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nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:32 AM
So.....that happened....!!

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:33 AM
First Post!

Great Job from KC & Crew, I can't wait until the next season starts.

The sound effects were fantastic and the pacing was incredible. What a turn of events!

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:33 AM
So.....that happened....!!

No. It can't have happened. No way.

farmboy
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:34 AM
So, the season finale was considered Chap 24?

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:34 AM
its didnt happen theres no way

7oddisdead
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:34 AM
wow..we all forgot about this thing in all the exitement...

nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Sorry, gd.....totally.happened. Can someone tell me if beez cried on the kamakazi mission kalani went on?

Zombiefrog
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:36 AM
amazing epp it worked fine for me i was worried my internet would die or something but i got it and i am awaiting to download it from itunes to see what i missed

syfo
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:37 AM
I think everyone, almost, shed a tear for Kalani ;_;

Talicka
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:37 AM
This chapter has got to be the most emotional one so far. One minute I was on the edge of my seat and then the next I was crying.

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Beez said that he cried when Kevin was on the phone.

Chellefish
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:38 AM
I'm in denial.

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:38 AM
the hole episode i was on the edge of my seat

AdrianHD
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:38 AM
I <3 Scratch SO FUCKING MUCH. The Tower should never have a day off >=]

yarri
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:38 AM
I cried... I yelled I screamed.. now I'm going into withdrawls.. how long till it comes back??

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:39 AM
Okay, does anyone know who Hannah is? Since Kalani said 'someone' was his Hannah, so that means Hannah wasn't his but... someone... who I don't remember?
Anyway, this was an amazing chapter. I can't wait for a new one. And to find out who is alive who is dead and everything. *-*

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:40 AM
hannah was the red head that was on the golf corse wasnt it

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:42 AM
Okay, does anyone know who Hannah is? Since Kalani said 'someone' was his Hannah, so that means Hannah wasn't his but... someone... who I don't remember?
Anyway, this was an amazing chapter. I can't wait for a new one. And to find out who is alive who is dead and everything. *-*

Yeah I think andrew_huber is right. I think he had nothing to live for after that...do you think he might have had something with the mallers? Or was he unaware of her capture?

Talicka
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:43 AM
I wish I knew who was really really dead

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:43 AM
hannah was the red head that was on the golf corse wasnt it


Yeah I think andrew_huber is right. I think he had nothing to live for after that...do you think he might have had something with the mallers? Or was he unaware of her capture?


Did they say her name was Hannah or is that just guessing? I must have missed it. xD I just don't get what the 'She was my Hannah' meant. x__x It's bugging me.
If that girl was Hannah, then he probably was working for the Mallers, and then could have stopped since he was helping them, and so they killed the girl cause they found out he stopped working for them.
But then again, did Kalani come into the picture AFTER the traitor was already found out, as in that there was one? I'm planning on re-listening since it's been a while. xD

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:44 AM
Did they say her name was Hannah or is that just guessing? I must have missed it. xD I just don't get what the 'She was my Hannah' meant. x__x It's bugging me.

Well I can only assume Hannah was either his wife, girlfriend or daughter.

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:48 AM
OH AND I thought Lizzy was pregnant from the first throwing up. xD She has to be pregnant, or I'll be sooo disappointed. Lizzy and Saul are the most adorable thing ever. <3

Chellefish
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:51 AM
OH AND I thought Lizzy was pregnant from the first throwing up. xD She has to be pregnant, or I'll be sooo disappointed. Lizzy and Saul are the most adorable thing ever. <3
Not just that, but Saul's survival is now iffy so if he IS dead she'll have to be pregnant as a way to keep his memory intact. It's only right. lol

Th3_T3ch
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:52 AM
Oh My Pinstriped Fiend! Greatest Episode and was only complimented by the entire chapter being released at once. Saul and Victor, my feed cut out shortly after they left the hummer, are missing. Kalani went out in a blaze of heroism. Angel was blown off the top of the tower. The tower was demolished. Burt fell off before the second building. Will we find out who hannah is. Is Durai losing control of the Mallers. Is Scratch losing her second in command status. What is in Kalani's Journal. Is the rat even alive now. Lizzy is still captured. So many things are up in the air, even the chopper.

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:52 AM
OH AND I thought Lizzy was pregnant from the first throwing up. xD She has to be pregnant, or I'll be sooo disappointed. Lizzy and Saul are the most adorable thing ever. <3

when would they have had time cuz when saul was shot he was in like a coma like state most of the time

symon_r
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Well done to the whole cast and crew for a great episode.

Soo many new questions. Other than the whole who's dead and who's alive, I'm intriugued about what Angel found in Bill's desk; judging by Angel's response I think it was more than just the journal and now Scratch has "it"

Chellefish
Jul 30th, 2011, 11:58 AM
So while listening to the post-show after Burt said his quote I feel like if he made a ringtone it should be him singing "ring ring ring ring, banana phone!"

yeah? eh, eh??

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:04 PM
when would they have had time cuz when saul was shot he was in like a coma like state most of the time
Well, they could have before that or something. It wouldn't have exactly been in the podcast... Morning sickness begins around 4 or 6 weeks after getting pregnant.
Which is a whole month or so before Lizzy first threw up so, who knows when it could have happened.
I think her saying she has 2 of the people from the Tower just strengthens all the other signs; like the throwing up and Scratch being so protective of her. Cause I don't think the 2. person would just be some random unnamed person from the tower that no one noticed missing...
So the second could be the unborn baby.:o

Nick_89
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:06 PM
So I think Angel may still be alive just because if Burt is the old man then it seems like the mallers were searching the area nearby where they found Burt. Both were pretty close to each other when they went down. But that's just assuming and it would be a stretch to have Angel survive a crumbling building. Too bad angel put the journal in Hope's backpack that might have been a good reason for him to stick around.

nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:09 PM
So I think Angel may still be alive just because if Burt is the old man then it seems like the mallers were searching the area nearby where they found Burt. Both were pretty close to each other when they went down. But that's just assuming and it would be a stretch to have Angel survive a crumbling building. Too bad angel put the journal in Hope's backpack that might have been a good reason for him to stick around.


There were survivors in the rubble of the world trade center. Its very possible angel could survive the tower falling around him. Burt surviving I have a much harder time believing.

Nick_89
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:12 PM
There were survivors in the rubble of the world trade center. Its very possible angel could survive the tower falling around him. Burt surviving I have a much harder time believing.

True enough that's why I think he may still be alive but I'll wait and see. It would make sense to be Angel as he was the only character near the rubble of the building that wasn't an unnamed character. Saul and Victor I think were farther away from the rubble and Saul wasn't knocked unconscious.

cupcakezombie
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:12 PM
I think as we learnt from when we thought Durai was dead, that we should assume that everyone is alive until KC says that they are dead. Except Kalani.

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Yeh I think Burt is dead. He would have fell into the Burning tanker, possibly.

If Lizzy isn't pregnant, then maybe the old man could be someone claiming to be from the tower, like Angel initially thought,

I think Angel made it though, because he is most likely to be who Scratch was looking for,

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:14 PM
There were survivors in the rubble of the world trade center. Its very possible angel could survive the tower falling around him. Burt surviving I have a much harder time believing.

Well Burt still had the other side of the rope to hold on, or something, so it could have lessened the fall. Plus in the epilogue Scratch said, when they found someone, 'Put him with the old man.' and the only old man worth mentioning and that is BAMF enough to survive a zombie apocalypse, is Burt - in my opinion. And she also said, for the person they found, that she got what she wanted now. Which could mean that that was Angel, since him and Scratch seem to have a 'history' that he keeps denying and she keeps reminding him off. It's all just jzucgcghdbsfjkceo. It's such a long wait for a new chapter. D:

CoyRogue
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:15 PM
I got thrown off with Tonya somehow going from being unconscious and handcuffed to a bed, due to being scratched by a zombie (maybe)--to all of a sudden being at the chopper and tending Riley. I think it will be nice to see a split story between the "chopper" crew and the "ground" crew. It gives KC a lot more room to work with, especially seeing where the chopper lands, and how they may, or may not, attempt a rescue. KC just flipped the script and is allowing for far more uncertainty and less predictability. Kudos!

nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:16 PM
I think as we learnt from when we thought Durai was dead, that we should assume that everyone is alive until KC says that they are dead. Except Kalani.

who honestly thoughr durai was dead?

Explain how you can fall approximately 100 feet while prone and survive? (remember he had a harness, he should have been falling with his back to the ground)

daredevil
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:17 PM
I think Angel was on TV, because early in season 1 chapter 1 ep 2 I think, Datu said he looked familiar too and he replied exactly the same as with scratch.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:18 PM
who honestly thoughr durai was dead?

Explain how you can fall approximately 100 feet while prone and survive? (remember he had a harness, he should have been falling with his back to the ground)

He could be like Abe Simpson. "I fell 8000 feet onto a pile of jagged rocks. Of course people were tougher in those days. I was jitterbugging that very night!"

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:18 PM
I think Angel was on TV, because early in season 1 chapter 1 ep 2 I think, Datu said he looked familiar too and he replied exactly the same as with scratch.

Datu saw Angel when at the tower visiting Cindy, his girlfriend. KC confirmed that.

nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:19 PM
I think Angel was on TV, because early in season 1 chapter 1 ep 2 I think, Datu said he looked familiar too and he replied exactly the same as with scratch.

Datu saw angel in the building because of cindy living there. thats why he recognized angel.

daredevil
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:19 PM
Datu saw Angel when at the tower visiting Cindy, his girlfriend. KC confirmed that. That makes more sense. :)

daredevil
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:22 PM
I still like my idea, I think Angel would be the perfect poster boy for the army

cupcakezombie
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:25 PM
who honestly thoughr durai was dead?

Explain how you can fall approximately 100 feet while prone and survive? (remember he had a harness, he should have been falling with his back to the ground)

That KC is a crafty one, that is all I am saying. They do mention putting the unconscious one with the old one, and i don't think they would have mentioned the old one if he is dead.

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:26 PM
Kalani was the rat. In my mind this is pretty much confirmed.

AdrianHD
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:27 PM
So yeah, Kalani is prime for rat because of the Hannah situation. I can see Hannah being enough for Kalani to work towards saving. I guess it'd make sense since he was FOR the party in chapter 11. It also melds well with the theory that he killed Pippen and high tailed it out of there. That would cut the rat completely and allow for a sub-plot next season for Kevin to return and read his journal.

Burt hasn't had his time yet. He's still alive.

Pretty much I'm thinking everyone is alive aside from Kalani. They aren't going to be doing too well, but they're alright.

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:33 PM
Pretty much I'm thinking everyone is alive aside from Kalani. They aren't going to be doing too well, but they're alright.

Steven is still alive?

symon_r
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:34 PM
I got thrown off with Tonya somehow going from being unconscious and handcuffed to a bed, due to being scratched by a zombie (maybe)--to all of a sudden being at the chopper and tending Riley.

At the start of the episode Saul asked Michael how his mum was doing and it was brushed off that she was fine

Th3_T3ch
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:35 PM
I'm with GD on this one, I think Steven is dead. No point in having a red herring alive anymore. Also all the red shirts that died trying to get out of the tower, can't forget them.

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:37 PM
I'm going to have a relisten, but weren't there red shirts in both towers? What happened to the ones in the adjacent tower?

daredevil
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:38 PM
It's on iTunes right now

Pikepaw
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:39 PM
I'm all twitchy and pacing now after the live listening. Holy crap the effect this show has on me. I need to listen closely now and get all the details so I can figure out exactly what happened. Some parts just swept me away and I got confused

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Assuming Kalani was the rat, the fact that the mallers executed the red head suggests that the mallers didn't need Kalani any more, making it seem like he might have stopped being the rat. However, I don't understand why Kalani would stop doing that if there was stilll a loved one hostage.

HardKor
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:44 PM
I'm with GD on this one, I think Steven is dead. No point in having a red herring alive anymore. Also all the red shirts that died trying to get out of the tower, can't forget them.

I feel sorry for poor Lewis. Poor guy was still locked in his room playing video games as far as we know and then the Tower collapses around him.

daredevil
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:50 PM
I feel sorry for poor Lewis. Poor guy was still locked in his room playing video games as far as we know and then the Tower collapses around him. Lewis survives, he goes and finds, bill, zoey and francis and Left for Dead is born :)

AdrianHD
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Steven is still alive?
Well, important characters.

Did I miss Kelly? I'm re-listening. Was a lot to take in =P

7oddisdead
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:05 PM
a few things
1 kalani, certainly sounding ratty...but i feel very bittersweet about that. it just doesnt feel "right" to say that he was in fact the rat. his character grew into something more...sad and awesome to see him go out the way he did
2 pegs got pretty decent with the chopper pretty quickly
3 so burt may very well be alive. i know a certain people may not find burt surviving the drop believable...i say this story has zombies in it....
4 i loved this chapter...its gonna take 47 relistens to soak everything in...excellent

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:07 PM
From memory, In the Chopper are:

Michael
Pegs
Datu
Kelly
Tanya
Hope
Riley
Lady

AdrianHD
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:08 PM
Listening again, the scene were Tar, Bricks, and Scratch hear the helicopter is epic as all hell.

ICEMAN TRAVIS
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:26 PM
You know, I think I almost shaded a man tear at the end of this chapter. ow screw it I did, DONT JUGDE ME!!!

ICEMAN TRAVIS
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:31 PM
maybe because he was trying to pass himself off as being dead, that might be why the sent pipin to the tower.

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:43 PM
Lewis survives, he goes and finds, bill, zoey and francis and Left for Dead is born :)

Omg Excellent!

