG weren't Army pilots that didn't already have a bird. I'm grasping at straws with that theory, but it's not THAT crazy.

Thanks crowbar. That is in my top 5 scariest things that has ever happened to me.

all you'd have to do to keep crud out of the reciever is wrap it in a blanket. sf teams are starting to field test a new 7.62 built exactly like the M4 with the same modularity, and they carry two different uppers (obviously one is on the gun) but basically all they do to keep the other one from getting gunked up is wrap it in a shemagh and keep it in a backpack. also i have heard that frog lube does wonders, even in a dirty reciever. also, i know i said "on the fly" (or something to that effect, i'm not looking at the post to confirm) but the switch would be made to change roles in a combat environment. so, say going from a CQB capacity with the 10.3" or even the 14" to a sniper role with the 18" isn't something you would just do. you would get into an overwatch position, and once secure, then you would switch to a sniper role. you would have another guy to support you, and then, if there was time and you weren't under GTFO protocols, you could switch back to the close quarters system. obviously this isn't perfect, but i think that it has merit as a concept and, once refined (which i think some SF units already have) would be a great way to get "on the fly" sniper support. even under sniper fire, as long as you had cover, you could switch to a counter sniper role in just a few seconds. not for on the run, but still better than carrying two weapon systems.

beezball
Feb 2nd, 2012, 09:20 AM
I still like my Riley is pregnant theory. It's so obvious.

Ra1th
Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:09 AM
I still like my Riley is pregnant theory. It's so obvious.

but if she's pregnant why is she drinking so much?

Grognaurd
Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:21 AM
One thing that has bothered Michael is lack of intel. But, his recon capability was highly restricted.

The base should also want intel. Their goal may have been to turtle. Just hunker down and ride it out. Or, they may want to recon, but remain hidden. We humans are essentially afraid of the dark. We can see better and farther in the dark than we can sitting around the a campfire or on station with a torch. These lights are easily seen from a distance. As Burt said when Latch and Scratch show up, maybe because we are the only building with the lights on? Do we think they have recon drones?

dontkillburt
Feb 2nd, 2012, 12:27 PM
but if she's pregnant why is she drinking so much?

Initially I thought, maybe it's because Riley doesn't want the baby. But, as anyone who watched "I Love Lucy" growing up, everyone knows that smokin' & drinkin' while pregnant was part of pre-natal care in the '50's. Probably won't work as an abortion option, even today, despite all the surgeon generals' warnings.

I'm still under the belief that, if there is anyone pregnant from the Tower group...it would be Pegs. She appears to have had the only record of an intimate relationship (with Michael, back at the beachhouse). To further this conspiracy, in chapter 25, part 2 at about 21:50, Pegs makes the comment to Michael about "you not getting something." Michaels's response was (drum roll please) "Now is ONE of those times?" Pegs pushes the effort in saying "It's been so long since it was you and I. I just want to to be close to you."

Oh boy. Get ready to pass the cigars Michael. Pray that it's a Burt and not just a boy.

beezball
Feb 2nd, 2012, 12:33 PM
Initially I thought, maybe it's because Riley doesn't want the baby. But, as anyone who watched "I Love Lucy" growing up, everyone knows that smokin' & drinkin' while pregnant was part of pre-natal care in the '50's. Probably won't work as an abortion option, even today, despite all the surgeon generals' warnings.

I'm still under the belief that, if there is anyone pregnant from the Tower group...it would be Pegs. She appears to have had the only record of an intimate relationship (with Michael, back at the beachhouse). To further this conspiracy, in chapter 25, part 2 at about 21:50, Pegs makes the comment to Michael about "you not getting something." Michaels's response was (drum roll please) "Now is ONE of those times?" Pegs pushes the effort in saying "It's been so long since it was you and I. I just want to to be close to you."

Oh boy. Get ready to pass the cigars Michael. Pray that it's a Burt and not just a boy.

You're right, she was trying to induce a miscarriage (Sure it might not work, but she maybe was too drunk to realize it), and all the vomit was from the morning sickness, not the entire bottle of JD. I suspect she had a fling with the talking zombie, Paul! That is my theory.

Raven
Feb 2nd, 2012, 12:41 PM
Are we totally forgetting that she also had a concussion before she made the infinitely wise decision to drink the whole bottle? Even if it was not as bad as it could have been she was mostly unconscious and rolling around in the back of a helicopter trying to make an ascent under fire. I'm kinda surprised if she won't be competing with Hope soon the way she is going.

beezball
Feb 2nd, 2012, 01:16 PM
Are we totally forgetting that she also had a concussion before she made the infinitely wise decision to drink the whole bottle? Even if it was not as bad as it could have been she was mostly unconscious and rolling around in the back of a helicopter trying to make an ascent under fire. I'm kinda surprised if she won't be competing with Hope soon the way she is going.

Genius! This pretty much confirms that she is pregnant.

Ra1th
Feb 2nd, 2012, 02:26 PM
You're right, she was trying to induce a miscarriage (Sure it might not work, but she maybe was too drunk to realize it), and all the vomit was from the morning sickness, not the entire bottle of JD. I suspect she had a fling with the talking zombie, Paul! That is my theory.