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:44 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this finale.

I feel kind of silly for thinking KC was gonna close some doors and answer some long awaited questions but it looks like he did the exact opposite and opened more. KC, please for the love of GOD, HOW DID MICHAEL survive the water plant incident?

AdrianHD
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:49 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this finale.

I feel kind of silly for thinking KC was gonna close some doors and answer some long awaited questions but it looks like he did the exact opposite and opened more. KC, please for the love of GOD, HOW DID MICHAEL survive the water plant incident?

I don't think there was a place to ever answer that without feeling out of place. It's not as big of a deal for now, I'd say.

symon_r
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:55 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this finale.

I feel kind of silly for thinking KC was gonna close some doors and answer some long awaited questions but it looks like he did the exact opposite and opened more. KC, please for the love of GOD, HOW DID MICHAEL survive the water plant incident?


I don't think there was a place to ever answer that without feeling out of place. It's not as big of a deal for now, I'd say.


I agree that in retrospect that question couldnt have been answered in this chapter but I think the point that this chapter created more questions than it answered is a valid one. Can't wait for the next season

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:00 PM
Just finished second listen through.

Things to point out:
Scratch doesn't want to shoot Lizzy, and I'm pretty sure she was lying when she was said it was because of the bargaining chip. This leads me to believe that Scratch possibly could have lost a child or had a miscarriage or something before this all started. Just a theory.

Scratch refers to Burt as the Old Man when talking to Tar earlier on, which is interesting as it goes towards the possibility that Burt did survive.

Riley and all the red shirts (including Steven) went down to the parking garage in an attempt to escape. Zombies got into the tower, and then it fell down. However, I doubt anyone would have let Lewis out since he was their suspect, so he could have been safe from the zombies attack, making him the most likely minor character to have a shot at surviving. You could do some real interesting fan fic on the tales of lewis though.

Things I am still unsure about:
Where did all the zombies go that were surrounding the tower? It's weird that they would do that and then go away without a mention.

Why were there no red shirts in the adjacent tower. I thought some went over to ready supplies.

EDIT: Just wondering how Kalani knew that a girl died, and that it was Hanna/Hannah. He wasn't there, and I doubt the mallers told him that it was her.

And how did Riley become unconscious, not really explained.

StickUpKid
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:07 PM
No no no no no no this cant have happend. So many cool people dead.

Can someone post who is all dead or missing and how please. all i know is burt and saul and lizzy and riley

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:09 PM
I don't think there was a place to ever answer that without feeling out of place. It's not as big of a deal for now, I'd say.

Yea I realize that too lol. My point though was that KC is deliberately structures the plot this way. I can't decide if I like his style or not anymore, but one thing is for sure: I keep coming back for more, so it must be a good style lol.

I was actually shattered into pieces when I thought they killed Lizzy. Hearing Michael apologize to Saul was heart wrenching.

I actually thought for a moment when the tanker was creeping it's way towards the tower with the fuel spilling out of the gas tank that Riley was gonna show up with a lit arrow and robin hood the shit out of that scene LMAO!

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:10 PM
No no no no no no this cant have happend. So many cool people dead.

Can someone post who is all dead or missing and how please. all i know is burt and saul and lizzy and riley

Isn't Riley in the chopper?

nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Isn't Riley in the chopper?

Yes. She is unconscious in the back of the chopper.

@GD- as I haven't had a chance to relisten (and I missed some juicy bits in the middle of the broadcast) I don't know what happened to the zombies, but the most logical choice would be the Mallers Slaughtered the "Guard Zombies" that Stephen insisted were there to help the Tower.....stupid red shirt....stupid....

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:19 PM
All minor characters (including Steven and Lewis), plus Burt, Angel and mister whiskers are dead/presumed dead.
Lizzy, Saul and Victor and missing but are unlikely to be dead.
Michael, Pegs, Datu, Kelly, Tanya, Hope, Riley and Lady are all in the chopper.
Oh and Kalani is toast.

cupcakezombie
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:26 PM
The questions I have after my second listen (mostly Kalani related).
How does Kalani know that the red head was his Hannah?
Why does Kalani apologise for the tyre? Did he make it blow on purpose so that the wouldn't be able to take supplies back?
Is the second person that Scratch wants the rat? She would want the rat because she wasn't told about the helicopter and that changed everything.
Potentials for who it is Saul, Victor, Angel. Maybe as a LONG shot Kalani. On re-listen we don't actually know for sure Kalani died and he could be the messed up one they find at the end.
Very long shot I know!

itsallgoodie
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:27 PM
no way i have time right now to read through all 8 pages that have been made in the brief couple of hours after the show was aired but all i know is;

Lizzy is/was preggers!!!! tell brotha tell yo sista tell yo whole family.

7oddisdead
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:33 PM
GD
When kalani brought Michael and co. Back to the tower,the events of the golf coarse could have been told to him (I do t like that, but maybe) that's how he would know of hanna/hannah

7oddisdead
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:38 PM
no way i have time right now to read through all 8 pages that have been made in the brief couple of hours after the show was aired but all i know is;

Lizzy is/was preggers!!!! tell brotha tell yo sista tell yo whole family.

I'm starting to get annoyed that my "crackpot" predictions are "almost" right

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:38 PM
GD
When kalani brought Michael and co. Back to the tower,the events of the golf coarse could have been told to him (I do t like that, but maybe) that's how he would know of hanna/hannah

It is possible, but if they just said that a red head was there instead of Lizzy, it seems to be a bit of a stretch to assume its someone you know and go blow yourself up for it just because of having the same hair colour.

7oddisdead
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:48 PM
It is possible, but if they just said that a red head was there instead of Lizzy, it seems to be a bit of a stretch to assume its someone you know and go blow yourself up for it just because of having the same hair colour.

agree completely ...hmm. I feel a blog coming on

Zombiefrog
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:51 PM
maybe kalani was warned that if he did not help "his hannah" would be killed, in the draw is the "other type" of radio that the mailers use to talk without the people in the tower hearing. and that is how he was blackmailed. he was told to not bring the supplies back to the tower so got the flat. would scratch know lizzy was pregnant? showing test how? or could it be skittles maybe he rambled something about the tower people and scratch thinks he is with them?

Austin king
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:51 PM
whos hannah I was so confused

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:52 PM
I would see the most likely explanation being that Scratch has been telling him that she will kill her ever since he stopped calling. Kalani probably had an internal crisis, having to decide between Hannah and the tower. Maybe he changed sides when he had that moment with Angel and killing the big one. I think there could be something to cupcakes theory of him busting the tyre on purpose. Kalani being the rat could explain why he was brown nosing Burt alot earlier on too.

Austin king
Jul 30th, 2011, 02:54 PM
Im just what to know who do you think was the 2nd person kidnapped

mush_rooms
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:01 PM
Okay so there's just a few things I wanted to note that I didn't get a chance to touch on during the live broadcast:

1.) Steven getting decked in the face was my favorite part of the entire finale. "Wha happened...?" "YOU RAN INTO THE WALL STFU" Lol-ing forever.
2.) Pegs has turned into a total badass, the part in which she tells Datu and then later Michael (!!!) to shut up and how forceful she is in her new power-position...I love it! Girl power and all that jazz, yknow!
3.) I'm fairly certain that StepLaugh and I bruised each others hands we were squeezing each other so hard during the golf course scene. There have been some emotional moments during this podcast...but DAMN. Speechless.

I'm not one to theorize too much right now, there are so many things up in the air (see what I did there...lol don't judge me) but I'm going to echo what a lot of others have been saying:

No one is dead until KC says so. Nothing is certain. The only people that I 100% believe died today were the decoy Lizzy (Hannah???) and decoy mallers at the golf course. Mallers' world's got totally rocked by our heroes, I'm glad none of our good guys got caught in the crossfire! :]

Oh P.S: Saul and Lizzy totally got it on. Baby incoming.

-Sarah

Austin king
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:05 PM
So I think kalani story was cut short I think more of his story couldhave been told. But I will say this this episode blew my mind I cried like 5 times. I thought what was so cool there was so much happening it felt so real I was nervous too.

Wayfarer
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:06 PM
Okay, I'm not sure if someone has already pointed this out but I'll give it a go.

This is my responce to questions of whether or not the characters are still alive:

I'm a considerably long time listener but first time responder.

I love 'We're Alive'. But, let's be honest, the main characters in 'We're Alive' are lucky. There is no way in hell they would have survived in a real zombie apocalypse much less in this one up until this point especially with some of the things they've done (running through a horde to fix an inoperable army vehicle, going into the zombies' layer to rescue one person, etc...). They definately have a writer on their side, it's the only way.

But besides this fact, there is one other thing that let's me know that a certain character is going to be okay...

Whenever they take up the narraration.

This entire adventure is supposedly being read from a journal. When a character in this series describes events from their unique perspective it implies that at some point they have enough time to sit/lay down long enough to write this stuff down.

Even at the exact moment when I heard Burt drop below I knew he survived well enough because of the fact that he was describing how he covered Saul.

Sure, there always is this fear in the back of my head that they'll find these journals next to their dead bodies or something similiar (like with Samantha), but here was simply not the case as it was unlikely that these characters wrote these things down during the event.

There is still much suspense factor in it for me but for the most part I can pretty much tell these certain characters were going to be alright.

Austin king
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:07 PM
Kalani if he lives that will just blow my mind

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:07 PM
Guys, Hanna could just be a girl Kalani loved, whether girlfriend, wife or daughter. KC has that way of writing - as far as I've seen - that makes you think one thing and then something else entirely is true. First off, Kalani was in that tower number 2. It is never said that Tower number 2 ever even met the Mallers nor that the Mallers got into contact with them because they would have probably wanted their tower over this one since supposedly it was better secured. That tower got attacked by zombies and he ended in the arena. Now what kind of chance was there that he would land, from the zombie toying-with-humans-and-eating them arena, into the tower that the Mallers wanted/had planned a spy. How would he even know he had something the Mallers wanted after almost a month in the Arena?
Moreover, how would he get into contact with them and plan everything in the, what, 1 day or so that he was in the Tower before the 'war' that first uncovered the snitch, happened? How would he know what channel to use? Keep in mind he had been in the arena for about a month or so. Plus, I don't really remember the Mallers taking any 'slaves' before this season. They just seemed to stick to their own plans and raiding and the Mall.
Hanna, could just be someone he lost. It doesn't mean he had to lose her now, it could have been earlier. Not everyone becomes suicidal the very moment they lose a loved one. He might have just wanted to save his friends.
Sure there are a lot of questions and he is a bit shady about his past, but that doesn't instantly point to him being the traitor or having any relation to the red-head girl that got shot.

Oh and

Maybe as a LONG shot Kalani. On re-listen we don't actually know for sure Kalani died and he could be the messed up one they find at the end.
Very long shot I know!

SADLY, Kalani is most definitely dead. You can look at his profile : http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Kalani
Says; 'Current Status: Deceased'
I doubt he could resurrect or that they just put it there as a 'for now' thing. Usually when they put it under a character, they're dead.
So sadly, he is too. He was growing on me. :(

These are my musings. :D

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:15 PM
The wiki has been edited by a member of the forums, and they know as much as anyone else. In general flying a helicopter into a truck filled with gas is something you won't walk away from, so it is just an assumption.

I'm definately up for a Kalani flashback when they read his journal. It is a great opuurtunity to find out about all details of what was going on there.

Grognaurd
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:37 PM
Here is my Burt Block

Burt is on the zip line. The greatest point of stress will be at the rider. If the rope snaps there, the rider falls. If breaks somewhere else, the rider can clamp down on the hand break and do a Tarzan, right? So, right now I see Burt, do the Tarzan-Thang into the side of the building and getting to one of the balconies. Balconies and breaking ropes are getting to be a habbit.

Angel sees the rope break and repels down the side of the building. He didn't get all ay down so he gets buggerd up. Too bad he was not cool enough to do it Austalian-style.

I said it before, I gotta sit that boy Saul down for a talking to. His tacticts suck! He has had 24 hours to think about it and the best he can think of is trying to double cross an ambush setup by the enemy? Hey diddle diddle straight up the middle onto an enemy-prepared position is loco

Don Man
Jul 30th, 2011, 03:45 PM
OK wow just wow amazing job by everyone. This episode had me hold my mouth with shock and i could feel tears coming on, the areas this happened was, the fake lizzy dieing,Kalani's suicide(maybe) and Angel still being on top of the tower while it crumbled. My opinion is that no main characters died Angel is still alive i think and I think Burt is aswel not because of the after credits part but because the rope snapping. COME ON! that would be one of the cheapest deaths in this show. Just to say i think people are jumping the gun on the whole Hannah thing maybe I was paying much attention but at no point did I hea that the chick at the gold course was called Hannah. One last thing i think it was a really good idea to put the little music things inbetween some of the parts it really let me soak all that had happened. Grwta job KC and cant wait for season 3

mythicgr66
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:07 PM
Burt and Angel are ALIVE!!!!!!!!! listen to after the credits you here a short clip between the bitch Scratch and the asshole Tardust, then another maller finds a member of the tower alive but very badly hurt and she tells him to but him with the old man (AKA Burt), haha burt did a tarzan or an indiana jones, it all happenes in the last 2mins of the podcast, on the live stream listen to it on around 81mins

Paola
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:08 PM
I feel sorry for poor Lewis. Poor guy was still locked in his room playing video games as far as we know and then the Tower collapses around him.
Hahahahaha that made me laugh.

GD_Elite
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:10 PM
I just noticed, that just before the Hummer shows up on the scene,~37:30 Scratch says to Angel, "Good bye, Old...."(interrupted). I think this could have been her about to say Old Friend. I think she has remembered how she knows him, and this makes it seem like she might want to keep him alive for it.

Also, do we know which chopper crashed and which one survived?

Paola
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:17 PM
So.....I definitely got a little misty eyed. :( why Kalani?!? Why?!?! I think he might have been the rat but then again he was locked up in the arena. Then when he got to the tower how would he have known Hannah was with the mallers? Unless there was alot of asking around or some long back story with it. The 'he wanted to keep Hannah alive so he was the rat' theory is reasonable too I guess. Burt & angel are alive right? A lot of it confused me. Saul & Lizzy? The Mallers?? I hate cliffhangers....

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Also, do we know which chopper crashed and which one survived?

Pretty sure the big medical one crashed, because it was the only fly-able one. Pegs and Datu were still working on the other one - thus arrived late, or just in time - depends how you see it. xD

nikvoodoo
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:24 PM
For the surprising amount of individuals who believe Kalani is alive (not surprising you think he's alive, I just honestly didn't think he had that many fans around here), I'm sorry but I can't even imagine how he could survive piloting a helicopter into a tanker truck, surviving the impact of that collision, and the subsequent fire....hmmm....not looking so hot....or actually it is. It's looking very hot....and very on fire....

Nazario Jose Lopez
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:24 PM
So for sure... Victor, Saul, and Lizzy are alive... the two found... "the old man" MUST be Burt and other one MUST be Angel.... I'm depressed now.. :'(

LittleSurvivor
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:24 PM
Also, do we know which chopper crashed and which one survived?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the one from the hospital is toast - I guess there are a lot more clues, but when Pegs flies off she says "I wasn't trained on this" and before we heard that she was off with Kalani for training with the "bird" from the hospital (since the other one was still being repaired by Dato).

LittleSurvivor
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Taking a long look into the future - when We're Alive is back (and that feels soooo long), I wonder: Did anyone grab some supplies?I mean it was all packed, but if nobody grabbed anything then how will they do it? The ammunition they had on them got pretty much used up in the fight, so how are they gonna create a save base at least ('cause they'll sure come back - for Saul and Victor alone, of whom they know, that they're probably alive) without ammunition, food, water, fuel or anything else...?

AdrianHD
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:43 PM
For the surprising amount of individuals who believe Kalani is alive (not surprising you think he's alive, I just honestly didn't think he had that many fans around here), I'm sorry but I can't even imagine how he could survive piloting a helicopter into a tanker truck, surviving the impact of that collision, and the subsequent fire....hmmm....not looking so hot....or actually it is. It's looking very hot....and very on fire....

This.
Along with such a climatic death, him rising from the ashes would be a buzz kill. He's dead. Someone had to bite the bullet.

ryanlm09
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:45 PM
So, Angel is gonna be a slave to the Mallers

Nazario Jose Lopez
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:46 PM
So, Angel is gonna be a slave to the Mallers

O_O'

mush_rooms
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:56 PM
So, Angel is gonna be a slave to the Mallers

...hehehehehe...I'm okay with this...

Nazario Jose Lopez
Jul 30th, 2011, 04:57 PM
Kalani said something about a girl right...? What girl......? KC I DEMAND AN ANSWER!

mythicgr66
Jul 30th, 2011, 05:02 PM
That episode is stuck in my head and moved me so much i had to donate, so here is my $25 for the kalani Tower Fund (Listen to the aftershow of the live steam to get the referance), kalani you will be missed, i just wish i could of been in the chopter with you, listening to Highway to Hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs

Walrusgus
Jul 30th, 2011, 05:03 PM
Thank god iTunes actually downloaded the episode for once... I could not wait any longer. Better go listen!

Nazario Jose Lopez
Jul 30th, 2011, 05:04 PM
Thank god iTunes actually downloaded the episode for once... I could not wait any longer. Better go listen!

Spoilers: Scratch keeps being a bitch and Tar is still a rapist.

mythicgr66
Jul 30th, 2011, 05:30 PM
Spoilers: Scratch keeps being a bitch and Tar is still a rapist.

like no S**t

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Spoilers: Scratch keeps being a bitch and Tar is still a rapist.


lol that actually made me laugh

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:17 PM
I re-listened while at the beach today on my mp3 player. I have some new thoughts to share.

If Kalani was referring to the girl who died at the golf course I don't think he literally means her name is Hannah/Hanna, her refers to her as "my hannah". I'm pretty sure I've heard friends and family used the term "hanna" to refer to any girl that is important to them or of interest. So maybe the girl at the golf course was his wife/girlfriend/daughter or something else of significant importance.

Don't we also know that Kalani brought Michael and Burt back to the tower in a helicopter? Plenty of time to let Kalani know what had transpired at the golf course.

If that's true, then I can't help but feel that Kalani was indeed the rat. We now know Pippen was indeed another spy and perhaps Kalani understood that tatic. Is there any evidence to show that Kalani could have pulled off the killing? Perhaps Kalani realized that the mallers realizd Kalani is helping the tower out now instead of being the mole/spy, thus the reason for killing "hanna"

He also mentioned to Angel that he wanted him to have his Journal and where did he store this journal? In someone elses desk (Bills desk, a nice safe place to hide a confession) if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps he knew someday that he might perish and he would hope to explain his whole part.

I'm pretty confident that Kalani was the spy.

I think he got tangled up and ended up in the Arena and then was saved by happenstance.

I think when he got to the tower he played it cool to see what the Tower was all about.

I think on one of his night shifts on guard duty he managed to relay some messages back to the Mallers and they told him to spy on the Tower or they would kill his "hannah".

He did play his part as spy for a while but I think after Angel and Kalani bonded I think he had a change of heart.

His apology to Angel about the tire on the hummer could be referencing his deceased apology from the grave to let Angel know he either did it on purpose or didn't take the mission seriously enough, but either way felt bad about it for one reason or another.

His Hannah died, and he wanted to die as well, possibly also to save his comrades (maybe another part of his sincere apology).

Completely unrelated to Kalani, I half heartedly thought the second person Scratch claimed to have from the tower was "Skittles" ... it would certainly put a strange twist on it wouldn't it.

Bravo Team Leader
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:36 PM
Oh man I was doing the landscaping and was listening to the episode . At the end I was just amazed how good the Chapter was even though my Man Burt got killed.
I think the talent doing all the effects and sound are going above and beyond what a normal Podcast should be. They set the bar high on this one..

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:38 PM
Oh man I was doing the landscaping and was listening to the episode . At the end I was just amazed how good the Chapter was even though my Man Burt got killed.
I think the talent doing all the effects and sound are going above and beyond what a normal Podcast should be. They set the bar high on this one..

So true man. Everyone here is pretty confident Burt is still kicking lol.

StickUpKid
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:46 PM
yea not a shot in hell would they kill burt. i cant believe they killed off so many characthers

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:49 PM
yea not a shot in hell would they kill burt. i cant believe they killed off so many characthers

The only character they for sure killed off in my mind is the lady at the golf course, although I presume even the master script writer KC himself couldn't write out a plausible escape for Kalani, so he's pretty much written off for me too. What a fantastic heroic death. I'm really into We're Alive, KC and the whole team, you f***ing rock.

HardKor
Jul 30th, 2011, 06:59 PM
I just noticed, that just before the Hummer shows up on the scene,~37:30 Scratch says to Angel, "Good bye, Old...."(interrupted). I think this could have been her about to say Old Friend. I think she has remembered how she knows him, and this makes it seem like she might want to keep him alive for it.

Angel also seemed really pissed about being called "blonde boy." Much more than he should have been. Maybe it was pet a name Scratch had for him in his younger years and he didn't want to be reminded of it.

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:00 PM
Angel also seemed really pissed about being called "blonde boy." Much more than he should have been. Maybe it was pet a name Scratch had for him in his younger years and he didn't want to be reminded of it.

If Angel had some kind of criminal record how would he have gotten into the Army to become an officer?

HardKor
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:02 PM
If Angel had some kind of criminal record how would he have gotten into the Army to become an officer?
Not all criminals get caught.

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:06 PM
Not all criminals get caught.

That's very true *shifty eyes* lol. So do you think Angel and Scar face used to hang out together or something? You think she would have postponed telling the whole Tower that this whole time?

Laura
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:15 PM
Time to join the conversation.

I think Scratch did something horrible to Angel when he was younger. Abuse, maybe? Just throwing ideas out there. I really have no idea how old Scratch is.

The way I see it, we're going to hear Kalani's voice ONE more time in the first episode of season three, and it's going to be his journal. I really don't think he's alive, unfortunately. Shame, because right before I listened to the episode, I thought about how I really liked Kalani after hating him for a long time. As for Angel and Burt, y'all said it: they're not dead to me until I hear some confirmation. You have to look at Kc's style, and his style tells me they're alive, albeit very, very, VERY injured.

Also, loved the Angel-Riley interaction. I hope she wakes up, but I'm afraid of how she'll react when she looks around that chopper and doesn't see her Angel there...

Paola
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Just a thought...when scratch was talking to tardust, I thought he sounded a little bit like skittles, or was it just me?? He even stuttered a little bit when he talked to scratch. But then why wouldn't he stutter, scratch is a little scary.

HardKor
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:23 PM
That's very true *shifty eyes* lol. So do you think Angel and Scar face used to hang out together or something? You think she would have postponed telling the whole Tower that this whole time?

I think Angel may have been a kid out looking for a thrill. Michael described him as looking like a "rich kid." I don't know if he really is or if Michael was just insulting him but it would make sense if Angel ran out looking for a thrill and then let mommy and daddy shell out the cash to keep his record clear. Then he decided he wanted to make something of himself and joined the Army and went to officer training.
As for Scratch keeping quiet: She does seem like the "dish best served cold" type. Not wanting to tip her hand until she can get the most out of it.

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:23 PM
I think when he got to the tower he played it cool to see what the Tower was all about.

I think on one of his night shifts on guard duty he managed to relay some messages back to the Mallers and they told him to spy on the Tower or they would kill his "hannah".


I thought the same as you did at first. But then I remembered Kalani's past. For example this is the second chapter he is seen in, and the first chapter that he is in the Tower. The first one in which he appears being the purgatory.
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=11+-+Rest+and+Recreation
In this, it had literally been one night and two days, before the 'traitor' had first been discovered, from the arrival of Kalani to the tower for the first time. After being in the Arena for about a month, prior to being in the Other Tower for 3 days before that, and then in Hawaii and some sort of hotel before the tower.
I don't see how he could have come into contact with the Mallers - even if he got his hands onto a radio, would he know their channel? Would they keep it the same? Since it had to have been at least a month since he had last spoken to them - or so. How would they organize such a large attack in a single day? And another thing. If the Mallers held 'his Hanna' as ransom for him to do their bidding, and he disappeared for a month, with no word, probably dead, why the hell would they keep 'his Hanna' alive?
Perhaps, if he does end up being the traitor, those will remain one of those unanswered questions in this podcast.
Those are pretty much the only reasons I believe Kalani wasn't the spy.
I think it might have been someone who had arrived in that second batch of people - the first being Michael and the gang + Lizzy.
It's all just making me so curious...

Laura
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:31 PM
I thought the same as you did at first. But then I remembered Kalani's past. For example this is the second chapter he is seen in, and the first chapter that he is in the Tower. The first one in which he appears being the purgatory.
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=11+-+Rest+and+Recreation
In this, it had literally been one night and two days, before the 'traitor' had first been discovered, from the arrival of Kalani to the tower for the first time. After being in the Arena for about a month, prior to being in the Other Tower for 3 days before that, and then in Hawaii and some sort of hotel before the tower.
I don't see how he could have come into contact with the Mallers - even if he got his hands onto a radio, would he know their channel? Would they keep it the same? Since it had to have been at least a month since he had last spoken to them - or so. How would they organize such a large attack in a single day? And another thing. If the Mallers held 'his Hanna' as ransom for him to do their bidding, and he disappeared for a month, with no word, probably dead, why the hell would they keep 'his Hanna' alive?
Perhaps, if he does end up being the traitor, those will remain one of those unanswered questions in this podcast.
Those are pretty much the only reasons I believe Kalani wasn't the spy.
I think it might have been someone who had arrived in that second batch of people - the first being Michael and the gang + Lizzy.
It's all just making me so curious...

Good point. It better not be an unanswered question BECAUSE I WANT TO KNOW! I think after we find out who Hannah is and what was in that journal, we'll understand.

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:33 PM
I thought the same as you did at first. But then I remembered Kalani's past. For example this is the second chapter he is seen in, and the first chapter that he is in the Tower. The first one in which he appears being the purgatory.
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=11+-+Rest+and+Recreation
In this, it had literally been one night and two days, before the 'traitor' had first been discovered, from the arrival of Kalani to the tower for the first time. After being in the Arena for about a month, prior to being in the Other Tower for 3 days before that, and then in Hawaii and some sort of hotel before the tower.
I don't see how he could have come into contact with the Mallers - even if he got his hands onto a radio, would he know their channel? Would they keep it the same? Since it had to have been at least a month since he had last spoken to them - or so. How would they organize such a large attack in a single day? And another thing. If the Mallers held 'his Hanna' as ransom for him to do their bidding, and he disappeared for a month, with no word, probably dead, why the hell would they keep 'his Hanna' alive?
Perhaps, if he does end up being the traitor, those will remain one of those unanswered questions in this podcast.
Those are pretty much the only reasons I believe Kalani wasn't the spy.
I think it might have been someone who had arrived in that second batch of people - the first being Michael and the gang + Lizzy.
It's all just making me so curious...