See I think this would be a really dark turn. So far, Kc has never gone into subjects this polarizing, or uncomfortable before. This kinda thing is more Walking Dead's territory. And I know he's trying everything he can to keep We're Alive's style as far away from the Walking Dead as he can.

I'll be you anything the vomiting is just a combination of the alcohol and the concussion. Besides, to get pregnant, she'd have had to have hooked up with someone, probably Angel, and so far there's been really no evidence for that either.

Leedo2502
Feb 2nd, 2012, 06:41 PM
[/ATTACH]


Fk'n Aye Looney! Glad you made it brother.

KC, I think most of us said that they couldn't hang on the the skids (since there were no such thing on the JGG).
The question about what weapons the USCG carry.. I just backed my chair up and asked the USCG Commander sitting behind me. He says the pilots carry the Sig P226 or P229R. That's .40 mil. 1625 1624
For CQB (Close quarter Battle).. or boarding missions they'll have a shotty or M4 variant. I checked out Wiki for further info (Commander wants to know why i'm asking.. not gonna say "um, Zombies." LOL) and it says the "deployable" units use and MK18, which isn't anything but a super short M16/M4. [ATTACH=CONFIG]1626 Still sweet as sh.... I'd love to get my hands on something like that. That way I don't have to relearn a weapons system. I digress.

So, No MP5's in the USCG inventory

I figured that that the USCG would have had a sub-machine gunof some type but I guess that pistols and shotguns would be fine too... good thing you didn't tell the Coast guard type that you needed the info for Zombies since the USCG is the mastermind behind the Zombie Outbreak.

Leedo2502
Feb 2nd, 2012, 06:45 PM
Now that I'm a drill sergeant, I know most MOSs that are common across the Army. When I was on the line, I knew 31B from seeing them around post and from WLC. Actually, before drill school I knew most MOSs that we run into at work. I agree that a lot of us don't know MOSs by alphanumeric characters, but if he didn't know he, he could have just asked.

Yeah I'm far from knowing any of the alphanumeric designators for most MOS but if dude told me 31B and after I said "WTF is that" I'd get the whole MP thing (and that he'd probably be a D-Bag).

On a complete aside, where are you a Drill at?

looney
Feb 2nd, 2012, 08:24 PM
Yeah I'm far from knowing any of the alphanumeric designators for most MOS but if dude told me 31B and after I said "WTF is that" I'd get the whole MP thing (and that he'd probably be a D-Bag).

On a complete aside, where are you a Drill at?

Fort Sill. It's an awful place for an Infantryman, but it's good for my career to be gender integrated. This is my first time working with females and it is crazy. I like the job even though the hours are brutal.

Big G
Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:08 PM
I gotta say when I first heard that the one soldier at ft. Irwin was named Puck I was afraid that they just walked right into the mallers' hands but after I heard KC said that they are two different people I was relieved. I am going to give it some time before I form an opinion on whether the whole ft. Irwin soldiers are good or bad

clem131
Feb 3rd, 2012, 02:05 AM
I think they will be good, or at least "reasonably" bad, meaning there will be a certain kind of discipline enforced on civilians on a stricter level compared to the Tower. I don't see it going in a "28 days later" direction simply because, well, it's been done already, and WA is usually very original :)

beezball
Feb 3rd, 2012, 06:46 AM
This is actually why I think that they will be helpful. Everyone they've met in charge has been a dick. The mallers, the colony, both were lead by jerks. I just don't want to see that again.

reaper239
Feb 3rd, 2012, 07:01 AM
I figured that that the USCG would have had a sub-machine gunof some type but I guess that pistols and shotguns would be fine too... good thing you didn't tell the Coast guard type that you needed the info for Zombies since the USCG is the mastermind behind the Zombie Outbreak.

no it's google. on zombie-forum.com a google bot admitted to making the zombie virus.

nikvoodoo
Feb 3rd, 2012, 07:18 AM
I'm thinking fair, but gruff and with dick-like qualities. <br />
<br />
Durai is calm, calculating, very cold and obviously very capable of making those around him respect him (through fear). Marcus was more...

WestonWisdom
Feb 3rd, 2012, 10:42 AM
Hitler called it.

Witch_Doctor
Apr 4th, 2012, 09:21 PM
There was a lot of hope for me in this episode. As soon as Saul and Victor found the zip line was unusually placed, I believed this was evidence for Burt surviving and being relatively okay. I was waiting for them to find a corpse and notice a .50 caliber action express bullet hole in it.

The reason for the unusual placing of the rope is that Michael pulls up the rope after Burt's fall and then he lets the rope fall to the ground. The end of the rope would have been like this \_ on the ground after Burt's fall. When Michal pulls it up then drops it the rope hangs like this |.

Ray
Apr 10th, 2012, 02:07 PM
Michael didn't have on his uniform I don't think. Some dude walks up to me after getting out of a Jolly Green Giant flown by a civilian in a world overrun by zombies, he can claim to be Liberace for...

Original_Joseph
May 8th, 2015, 03:10 PM
Woo! Just seeing Mr. Whiskers on the cover art made my day. Most of the star characters are staggeringly lucky, but I'll take it.