He could have just fabricated his past?

Well who's to say that he went silent for a month? Perhaps he was still communicating with them the whole time. Perhaps he even lied to them a bunch to tip the odds in favour of the Tower crew?

Damn it, I need to get my hands (or rather ears in this case!) on that journal!

See know for sure that Hannah dying meant something to Kalani. We know for sure Pippen was indeed a spy. And we know for sure someone purposely killed Pippen in stealth. I'm not sure how else the dots can be connected. The Mallers had leverage against Kalani via Hannah, whether or not they were aware of that fact is an assumption I'm making to complete the connection but they did for sure have leverage over Kalani.

Still not really feeling the whole Angel / Scratch thing. Angel has always seemed a bit of a baby to me. I can't see him doing anything remotely criminal that Scratch would also be doing.

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:42 PM
He could have just fabricated his past?

Well who's to say that he went silent for a month? Perhaps he was still communicating with them the whole time. Perhaps he even lied to them a bunch to tip the odds in favour of the Tower crew?

Damn it, I need to get my hands (or rather ears in this case!) on that journal!

See know for sure that Hannah dying meant something to Kalani. We know for sure Pippen was indeed a spy. And we know for sure someone purposely killed Pippen in stealth. I'm not sure how else the dots can be connected. The Mallers had leverage against Kalani via Hannah, whether or not they were aware of that fact is an assumption I'm making to complete the connection but they did for sure have leverage over Kalani.


He could have made up some of his past - obviously not the being a pilot one. So let's assume the Hawaii part is true also.
But he definitely could not have been in contact with them for that month, ROFL. He was in the Arena... Did you forget the whole purgatory chapter? They barely had food there. Even if he had a way to communicate with them, it did not look likely that he would live, and no one could have known that the people from the Tower would come to Datu's rescue. So I think communicating for that month, within the Arena, wasn't possible. And that still leaves how he would get the news out to the Mallers at the one night he was there, I doubt anyone would let him use the walkie-talkie or whatever, seeing as he had JUST got here, and it's not an extremely trusting crowd.
Hanna, obviously was someone he loved. Though why are we all jumping the gun assuming she was the red-head? If something that important had happened we would hear Michael saying what happened in the chopper or something. She could have been someone he lost a while ago, perhaps in the Arena as well, perhaps before. Maybe he was responsible for her death or felt responsible, so he wanted to 'pay back' by sacrificing himself.
There are so many 'what if's' in Kalani's case, and SO many unanswered questions that I think we'll need a whole chapter just called 'Kalani's Journal' if we ever want answers to all of them. xD
At least I can't wait to find out the main parts. As in if he was the traitor, and who Hanna was. And if he was the traitor I'll just have all these 'HOW?' questions, as I said now.

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 07:47 PM
He could have made up some of his past - obviously not the being a pilot one. So let's assume the Hawaii part is true also.
But he definitely could not have been in contact with them for that month, ROFL. He was in the Arena... Did you forget the whole purgatory chapter? They barely had food there. Even if he had a way to communicate with them, it did not look likely that he would live, and no one could have known that the people from the Tower would come to Datu's rescue. So I think communicating for that month, within the Arena, wasn't possible. And that still leaves how he would get the news out to the Mallers at the one night he was there, I doubt anyone would let him use the walkie-talkie or whatever, seeing as he had JUST got here, and it's not an extremely trusting crowd.
Hanna, obviously was someone he loved. Though why are we all jumping the gun assuming she was the red-head? If something that important had happened we would hear Michael saying what happened in the chopper or something. She could have been someone he lost a while ago, perhaps in the Arena as well, perhaps before. Maybe he was responsible for her death or felt responsible, so he wanted to 'pay back' by sacrificing himself.
There are so many 'what if's' in Kalani's case, and SO many unanswered questions that I think we'll need a whole chapter just called 'Kalani's Journal' if we ever want answers to all of them. xD
At least I can't wait to find out the main parts. As in if he was the traitor, and who Hanna was. And if he was the traitor I'll just have all these 'HOW?' questions, as I said now.

Are you saying Kalani only briefed the tower for one night before the big attack? If so, I completely over-looked that key factor. I would have a hard time imagining they planned the attack on such short notice as well and I certainly don't presume Kalani was speaking with the Mallers whilst in the Arena.

I also think I need to re-listen to Kalani's last moments but I could have sworn I thought he mentioned the golf course and Hanna in the same sentence.

HardKor
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:00 PM
He could have made up some of his past - obviously not the being a pilot one. So let's assume the Hawaii part is true also.
But he definitely could not have been in contact with them for that month, ROFL. He was in the Arena... Did you forget the whole purgatory chapter? They barely had food there. Even if he had a way to communicate with them, it did not look likely that he would live, and no one could have known that the people from the Tower would come to Datu's rescue. So I think communicating for that month, within the Arena, wasn't possible. And that still leaves how he would get the news out to the Mallers at the one night he was there, I doubt anyone would let him use the walkie-talkie or whatever, seeing as he had JUST got here, and it's not an extremely trusting crowd.
Hanna, obviously was someone he loved. Though why are we all jumping the gun assuming she was the red-head? If something that important had happened we would hear Michael saying what happened in the chopper or something. She could have been someone he lost a while ago, perhaps in the Arena as well, perhaps before. Maybe he was responsible for her death or felt responsible, so he wanted to 'pay back' by sacrificing himself.
There are so many 'what if's' in Kalani's case, and SO many unanswered questions that I think we'll need a whole chapter just called 'Kalani's Journal' if we ever want answers to all of them. xD
At least I can't wait to find out the main parts. As in if he was the traitor, and who Hanna was. And if he was the traitor I'll just have all these 'HOW?' questions, as I said now.

There seem to be some big pros and cons for Kalani being the rat.
Pros:
1) Hannah being held by the Mallers is definite leverage over him. And it does seem pretty clear she was the one killed at the golf course. Otherwise why would Kalani go berserk at that moment as opposed to before? And she was the only significant death in the chapter at that point.
2) Kalani leaving something in Bill's desk just makes us all think "rat" since Bill was the presumed rat in the beginning.
3) Kalani leaving something in Bill's desk also means he was hiding something.

Cons:
1) Scratch mentioning that the Mallers have two Tower residents. She would have known the decoy team was going to kill the girl at the golf course (I doubt they would have done that without her say so and risked her wrath) so the other person couldn't be "Hannah" which mean there might be another hostage the Mallers have been using as leverage. Kalani might not have know the Mallers had Hannah until she was killed.
2) Tardust mentioned a girl when talking about Pippin making contact. And it seems to insinuate a female rat.

Seriously all this "who's the rat?" stuff is making me cross-eyed :p

cerealkiller
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:13 PM
Haha, it's making me cross-eyed too. xD
Do we even know for sure his Hanna is the red-head? Does he mention jer name and the golf court in the same sentance?
And yeah, he only had one night in the tower, before the Mallers attacked. The traitor had apparently already said everything about the Tower people to the Mallers, and did Kalani really know them enough in that one night to tell the Mallers what they would need to know for tomorrow night?
I don't know. It's all possible. I just want answers. xD I'm the type of person that wants a beliavable outcome to every situation that can be explained. Sadly that doesn't seem KC's style. Damn him. xD

Another thing that just crossed my mind, is whether Samantha( was that Hope mom's name?) had said Kalani had been in the Arena longer than her or that they arrived together?!
Cause if he arrived sooner he couldn't have been from the Other Tower since Samantha definitely was, and the stories he told could have been just told to him by Sam. Then again Datu was there, but he was also very distraught, so I don't know if he would remember such a detail. He could have been sent to the arena to investigate, ause they were planning to blow it up.
That's only if Sam said he had come there before her. xD
GAAAAH. I just really need this journal.

Also the second person Scratch was talking about could just have been Lizzy's baby, in case she really is pregnant like it seems. :'D

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:32 PM
If Angel had some kind of criminal record how would he have gotten into the Army to become an officer?

saul has a criminal record to and he got in and when angel and when kalani and angel went on that mission for food kalani always mentioned how angel was good at steeling cars

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:40 PM
saul has a criminal record to and he got in and when angel and when kalani and angel went on that mission for food kalani always mentioned how angel was good at steeling cars

But isn't there a huge difference between being an officer and just being a specialist? I figured to be some kind of leader in the military means having a clean criminal record, I sure hope it's that way at least lol, but isn't that part of the inside joke that Angel and Saul used to argue about (him being an officer and Saul just being a specialist).

I don't personally recall him saying he stole cars but was referring to the fact that Angel knows how to hot wire a car. I know how to hot wire some cars, but I'm not necessarily a criminal, I just come from a family of mechanics. Could you reference that particular point in which episode, I should re-listen to that part as I don't recall it ever being blatantly said that Angel had actually stolen a car.

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:42 PM
I don't know. It's all possible. I just want answers. xD I'm the type of person that wants a beliavable outcome to every situation that can be explained. Sadly that doesn't seem KC's style. Damn him. xD

Now that you mention it... what if KC is NEVER PLANNING to tell us wtf happened to Michaels arm ?!o.O!?

andrew_huber
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:50 PM
I don't recall it ever being blatantly said that Angel had actually stolen a car.

i dont think he ever blatantly accuses angel of stealing a car

zombiederek
Jul 30th, 2011, 08:58 PM
Is it possible that he didnt fall, but was able to grab the rope and do a sort of Tarzan swing to the other building? He could have crashed through a window and just got knocked out. I just dont think KC would have killed Burt so easily like that. I am 100% certain he will be back in season 3 maybe to help Lizzy escape the mallers

wh33t
Jul 30th, 2011, 09:03 PM
Is it possible that he didnt fall, but was able to grab the rope and do a sort of Tarzan swing to the other building? He could have crashed through a window and just got knocked out. I just dont think KC would have killed Burt so easily like that. I am 100% certain he will be back in season 3 maybe to help Lizzy escape the mallers

I dunno, I find it quite believable that Burt could be written off like that. I've seen that kind of end to a character before in movies. I do want him to come back though and I really thought Saul was going to get Lizzy back in time before the episode was over.

BabySniffer
Jul 30th, 2011, 10:04 PM
It would be kinda of funny, in a sinical way, if Burt was to die, not that I want him to mind you.

Ra1th
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:20 AM
saul has a criminal record to and he got in and when angel and when kalani and angel went on that mission for food kalani always mentioned how angel was good at steeling cars

Saul is enlisted, Angel is an officer, there's a difference.

wh33t
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:28 AM
Saul is enlisted, Angel is an officer, there's a difference.

Would you mind elaborating on the difference? I'm a military noob.

Ra1th
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:34 AM
Would you mind elaborating on the difference? I'm a military noob.

Background checks for officers are very heavy. You're record has to be spotless to get into officer candidate school. Officers are also required to have at the minimum, a bachelors degree. With enlisted soldiers the standards aren't so high, background checks arent as harsh, and I don't believe there is an educational requirement.

If Angel had a criminal record, he wouldn't have been able to become an officer. But like someone said before, you only get a criminal record if you get caught.

wh33t
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:38 AM
Background checks for officers are very heavy. You're record has to be spotless to get into officer candidate school. Officers are also required to have at the minimum, a bachelors degree. With enlisted soldiers the standards aren't so high, background checks arent as harsh, and I don't believe there is an educational requirement.

If Angel had a criminal record, he wouldn't have been able to become an officer. But like someone said before, you only get a criminal record if you get caught.

Awesome! Thanks for clarifying man.

Zombiehead
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:59 AM
I can't wait to write about this one. As I thought, there was more than one person setting off the events in the Tower. I always had my suspicions someone was being held hostage to use as leverage against the informant. Pippin turned out to be a mole after all, except he was Scratch's personal mole. Speaking of Scratch, its nice to finally see what her character is really like. If the episode hadn't ended where it did, I would have developed a girl-crush on her.

What a nice way to get rid of all the extras and keep the main cast around. I think at least one of the two boys is alive. Burt could have very well grabbed onto a balcony of the tower if he held onto the rope on the way down. I don't know how Angel could have survived but I don't see him going through all this just to get left on the rooftop to end it here. From a story telling point of view, I see this as an opportunity for him to finally mature as a character. If Riley can't make a man out of him, Scratch certainly can.

Ra1th
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:22 AM
Wow shit really hit the fan this chapter. Only 6 confirmed survivors on the helicopter.

First death was Kalani I believe. The helicopter crash, the way the moments before his death were set up, I donít think heís coming back. From a story point that character no longer has anything left to contribute. Anything he had to say is now in his journal. So thatís that. Although itís worth noting that helicopters are built to withstand crashes, unlike planes they donít have ejector seats (chopper blades above, (although there are newer models that have the chopper blades eject off, and then the pilot ejects but that isnít the case here)). But anyway, there really doesnít seem to be any good reason for Kalani to survive, heís contributed everything he has to contribute. Farewell Kalani, you were a good guy. (Also Kevin Flood, I hope youíll still come to future Weíre Alive conventions, youíre an awesome dude to talk to!)

Burt ďdiedĒ. So itís been predicted by everyone and anyone for a long time now that this would happen. But everyone said warriorís death, not something like this. In a way it is suiting for Burt. He was an unparalleled soldier, and he didnít die at the hands of his enemy. At the same time he sure as shit didnít die on his own terms. The big reason someone would have in saying that Burt is still alive is that he didnít get his last words. It wasnít like with Kalani where he told Angel that he was sorry about the tire, and left a will of sorts in asking Angel to retrieve his journal. Burtís line just snapped, and one minute he was there and the next he was gone. But often times thatís just what death is. Not everyone dies a heroic death, and what better way to convey that point by having the towerís best marksman fall to his death. In a way Burt had his hero moment as time slowed and he sniped off the rpg maller, and in a way he failed there too. Itís symbolic in a way, even when he succeeds, he fails to protect. Itís really possible to see Burt as a tragic hero, who even with all his might could not save a friend in need of his help. Of course I could be reading way too much into this and Burt managed to pull off the Tarzan swing and is just badly injured. Also at the end, Scratch did say to put the badly injured one they found with the old man. Maybe old man Burt is alive. Iím fine with either really. (Scott Marvin youíre an egg-celent actor and downright hilarious. I hope Burt lives and we get to hear more of your improve bloopers).

And now Angel. Honestly I was a bit annoyed that the same two characters who just recently had cliff hanger will they survive moment are having another one, a few hours later. Couldnít it have been any other set? Maybe it could have been Riley and Burt in the building, Angel and Kalani make the rescue or Burt n Riley, or any other combination. Oh well, itís not like I think heís dead or anything. He has way too much going for him, leadership, riley, scratch relation blah blah blah all the same shit I said two weeks ago when the exact same thing happened. There was about a 1-2 minute time window where the ďcamera ďwas focused elsewhere for him to go do something. Iím sure heís injured as hell but Iím sure heíll survive miraculously. The problem is I donít think both Burt AND Angel can miraculously escape death, and of the two Angel has a lot more going for him, and he was in a much better position than Burt was. The thing at the end where Scratch finds someone badly injured could easily be Angel, although it was the sound of metal rather than rubble beneath the finderís feet. Could be Saul or Victor, but maybe that means one of them is dead? Last I recalled, they had an rpg land near the Hummer and knock it over. No reason they should be dead but who knows.

Add in Lizzy, she was with the Mallers, didnít hear much of her, so no reason sheís dead either.

I donít even know what happened to Steven, and I donít really care, I wasnít really invested in the guy.

As for the rat, Scratch says there were two Mallers in the tower. We found out one of them was Pippin. The other person who was the rat, the one who killed Pippin, is now most definitely on the towerís side. I wonder if thatís what Kalaniís last confession might be in his journal, or will it be Kelly whoís also on the chopper?

Zombiehead
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:33 AM
@Ra1th
Saul and Victor survived the RPG because it wasn't a direct hit. They ran off somewhere and KC left it at that. I'm on the boat with you that he had time to make a Resident Evil style leap from the rooftop to save himself. It's not his time yet.

GD_Elite
Jul 31st, 2011, 02:41 AM
@Raith
There were 7 survivors and a dog on the chopper
Michael, Pegs, Riley, Datu, Kelly, Tanya, Hope and Lady.

Steven got lumped in with the other minor characters. Who got made lunch while trying to escape, or crushed by the tower falling on them. The exception being Lewis who was presumably still tied up when the tower fell.

I think its more than possible that Saul, Lizzy and Victor all got away. It would appear that Lizzy was left alone in the confusion. They got out the Hummer, and presumably would have headed over to her.

Extra note: That artwork is sweet!

Grognaurd
Jul 31st, 2011, 09:15 AM
In another thread I postulated that juvenile records could be sealed, right? A background check might not find that

nikvoodoo
Jul 31st, 2011, 10:54 AM
I just noticed, that just before the Hummer shows up on the scene,~37:30 Scratch says to Angel, "Good bye, Old...."(interrupted). I think this could have been her about to say Old Friend. I think she has remembered how she knows him, and this makes it seem like she might want to keep him alive for it.


I haven't seen anyone else touch on this, but I think she was saying Goodbye Old Man. Burt was the last person to talk to the Mallers over the radio. Seems like that would be the person she was talking to was the last person to talk to her.

beezball
Jul 31st, 2011, 11:11 AM
Sorry, gd.....totally.happened. Can someone tell me if beez cried on the kamakazi mission kalani went on?

Yes... yes I did.

GD_Elite
Jul 31st, 2011, 11:14 AM
I haven't seen anyone else touch on this, but I think she was saying Goodbye Old Man. Burt was the last person to talk to the Mallers over the radio. Seems like that would be the person she was talking to was the last person to talk to her.

You are probably right, I forgot about Burt taking the radio. It doesn't completely rule out the possibility of what I said. However, if you are right it is more evidence towards the mallers having taken Burt, because thats another time that she refers to him as old man, which is what is said after the credits.

nikvoodoo
Jul 31st, 2011, 11:28 AM
You are probably right, I forgot about Burt taking the radio. It doesn't completely rule out the possibility of what I said. However, if you are right it is more evidence towards the mallers having taken Burt, because thats another time that she refers to him as old man, which is what is said after the credits.

Absolutely true. It doesn't rule it out that she might have been talking to Angel, but I'mma go Occam's Razor on it. It is the simplest solution, meaning, using the same principle, she was most likely talking about Burt/Burt's Body in the epilogue of the chapter.

We've already seen remains be used as "bargaining chips" so to speak. Scratch might be doing the same by reclaiming Tower bodies and promising to defile them or something. Of course the odd thing is she has found what she was looking for...so is her claiming to want Pegs a ruse to get close and distract the Tower from her real purpose? Or is Pegs still a priority in her mind?

GD_Elite
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:05 PM
I think you might be onto something with the mallers wanting dead bodies. After the credits, when Bricks says he found someone, Scratch asks if this one was alive. This could suggest that the "old man" is in fact dead, and only the very injured person is confirmed to be alive.

I don't think that Scratch would only be pretending to want Pegs, considering that the whole chapter she was saying she wanted her, and that pegs killed he brother (obviously).

There is some proof for your idea though. Scratch assumes a lot about the tower. She assumes that the golf course trade was a bluff, and she assumes that they wouldn't kill Pippin. It could be possible that she assumed that they wouldn't send out Pegs, and was trying to get them to accept the offer to surrender and fight the zombs.

However, I think it is quite likely that she might have found a better bargaining chip than just Lizzy or a corpse. It is important to note that it is not stated that the survivor is what she was looking for.

Lol, perhaps she found Mr. Whiskers and knows that Pegs would willingly trade herself for the cat. :)

nikvoodoo
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:09 PM
Mr whiskers ......

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...

Cabbage Patch
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:17 PM
Here's my "Kalani is the Rat" scenario.
• Kalani lands a planeload of survivors from Hawaii, including "his Hannah" at LAX.
• They are captured by the Mallers.
• Recognizing the special relationship between Kalani and Hannah, the Mallers force Kalani to work for them, planting him as a spy in the "Other Tower", using Hannah as a hostage to guarantee his behavior. Somewhere in here one of the Mallers comments that Hannah is the last redhead left in LA.
• Kalani gets captured by the zombies when the Other Tower falls, and is rescued from the Arena by our Tower.
• Kalani uses the CB to get back in contact with the Mallers. He tells them the names of the leaders and lets them know about the party, which provides the perfect cover for the Mallers' attack.
• After the attack Kalani has second thoughts about helping the Mallers and stops communicating with them. Maybe something Scratch says helps; I can imagine her playing head games with Kalani and telling him that Hannah was already dead.
• Kalani recognizes Pippin as one of the Mallers and kills him. Before he leaves for LAX he writes a confessional message that he hides in Bill's desk.
• On the helicopter trip back to the Tower Saul and Michael mention the death of the redheaded woman at the golf course, and Kalani realizes that it had to be Hannah.
• Kalani uses the helicopter to stop the Mallers' attack, explaining on the radio about Hannah and telling Angel where to find his confession.
It's not an ideal scenario, and I hate the thought of Kalani being the rat, but I think it matches the facts in evidence.

beezball
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:27 PM
That episode is stuck in my head and moved me so much i had to donate, so here is my $25 for the kalani Tower Fund (Listen to the aftershow of the live steam to get the referance), kalani you will be missed, i just wish i could of been in the chopter with you, listening to Highway to Hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs

I'm liking this! I knew it was a good idea!

Crocketman
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:36 PM
Kalani = Hero

beezball
Jul 31st, 2011, 12:56 PM
For the record. I was just re-listening to chapter 7 where they do the sweat tests. During the scene where the zombies come up the adjacent tower that they ziplined down to, they cut the return zipline back to the tower because a zombie got on it. Anyway, angel says something to the effect that they should just starting dropping zombies three stories because it seems to kill themzombie as well asmaybe bullets. So we can assume the adjacent tower is 3 stories. So burt fell roughly 30-40 feet. Not as devastating as all that really. I'd say it would definitely be survivable.

GD_Elite
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:16 PM
Here's my "Kalani is the Rat" scenario.
• Kalani lands a planeload of survivors from Hawaii, including "his Hannah" at LAX.
• They are captured by the Mallers.
• Recognizing the special relationship between Kalani and Hannah, the Mallers force Kalani to work for them, planting him as a spy in the "Other Tower", using Hannah as a hostage to guarantee his behavior. Somewhere in here one of the Mallers comments that Hannah is the last redhead left in LA.
• Kalani gets captured by the zombies when the Other Tower falls, and is rescued from the Arena by our Tower.
• Kalani uses the CB to get back in contact with the Mallers. He tells them the names of the leaders and lets them know about the party, which provides the perfect cover for the Mallers' attack.
• After the attack Kalani has second thoughts about helping the Mallers and stops communicating with them. Maybe something Scratch says helps; I can imagine her playing head games with Kalani and telling him that Hannah was already dead.
• Kalani recognizes Pippin as one of the Mallers and kills him. Before he leaves for LAX he writes a confessional message that he hides in Bill's desk.
• On the helicopter trip back to the Tower Saul and Michael mention the death of the redheaded woman at the golf course, and Kalani realizes that it had to be Hannah.
• Kalani uses the helicopter to stop the Mallers' attack, explaining on the radio about Hannah and telling Angel where to find his confession.
It's not an ideal scenario, and I hate the thought of Kalani being the rat, but I think it matches the facts in evidence.

I agree with you on most of it. But I think being the last redhead is a bit silly. I think it makes more sense that the team from the golf course told him about it, and Kalani might have assumed it was her, because he knew the consequences of not helping the tower, and probably realised that the mallers werent getting any use out of him/her.

Also, I think that Kalani likely changed his mind about being the rat when Angel didn't leave him to get eaten by the Big one, which could explain why he apologised for the tyre to an extent.


For the record. I was just re-listening to chapter 7 where they do the sweat tests. During the scene where the zombies come up the adjacent tower that they ziplined down to, they cut the return zipline back to the tower because a zombie got on it. Anyway, angel says something to the effect that they should just starting dropping zombies three stories because it seems to kill themzombie as well asmaybe bullets. So we can assume the adjacent tower is 3 stories. So burt fell roughly 30-40 feet. Not as devastating as all that really. I'd say it would definitely be survivable.

I think the calculations might be a little off.
The zipline went from the roof (~15th floor) to the adjacent roof. Then it went back down to the 3rd floor. Assuming the same angle slope on the 2 ziplwires, the adjacent tower is probably about 9 stories tall. The zombie you mentioned probably fell about 3 stories because it was close to the tower. Burt was close but probably just a bit higher than the roof of the other tower. This means that Burt probably fell around 10 floors. Not to mention that the burning tanker was beneath him. I'm not sure that he would have necessarily hit that, but its an extra reason why he might not have made it.

archangel
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:24 PM
Hello everyone.. Long time listener, first time poster. I wanted to throw in my two cents with regard to Kalani's Hannah. His final words were exactly: "That girl? That was my Hannah". To me, that statement sounds like he either spoke with Angel about Hannah before, or that Angel will find out who Hannah was by reading the Journal he left in Bill's desk.

Here's an abstract view on the name/term 'Hannah' though. What if he didn't say Hannah at all? What if his reference was to the word "Heina" (pronounced the same)? If you look up the word, in urbanspeak it means "Male referring to his girlfriend. Term of endearment. My woman, queen, highness, above all other women. Slang for fine b*tch, main b*tch" (sorry ladies, I'm only quoting the dictionary). The band Sublime used the term in the song "Santeria"... "If I could find that heina, and that Sancho that she's found..."

Lastly, when Angel opened Bill's desk he said, "What the hell is this?" Looking at the comment logically, if he only found the Journal, his reaction wouldn't have been confusion. To me it sounds like he found something else in the desk besides the Journal.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that into the mix.. :))

archangel
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:51 PM
Some of my theories on survival:

Burt: Everyone on the roof agreed that before Burt's zipline broke, he was very close to the other building. As a long-time climber who's used ziplines before, I can tell you that forward momentum would have carried him into the side of the building he was zipping into. He wouldn't have been on his back as some mentioned, nor on his belly (Superman style), but rather in a sitting position. Angel himself says that he only pulled up about 10 yards of rope. If Burt was close to the other building when he fell, he would have had the brunt of the rope on his side and the burned/frayed end of the rope would have been well behind him. It's very possible he could have grabbed the zip line, bounced into the side of the building, and fallen a much lesser height than we assume.

Angel: His predicament sounds more problematic, but no less survivable. The brunt of the damage to the building was to the lower floors. Those would have been the ones to collapse fully. I think we're wrongly assuming a building collapse like we saw on 9/11, but only majority of the center of the roof collapsed, probably because of fire traveling up the elevator shaft which is always in the center shaft of a building. It doesn't sound like the upper floors were too much impacted by the fire below, because remember Angel was able to descend into Bill's apartment and we weren't hearing fire noises. In addition, Hope was nearby and he didn't have to fight fire to get to her. With that in mind, the lower floors of the building could have collapsed, but that doesn't mean everything collapsed in a pile of dust, and Angel could have easily survived in a pocket of undamaged building. There have been plenty of documented cases of this in real life situations, and I'm sure our brilliant show writer knows this. :)

Saul and Victor: Last we heard from them, they sounded like they were fine (relatively). If they're smart, they'll lay low and bide their time, follow the Mallers and see what they can do tactically without giving themselves away, while at the same time trying to re-establish contact with Michael and the rest of the helicopter survivors.

nikvoodoo
Jul 31st, 2011, 02:20 PM
Some of my theories on survival:

Burt: Everyone on the roof agreed that before Burt's zipline broke, he was very close to the other building. As a long-time climber who's used ziplines before, I can tell you that forward momentum would have carried him into the side of the building he was zipping into. He wouldn't have been on his back as some mentioned, nor on his belly (Superman style), but rather in a sitting position. Angel himself says that he only pulled up about 10 yards of rope. If Burt was close to the other building when he fell, he would have had the brunt of the rope on his side and the burned/frayed end of the rope would have been well behind him. It's very possible he could have grabbed the zip line, bounced into the side of the building, and fallen a much lesser height than we assume.


It was me who said he would be laying on his back. Which is true, but slightly inaccurate. The harness would have be attached to the line at the waist. As they are sliding down they would be in more of a seated position, but leaning backwards in order to move forward. If they lean forward, they would rub their shoulder/face on the line. When the rope snapped, his descent would be in relatively the same position meaning he would either stand up in the air, or end up prone and laid out with his back to the ground.

The major deciding factor would be the harness and how they worked, and also if he was able to get to the rope/attempt to grab at the rope.

archangel
Jul 31st, 2011, 02:38 PM
The major deciding factor would be the harness and how they worked, and also if he was able to get to the rope/attempt to grab at the rope.

Nikvoodoo, there is a third alternative of course, which I didn't think of until now. The military style hand over hand approach. Burt, being an old Gunny would have been well versed in this method. You know which one I'm referring to, the one where your hands grip the line, there's a carabiner attached to the harness at the waist, and your feet are crossed over the line and you pull yourself across. If he used this method, his hands would have been gripping the line already. They may have been out of harnesses by now and Burt may have resorted to his military training to get himself across. Using this method he would have gone down-line head first, and gripping the rope he would have swung into the side of the building in an upright position.. something to ponder..

Dr. Hatchet
Jul 31st, 2011, 03:42 PM
I cryed, when burt..

archangel
Jul 31st, 2011, 03:50 PM
I cryed, when burt..

I wouldn't fret too much.. Burt's not dead. Like someone said earlier, it was too lame a death for Burt. After all we've been through with Burt, a major character of his caliber, for him to fall off a zipline and die like that would be a complete letdown. If he's going to die, he needs to die in a blaze of glory, not falling off a zipline.

nikvoodoo
Jul 31st, 2011, 04:09 PM
Z day stories are filled of lackluster deaths. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was dead.

However, if you can explain how he narrated (with our general assumption that narration= journal entry) but died without having written in a journal, I'm listening

Osiris
Jul 31st, 2011, 04:14 PM
Z day stories are filled of lackluster deaths. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was dead.

However, if you can explain how he narrated (with our general assumption that narration= journal entry) but died without having written in a journal, I'm listening

Burt and Angel are alive. For now. Let's get excited about the next series.

archangel
Jul 31st, 2011, 04:19 PM
Z day stories are filled of lackluster deaths. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was dead.

However, if you can explain how he narrated (with our general assumption that narration= journal entry) but died without having written in a journal, I'm listening

Good point about the narration, haha

Still, if I found out that they killed him off just like that, I'd walk around with a sour lemon look on my face all day. I think he'll be a prisoner, collaborate with Angel, have a chance at redemption and save Lizzy. I think we'll see one of those "Lizzy? Lizzzyyyy!!" reactions from Saul when Burt brings his honey back to him. :cool:

kek
Jul 31st, 2011, 04:33 PM
I think the other person the mallers captured, when Scratch said they had two people from the Tower, was Skittles. The Mallers don't know Skittles so they assumed he was from the Tower. Scratch was looking for Angel after the Tower fell, that is who they found at the end and put with Burt. This could indicate that Scratch did indeed know Angel before all this happened.




.

Don Man
Jul 31st, 2011, 06:22 PM
If Burt is dead then thats gonna annoy me not becasue I like him just becasue the rope snapping is a really cheap death for a main character

LittleSurvivor
Jul 31st, 2011, 07:12 PM
Hm, considering the theory that Kalani stopped working as a spy for The Mallers at some point after Angel saved him there is one sad thing about that theory: then The Mallers new "home" would not be mentioned in his Journal, I assume. Too bad...and that would mean that the Helicopter-Survivors HAVE to rely on Saul and/or Victor to follow them somehow or at least on Angel and/or Burt - if they make it (I think they are severely hurt and as far as we know The Mallers have no doctor with them, at least they are probably not better equipped than the tower...was...). Ok, maybe Lizzy could get a message through, but that is pretty unlikely as well.
So we could assume the line of some events taking place early in s3...right?

riskbreaker23
Jul 31st, 2011, 07:28 PM
Yea I realize that too lol. My point though was that KC is deliberately structures the plot this way. I can't decide if I like his style or not anymore, but one thing is for sure: I keep coming back for more, so it must be a good style lol.

I was actually shattered into pieces when I thought they killed Lizzy. Hearing Michael apologize to Saul was heart wrenching.

I actually thought for a moment when the tanker was creeping it's way towards the tower with the fuel spilling out of the gas tank that Riley was gonna show up with a lit arrow and robin hood the shit out of that scene LMAO!

Kc has said that one of his inspirations in writing was the show LOST. If you ever watched that show from beginning to end you'll see that the whole way that every time a mystery is answered it is accompanied with many more mysteries. Fortunately, unlike LOST Kc has said all mysteries will be answered by the end. Fear not, we'll find out what happened to Michael. I agree with you, it's one of the biggest questions I have. However, the introduction of Randy at the end of Season 2 means he will come back in Season 3 and mark my words... the water tower, Michael's broken arm, and Randy are connected.

Magrat
Jul 31st, 2011, 09:42 PM
So we know who one is. Lizzy. Fine.
But who is the other?
My theory is, that if the idea of Lizzy being pregnant is right, then the 'other tower residence' is her unborn child. The only thing that makes sense, unless there is someone we're missing and don't realize it (skittles anyone? maybe someone from The Colony?)
So my money is on unborn child.

[as a side note, I can't see a Chapter 24 sub forum. do we have one yet?]

Magrat
Jul 31st, 2011, 09:44 PM
Scratch now has 'The Old Man' and someone else. I'm assuming we're assuming it's Burt and Angel. but really, who knows.
As a side note, shouldn't this be in the Season 2 subforum (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?53-Season-2)?

nikvoodoo
Jul 31st, 2011, 10:50 PM
No chapter 24 subforum. I'm going to merge this into the discussion thread and create the subforum shortly. I just realized that 2 hours after the chapter ended we didn't have a discussion thread created yet so I hastily created it.

Magrat
Aug 1st, 2011, 03:15 AM
oooh! everything has been merged! fun times!

Magrat
Aug 1st, 2011, 04:07 AM
Just a thought...when scratch was talking to tardust, I thought he sounded a little bit like skittles, or was it just me?? He even stuttered a little bit when he talked to scratch. But then why wouldn't he stutter, scratch is a little scary.

I had the same thought! He did sound a tad skittlish.


I wouldn't fret too much.. Burt's not dead. Like someone said earlier, it was too lame a death for Burt. After all we've been through with Burt, a major character of his caliber, for him to fall off a zipline and die like that would be a complete letdown. If he's going to die, he needs to die in a blaze of glory, not falling off a zipline.

KC has mentioned that if they get into a position where they will die, they die (like Samantha).
As much as I love Burt, and I do, I also think the idea of his death being such an anticlimax (if he's dead) is brilliant. We are all expecting this blaze of glory, so if we don't get it, it reinforces the 'even main character's aren't safe' thing. So, don't want him to be dead, but think that if he is it's the perfect way for him to go (ie against convention)!


Just finished second listen through.

Things to point out:
Scratch doesn't want to shoot Lizzy, and I'm pretty sure she was lying when she was said it was because of the bargaining chip. This leads me to believe that Scratch possibly could have lost a child or had a miscarriage or something before this all started. Just a theory.

Scratch refers to Burt as the Old Man when talking to Tar earlier on, which is interesting as it goes towards the possibility that Burt did survive.....

And how did Riley become unconscious, not really explained.

So we think they have Burt, awesome. Doesn't mean he's alive. Could just be the body?
Also, I think it was smoke inhillation that caused Riley's unconsciousness.

I'm sure there are more thoughts out there. SOme of them may even be mine. We shall find out when all the disparate threads are merged. (Some of them are already. fun times)

Cheers,
Magrat

clem131
Aug 1st, 2011, 05:49 AM
or end up prone and laid out with his back to the ground.


"Supine" is the word you're looking for :) "prone" is actually the opposite.
(sorry, but I've seen this already more than once in this thread and it makes me cringe a little each time :P)

clem131
Aug 1st, 2011, 06:12 AM
Kalani being the rat: sounds extremely complicated, somebody laid down a credible scenario earlier in the thread and it was very long and convoluted:
he'd have to be a spy BEFORE ending up in the arena, he'd have to know already that the mallers had issues with the guys in the tower, he'd have to be like "oh, good, by extreme luck I happen to be rescued by the guys I overheard the mallers have trouble with, let me be the rat then." etc
Plus, how stupid would he be to write "BTW, I'm a spy, but don't read this or you'll blow my cover" on his diary?!

I don't think he was informed about the redhead at the golf park during the flight back:
- "it's a redhead it must be her omg I wanna die kthxbai boom"
- it all happens "off camera", so to speak, and that would be extremely lame. Show, don't tell, and we aren't shown anything on Michael briefing him about the girl in the park, we are just imagining it. It would be a key scene and I just can't believe they would let it happen in the background.
I instead think the story with Kalani is something else entirely and we will be shown what "Hannah" means in the future when Angel or someone else reads his diary.
(Also, without the forums there was no way I could tell he said "Hannah", I listened to that part over and over, and I had trouble understanding Tar saying "Pippin" too. I'm not a native english speaker but it's the language we speak at work. I want the scripts together with the episodes on iTunes, too! :P)

Another thing: I guess the actress playing Tanya wasn't available. At least I hope so: there was a huge expectations buildup during the past episodes: "I think I know what the rat is", then she is attacked by zombies, we fear she's going to turn and then *poof!* all of a sudden she's up and walking about, and it all happens off camera (which, now that I think about it, is a good argument for Kalani thing happening off camera too). For crying out loud, I don't even recall hearing her voice the whole episode, it just suddenly goes "Oh, and fyi, there's Tanya on the chopper too" at the end.

Cuse and Lindelof said they would answer all the questions at the end of Lost too, and look what happened... between Randy, and Michael's arm, and the rat, and now this Hannah... I just hope it doesn't go the same way as Lost.

nikvoodoo
Aug 1st, 2011, 06:54 AM
"Supine" is the word you're looking for :) "prone" is actually the opposite.
(sorry, but I've seen this already more than once in this thread and it makes me cringe a little each time :P)

Well.....ain't we just a know it all.... :p

Thank you for correcting. I didn't realize I was crossed up.

clem131
Aug 1st, 2011, 07:40 AM
Well.....ain't we just a know it all.... :p

Thank you for correcting. I didn't realize I was crossed up.
I know, sorry, there was no way to make it sound less know-it-ally ^^'

reaper239
Aug 1st, 2011, 07:42 AM
when would they have had time cuz when saul was shot he was in like a coma like state most of the time

are you kidding me, it was like a week or two that he was strapped down. nothing but time, and if no one else was checking in on them, well that's a lot of alone time ;) *wink*

Pikepaw
Aug 1st, 2011, 02:31 PM
I feel bad that I actually predicted Kalani's death...but not like this, nothing like this. I was horrified when it happened. I'm in the camp that he is dead, I'm sorry but there is no way for him to survive that kind of explosion. I wish it wasn't so.

I also predicted that the Big-Rig tanker bombs would come back into play because some were abandoned. Again, couldn't have predicted how they were used, but I think in the thread, "crackpot theories" I mentioned one being attempted to crash into the tower. I just didn't realize the Mallers would use them, I thought maybe the zombies would. I also knew the only way we knew Saul was bluffing was if at the beginning of the episode it is shown him explaining him plan to his allies.

So in summary, I feel smart for the things I half-predicted, but also bad. Mainly because in WND 19 I said Kalani was next to die...and I was right, I hate that. One time I wish I was wrong. Even just thinking about that scene tears me up inside

Kc
Aug 1st, 2011, 02:51 PM
between Randy, and Michael's arm, and the rat, and now this Hannah... I just hope it doesn't go the same way as Lost.
You'll know soon enough, I promise. Pieces of the info is there, you just don't have the pieces to connect the dots...

Hollomandious
Aug 1st, 2011, 03:33 PM
Kalani being the rat: sounds extremely complicated, somebody laid down a credible scenario earlier in the thread and it was very long and convoluted:
he'd have to be a spy BEFORE ending up in the arena, he'd have to know already that the mallers had issues with the guys in the tower, he'd have to be like "oh, good, by extreme luck I happen to be rescued by the guys I overheard the mallers have trouble with, let me be the rat then." etc
Plus, how stupid would he be to write "BTW, I'm a spy, but don't read this or you'll blow my cover" on his diary?!

shovel:) calm down.

How about this.

Kalani landed, coming from Hawaii, just like he said. Then, the Mallers got him and his girl. He was then forced to go to the other Tower under penalty of her death. Shit went belly up there, and he ended up at the Arena. Then the Tower Folk randomly come save his ass. He then fones home to make sure they know he didn't just ditch them and her. He then tells about the pending night of drinking, and shit goes down. He then continues to give them little bits of info here and there in the background to keep Hannah alive. He doesn't check in for a while. So the Mallers send Pippin' in. Kalani kills Pippin' before he leaves w/ Datu. The Mallers (or maybe just Scratch) say, fuck it, and decide to use Hannah as a decoy to send a message to him (if he's still alive, since they don't know for sure).

And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.

Eh?

syfo
Aug 1st, 2011, 04:31 PM
And what about this long shot. Reinforcing the theory that Kalani was/is the rat, what if the body that Bricks found was Kalani, I mean if he somehow survived, he would be burned and so, hence the expression of Scratch when she look at it and her saying "I found what I was looking for" if that's the case then I hope Angel escaped somehow.

Cabbage Patch
Aug 1st, 2011, 06:46 PM
An added thought on the "Kalani as the rat" debate. When Angel searches Bill's desk he exclaims, "What the hell is this?", followed by the sounds of him moving some heavy-sounding items. A few minutes later he tells Burt and Hope that he's putting "Kalani's journals" in Hope's backpack. I don't know why the sight of Kalani's journals would merit any special exclamation, they're what I was expecting Angel to find. But I can think of several other things that might merit a few choice words. Say, a silenced Beretta, or maybe a radio that didn't belong to the Tower. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of Hope's backpack when Season 3 starts!

nikvoodoo
Aug 1st, 2011, 08:58 PM
Has someone mentioned that Michael screwed up the Pippin assassination timeline? And that he said he and Angel were together when it happened and Angel didn't correct him?

But that's not exactly how it went down.....fishy fishy fishy....best part of it being fishy? Red herrings are also fishy....so that's interesting.

wh33t
Aug 1st, 2011, 10:14 PM
Absolutely true. It doesn't rule it out that she might have been talking to Angel, but I'mma go Occam's Razor on it. It is the simplest solution, meaning, using the same principle, she was most likely talking about Burt/Burt's Body in the epilogue of the chapter.

We've already seen remains be used as "bargaining chips" so to speak. Scratch might be doing the same by reclaiming Tower bodies and promising to defile them or something. Of course the odd thing is she has found what she was looking for...so is her claiming to want Pegs a ruse to get close and distract the Tower from her real purpose? Or is Pegs still a priority in her mind?

Yes, I too wondered what exactly it was she was referring too at that point.

wh33t
Aug 1st, 2011, 10:28 PM
Good point about the narration, haha

Still, if I found out that they killed him off just like that, I'd walk around with a sour lemon look on my face all day. I think he'll be a prisoner, collaborate with Angel, have a chance at redemption and save Lizzy. I think we'll see one of those "Lizzy? Lizzzyyyy!!" reactions from Saul when Burt brings his honey back to him. :cool:

That would be awesome if Burt managed to right his wrongs.

Laura
Aug 1st, 2011, 10:48 PM
Head... spinning... wow. I just can't believe all this!

Has anyone besides me noticed that the zombies were almost entirely a non-appearance and non-issue in this one? Don't get me wrong, I HATE those guys (don't we all?), but I just found it interesting. Our peeps from the tower were originally worried about the zombies, but now it seems the greater and more immediate danger is the Mallers.

wh33t
Aug 1st, 2011, 11:03 PM
Kc has said that one of his inspirations in writing was the show LOST. If you ever watched that show from beginning to end you'll see that the whole way that every time a mystery is answered it is accompanied with many more mysteries. Fortunately, unlike LOST Kc has said all mysteries will be answered by the end. Fear not, we'll find out what happened to Michael. I agree with you, it's one of the biggest questions I have. However, the introduction of Randy at the end of Season 2 means he will come back in Season 3 and mark my words... the water tower, Michael's broken arm, and Randy are connected.

Who is Randy again? -_-


shovel:) calm down.

How about this.

Kalani landed, coming from Hawaii, just like he said. Then, the Mallers got him and his girl. He was then forced to go to the other Tower under penalty of her death. Shit went belly up there, and he ended up at the Arena. Then the Tower Folk randomly come save his ass. He then fones home to make sure they know he didn't just ditch them and her. He then tells about the pending night of drinking, and shit goes down. He then continues to give them little bits of info here and there in the background to keep Hannah alive. He doesn't check in for a while. So the Mallers send Pippin' in. Kalani kills Pippin' before he leaves w/ Datu. The Mallers (or maybe just Scratch) say, fuck it, and decide to use Hannah as a decoy to send a message to him (if he's still alive, since they don't know for sure).

And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.

Eh?

Nice


And what about this long shot. Reinforcing the theory that Kalani was/is the rat, what if the body that Bricks found was Kalani, I mean if he somehow survived, he would be burned and so, hence the expression of Scratch when she look at it and her saying "I found what I was looking for" if that's the case then I hope Angel escaped somehow.

I considered that also. That would be hellah terrifying.

ggannon
Aug 2nd, 2011, 12:43 AM
I hate when good things go on hiatus

Zombiehead
Aug 2nd, 2011, 01:06 AM
Hello everyone.. Long time listener, first time poster. I wanted to throw in my two cents with regard to Kalani's Hannah. His final words were exactly: "That girl? That was my Hannah". To me, that statement sounds like he either spoke with Angel about Hannah before, or that Angel will find out who Hannah was by reading the Journal he left in Bill's desk.

Here's an abstract view on the name/term 'Hannah' though. What if he didn't say Hannah at all? What if his reference was to the word "Heina" (pronounced the same)? If you look up the word, in urbanspeak it means "Male referring to his girlfriend. Term of endearment. My woman, queen, highness, above all other women. Slang for fine b*tch, main b*tch" (sorry ladies, I'm only quoting the dictionary). The band Sublime used the term in the song "Santeria"... "If I could find that heina, and that Sancho that she's found..."

Lastly, when Angel opened Bill's desk he said, "What the hell is this?" Looking at the comment logically, if he only found the Journal, his reaction wouldn't have been confusion. To me it sounds like he found something else in the desk besides the Journal.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that into the mix.. :))

I like your thinking. Welcome to the boards!

OkieDoQui
Aug 2nd, 2011, 01:19 AM
Just listened to Chapter 24 for the first time but will give it another listen.

Did Scratch really say the old "man" or "men". I thought I had heard men which could be implied it was either burt and she was just going to make him another slave or someone significantly injured i.e.(possibly Angel). I'm in agreement that Angel found the the silenced pistol and maybe thats what scratch had picked up from the rubble that she found next to Angel.

zzfist
Aug 2nd, 2011, 02:10 AM
shovel:) calm down.

How about this.

Kalani landed, coming from Hawaii, just like he said. Then, the Mallers got him and his girl. He was then forced to go to the other Tower under penalty of her death. Shit went belly up there, and he ended up at the Arena. Then the Tower Folk randomly come save his ass. He then fones home to make sure they know he didn't just ditch them and her. He then tells about the pending night of drinking, and shit goes down. He then continues to give them little bits of info here and there in the background to keep Hannah alive. He doesn't check in for a while. So the Mallers send Pippin' in. Kalani kills Pippin' before he leaves w/ Datu. The Mallers (or maybe just Scratch) say, fuck it, and decide to use Hannah as a decoy to send a message to him (if he's still alive, since they don't know for sure).

And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.

Eh?

I thought the same thing. Also if Kalani was from the other tower too why does hope never recognize him or acknowledge the fact that he knew him from that tower? Maybe he just stole Samantha's story about the other tower. Thats why when ever they asked him where the other tower was he couldnt find it on any maps or remember where it was. Not that i dont like Kalani labeling him as a rat but i know from this chapter if he was the rat its not because he wanted to be its because he was forced to be in order to keep hannah alive. And he must have killed pippin to keep the mallers from finding out anything else.

AdrianHD
Aug 2nd, 2011, 02:22 AM
I thought the same thing. Also if Kalani was from the other tower too why does hope never recognize him or acknowledge the fact that he knew him from that tower? Maybe he just stole Samantha's story about the other tower. Thats why when ever they asked him where the other tower was he couldnt find it on any maps or remember where it was. Not that i dont like Kalani labeling him as a rat but i know from this chapter if he was the rat its not because he wanted to be its because he was forced to be in order to keep hannah alive. And he must have killed pippin to keep the mallers from finding out anything else.

Wasn't Kalani remembered by Hope or something? I forget.

Adventureless_Hero
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:04 AM
I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?

Although I've been saying that Burt's death was coming, I actually don't believe he's dead. He had some moments of narration, the bit about his hands growing steady and then starts blasting Maller melons left and right. So if he was narrating can we assume he later had time to tell his story to someone, or maybe write it down in a journal? I dunno, his death seemed to casual. Sure it is realistic in that no one is safe but this is Burt! He was supposed to go down in a blaze of glory, not the blaze of a fuel truck five stories below!

So I'm a Saul fan boy, but I must say, I'm quite disappointed in the guy. Although I admire his love driven quest to rescue Lizzie, I hate it that he was blind to the dangers ahead. If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member! On the same hand you have to give credit to Scratch for out smarting three soldiers. I'm convinced she has some sort of military training. Maybe like some disciplinary bootcamp type stuff.

So Angel finding Kalani's journal is kind of a big deal in that I thought everyone had turned in thier journals to Tanya. Why was he hiding his? Or was this a "true" journal in that he kept a false one and a real one should he ever wish to clear his conscience? But I'm not completely convinced that Kalani could have been the mole. If the mole and the Pippin shooter are indeed the same person, then it seems like it would have been next to impossible for Kalani to shoot Pippin.

Dang it KC! I know the peices are there. I just can't put the picture together yet.

AllanR
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:14 AM
Scratch's maneuver at the golf course was classic Sun Tzu strategy. She is starting to become my favorite character on the show.

I'm also not so convinced that Kalani is dead at this point. When Scratch and Bricks are walking around the rubble, it sounds as though they are walking on thin sheets of metal, similar to that of a helicopter. Since the Wiki lists him as deceased, I guess he really is deceased. If he did survive, then Angel will be the wildcard here. Since everyone is convinced that he's dead, I could see him shadowing the Mallers and maturing as a more formidable character.

nrtv20
Aug 2nd, 2011, 11:04 AM
Has someone mentioned that Michael screwed up the Pippin assassination timeline? And that he said he and Angel were together when it happened and Angel didn't correct him?

But that's not exactly how it went down.....fishy fishy fishy....best part of it being fishy? Red herrings are also fishy....so that's interesting.

I believe he was referencing Episode (1); implying Angel has always been with the Tower and no time to be associated with the Mallers.

nikvoodoo
Aug 2nd, 2011, 12:29 PM
I believe he was referencing Episode (1); implying Angel has always been with the Tower and no time to be associated with the Mallers.

Burt was referencing the Killer of Pippin (24 ~33:50-34:10 mark) and that maybe he was looking at the killer right now instead of Lewis who was locked up below. Michael says "No there's no way. Angel was with me when it happened. Right, Angel?" and Angel replies "Exactly."

As we've had time trial discussions trying to figure out who was available to murder Pippin (who did and did not have enough time to pull the trigger), I found it interesting that despite knowing there's 12-15 seconds Angel is unaccounted for Michael claims they were in the same location.

VeritableHero
Aug 2nd, 2011, 01:01 PM
Tried to read through all of the posts but I might have missed this. Here are my two thoughts:

1. Kalani could have found out that the girl from the golf course "was his Hannah" on his way to pick up Micheal & Co. near the golf course. He was alone in the chopper on the way to the rendezvous point, right? He had a radio up there with him.

2. Hope says "That's a long way" when either talking about the drop from the room or the trip via zip-line to the other building. Does that mean that she can actually see? Does that mean that her blindness was temporary and more trauma caused it to return? Does that mean she's been faking it all along?

More thoughts coming later.

GChild78
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:07 PM
I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo

wh33t
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:54 PM
I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?

Omg, I totally forgot about that. It's definitely sounding like they had another female to use as leverage.



So I'm a Saul fan boy, but I must say, I'm quite disappointed in the guy. Although I admire his love driven quest to rescue Lizzie, I hate it that he was blind to the dangers ahead. If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member! On the same hand you have to give credit to Scratch for out smarting three soldiers. I'm convinced she has some sort of military training. Maybe like some disciplinary bootcamp type stuff.

I'm a Saul fan boy as well, I'd like to think I would have done the exact same thing. No one else at the Tower was taking the Lizzy search seriously. I think if blame is going to be pointed at any one specific person, it goes to Michael and his list of militant rules that Burt was destined to follow. But all in all, in a Zombie Apocalypse you probably just gotta let some shit slide, it's a crazy situation lol.

wh33t
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:56 PM
I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo

Interesting idea! Although I'm not sure 'anyone' can simple crack open a black box and start recovering data from it. Isn't it some kind of on board computer that needs to be connected to some other kind of machine to retrieve the data?

nikvoodoo
Aug 2nd, 2011, 07:59 PM
I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo

From what I can find in general helicopters are not required to carry a Flight Data Recorder, or a Voice Data Recorder (collectively they are the Black boxes). Medical helicopters specifically are noted to not carry the VDR, and Kalani crashed the medical chopper into the tanker. But even if they did find a data recorder in the wreckage, w33t is correct. You need the right equipment in order to analyze the data....of course we know LAX is basically uninhabited.They could try to find it there, but I'd imagine it's only helpful if you knew what to look for.

Ultimately, what do the black boxes even accomplish for the Mallers? They know the helicopter was purposefully flown into their bomb so you don't need the data recorder for that. And Kalani was using the CB so the Mallers would be able to hear what was said anyway (Bricks was monitoring the radio at one point).

Hellbringer
Aug 3rd, 2011, 06:11 AM
"wow!" on the podcast, and I just want to add this to all the "red shirt" stuff going on...

I made all of my guys wear red shirts at work on Saturday.

Adogg
Aug 3rd, 2011, 07:07 AM
I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?

Lizzie is pregnant. Hence the reference to "two" and "her" (and her throwing up).



So Angel finding Kalani's journal is kind of a big deal in that I thought everyone had turned in thier journals to Tanya. Why was he hiding his? Or was this a "true" journal in that he kept a false one and a real one should he ever wish to clear his conscience? But I'm not completely convinced that Kalani could have been the mole. If the mole and the Pippin shooter are indeed the same person, then it seems like it would have been next to impossible for Kalani to shoot Pippin.

My theory is that the item found in Kalani's desk is a proof of life photo of Kalani's daughter with Scratch holding a gun to her head. Angel would not be surprised to find just a normal picture or journal. It needs to be something that as soon as he saw it would make him say WTH. Some have theorized that this girl was the girl killed at the golf course and thus removed Kalani's attachment to the Mallers. Basically, he was the (one of the) mole because Scratch was blackmailing him. Maybe not but it's a theory...

jopen
Aug 3rd, 2011, 08:01 AM
Hello ev'body.
I have found a place that helps with withdrawals between episodes...and now can help between seasons.
www.talesofthezomiewar.com
It's a whole s-ton of short (some pretty long) zombie stories.
Some are not so good, others are freakin' awesome.

I liked this season for the most part. I feel like the zombies sometimes became a non-issue.
If there was a fire fight going on you would think the zombies would be all over the place, attracted by all the noise.
Sprinting zombies are never a non-issue.
....especially in numbers.

Adventureless_Hero
Aug 3rd, 2011, 12:16 PM
Burt was referencing the Killer of Pippin (24 ~33:50-34:10 mark) and that maybe he was looking at the killer right now instead of Lewis who was locked up below. Michael says "No there's no way. Angel was with me when it happened. Right, Angel?" and Angel replies "Exactly."

As we've had time trial discussions trying to figure out who was available to murder Pippin (who did and did not have enough time to pull the trigger), I found it interesting that despite knowing there's 12-15 seconds Angel is unaccounted for Michael claims they were in the same location.

Well, I think he's just assuming that Pippin wasn't killed that quickly. His mind deleted that 12-15 seconds that it took them both to run into each other. The Pippin assassination timeline remains the same for us because we heard it take place, but in Michaels head it might be a bit construed, which would make for some hardcore suprise on his part if he learned that Angel was the shooter. Honestly though, I don't think it was intentional on Michaels part.

Magrat
Aug 4th, 2011, 04:59 AM
You'll know soon enough, I promise. Pieces of the info is there, you just don't have the pieces to connect the dots...
You are one Brilliant Evil Man. I salute you.


Head... spinning... wow. I just can't believe all this!

Has anyone besides me noticed that the zombies were almost entirely a non-appearance and non-issue in this one? Don't get me wrong, I HATE those guys (don't we all?), but I just found it interesting. Our peeps from the tower were originally worried about the zombies, but now it seems the greater and more immediate danger is the Mallers.

I found it interesting that we could hear their calls at specific times throughout the episode but they didn't appear... but they are still around and I fear they are planning something... Don't discount them. they shall be back with a vengeance.

clem131
Aug 4th, 2011, 05:31 AM
And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.

I can believe all that too, but still having such a key passage happen in the background without mentioning it at all doesn't sound KC-y to me.
Showels to you too, I guess :)

Adogg
Aug 4th, 2011, 05:52 AM
I found it interesting that we could hear their calls at specific times throughout the episode but they didn't appear... but they are still around and I fear they are planning something... Don't discount them. they shall be back with a vengeance.

Didn't the Zombies overwhelm the people trying to drive away?

VeritableHero
Aug 4th, 2011, 08:14 AM
Didn't the Zombies overwhelm the people trying to drive away?Correct.

ICTerify
Aug 5th, 2011, 01:09 AM
Nice episode as always, looking forward to Season 3.

VeritableHero
Aug 5th, 2011, 08:21 AM
Scratch was definitely looking for a person at the end of the episode. Not an object.

My reasoning: She says, "Keep looking" right before Bricks calls her over to look at the man's body. When she tells Bricks to put him with the old man, that's when she says she found what she was looking for.

kek
Aug 6th, 2011, 07:09 PM
If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member!

Although, to defend Saul, I think Scratch would have found a way to get the Tower eventually. She is conniving and resourceful. If Saul hadn't done what he did, it still could have gone down. But I do think Saul did rush into it and could have done better. It did cause huge damage and death, and that sucks. Saul did not have to go about it how he did, and he did mess up. But not entirely his fault, just partly his fault.

clparson
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:02 PM
Woot! Lizzy is gonna have a baby! If she is alive, of course. The throwing up makes sense now.

edgeworth
Aug 9th, 2011, 06:47 AM
While It is necessary for birth to occur, I'm Just worried of what could be the fate of a child in The We're alive universe which usually doesn't go well. :\

archangel
Aug 9th, 2011, 05:26 PM
Scratch was definitely looking for a person at the end of the episode. Not an object.

My reasoning: She says, "Keep looking" right before Bricks calls her over to look at the man's body. When she tells Bricks to put him with the old man, that's when she says she found what she was looking for.

I don't know... the way the comment was worded still bothers me. She sees the man, whether Angel or someone else, and then she says "Put him in with the old man... I found what I was looking for." That pause between the sentences is what bothers me. Wouldn't she have phrased it differently? Wouldn't she have said something like, "There it is (or "There he is"), there's what I was looking for.." or something along those lines? To me, the way she phrased it sounds almost like an afterthought. Almost like she was saying, "Might as well take him along.. I already found what I was looking for." In that case, what she was looking for and the person they found would be unrelated. Just a thought.

By the way Britt, thanks for quoting me in your podcast. It was fun hearing my own quote read back to me.. :))

Jeebogs
Aug 10th, 2011, 07:16 AM
Absolutely brilliant!

Was away and had to wait over a week to listen to the finale, it was killing me! Made it all the sweeter though.

I'm thinking that Kalani the rat situation isn't going to be as cut and dry as "Kalai's the rat because his diary tells me so". What kind of under cover mole keeps a diary of being an under cover mole? If anything it will either be a confession or in some way coded.

Side note, though, in chapter 17 "There might be others" Part 3 (around 9.20) Skittles says he recognise's Kalani, right after saying he ran away from Angel and Kalani at the base because he thought they were the bad people.

mylittlepwny
Aug 14th, 2011, 12:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9_h8XwP4Wg


If Burt ever dies

rayray
Aug 18th, 2011, 03:53 PM
Has any one noted that on the Character profiles Burt is listed as unknown, but both Angel and Saul are listed as Alive. It says specifically under Angels profile "Was on the roof of the tower when it collapsed, and is presumed dead by surviving members of the tower." And all other minor charters are listed as dead unless we heard that they got out.

I think this saves Angel and Saul but Burt is still way up in the air, or splat on the ground? Did they list it that way because they cant say he is alive after he just fell off a bldg? But Angel was almost in the same situation right? and they are saying he is alive.

cupcakezombie
Aug 18th, 2011, 04:13 PM
Has any one noted that on the Character profiles Burt is listed as unknown, but both Angel and Saul are listed as Alive. It says specifically under Angels profile "Was on the roof of the tower when it collapsed, and is presumed dead by surviving members of the tower." And all other minor charters are listed as dead unless we heard that they got out.

I think this saves Angel and Saul but Burt is still way up in the air, or splat on the ground? Did they list it that way because they cant say he is alive after he just fell off a bldg? But Angel was almost in the same situation right? and they are saying he is alive.

The Wiki is updated by members of the forum, not KC. Those status listings reflect the current thoughts and discussions of the forum. Burt is listed as unknown because there is major debate in the as to whether he is alive or dead, and we are assuming that all the minor characters are currently dead.
Also, welcome to the forums!

GD_Elite
Aug 22nd, 2011, 01:44 PM
Okay, like 5th listen through and still new thoughts are coming to me.

Assuming that it Burt and Angel, are still alive. Burt would still be thinking that Angel is the rat. Set up for a situation next season, perhaps?

Saul was definitely thinking about trading Pegs, before seeing sense. Otherwise he wouldn't have lied to Kelly in 23-3.

How would Angel have known that tankers were used to blow up the arena? Maybe this is an inconsistency, but it could also be proof of conversations happening that we arent told about. Still, it seems like talking about the situation of the arena would have been one of the last things that Angel and Saul had to talk about.

Interesting how Pippin was sent in to see if Pegs was there first, rather than to see what the rat was up to. Hmm...

Burt has godly vision in this chapter, seeing things that Michael can't two times.

EDIT: new one - the tower members have got complacent about the zombies. Michael drove to LAX by himself, and Datu was left alone at LAX.

usmcludwig
Aug 22nd, 2011, 09:52 PM
How would Angel have known that tankers were used to blow up the arena?
.

Because Saul reported back what he found when he was checking out the wreckage. Not to mention that all the way back in earlier chapters, they knew the Mallers had access to a couple of tankers.

(Which again, I don't think the tankers were ALWAYS intended on harming the Tower people. I think that they had their own plans before the Tower was even any knowledge to them)

nikvoodoo
Aug 22nd, 2011, 10:01 PM
Burt has godly vision in this chapter, seeing things that Michael can't two times.

One of those two things has to be taken with a grain of salt (Burt ID'ing the RPG and the guy reloading). He had knowledge that the Mallers had his RPG and my guess is he assumed they only had the one device (or unit....whatever you would call that). So once it fired and missed he could say that the Maller was reloading since he knew there was only one on the scene.

I don't remember the other instance at this moment.

GD_Elite
Aug 23rd, 2011, 03:12 AM
Because Saul reported back what he found when he was checking out the wreckage. Not to mention that all the way back in earlier chapters, they knew the Mallers had access to a couple of tankers.

(Which again, I don't think the tankers were ALWAYS intended on harming the Tower people. I think that they had their own plans before the Tower was even any knowledge to them)

Saul didn't radio back to the tower before he spoke to Kelly in 23-3. However the conversation could have happened between then and the beginning of chapter 24.


One of those two things has to be taken with a grain of salt (Burt ID'ing the RPG and the guy reloading). He had knowledge that the Mallers had his RPG and my guess is he assumed they only had the one device (or unit....whatever you would call that). So once it fired and missed he could say that the Maller was reloading since he knew there was only one on the scene.

I don't remember the other instance at this moment.

I already forgot what I meant, but I think I was referring to Burt being able to take the shot on the maller with the RPG when Michael couldn't do it. Also, Angel couldn't even see through the smoke.

EDIT: Just before the RPG hits the towers tanker, Michael says he cant see the mallers, but Burt can. So including shooting the RPG guy, it could be three occasions.

Futuristic_Aussie
Sep 12th, 2011, 11:20 PM
My heart stopped! But only becuase I thought it was either Angel or Michael for some strange reason :/ But I actually liked Kalani even though he frustrated me when him and Angel went out to get the MRE's. May he R.I.P

7oddisdead
Sep 27th, 2011, 12:15 AM
So I haven't relistened to the end since the week of...and I must say hats off to all involved in kalani's "demise"....it still gets to me...and that's coming from a die-hard kalani hater...just needed to say that somewhere..

Minicoop95
Oct 4th, 2011, 08:41 PM
So not sure if its been mentioned yet but who do you think the 2nd person is that the mallers are holding captive? Theres lizzy and......

I personally think its samantha cause they went to the arena... Maybe she somehow survived? Maybe i missed something?

nikvoodoo
Oct 4th, 2011, 08:56 PM
So not sure if its been mentioned yet but who do you think the 2nd person is that the mallers are holding captive? Theres lizzy and......

I personally think its samantha cause they went to the arena... Maybe she somehow survived? Maybe i missed something?

Kc has confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Samantha is dead.

And here's the thread discussing who the second person might be: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2279-Who-is-the-second-person&highlight=person

Minicoop95
Oct 4th, 2011, 09:09 PM
Kc has confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Samantha is dead.

And here's the thread discussing who the second person might be: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2279-Who-is-the-second-person&highlight=person

Thanks for clearing that up.

nikvoodoo
Oct 4th, 2011, 09:13 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem! :)

Welcome to the community!

werewolf
Oct 5th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Iam still holding on to the thought that Angel had made a leap for landing gear of the Jolly Green; and riding it to the new place. I also cant wait until the new season begins.

Zombiphobe
Oct 9th, 2011, 04:56 PM
This episode totally renewed my hatred of Scratch. Here's why:

After the ambush attack on the Maller's convoy, they were only left with six tankers, not enough to completely destroy the Arena like they planned. Yet here we are at the Season Finale and Scratch saved one for the Tower. I was so mad at her for that. I know they still would have been short 2 tankers, but even so, another tanker would have meant more damage and more zombies killed. It might even have been the difference between killing the Colored One and allowing him to escape.

nikvoodoo
Oct 9th, 2011, 05:02 PM
This episode totally renewed my hatred of Scratch. Here's why:

After the ambush attack on the Maller's convoy, they were only left with six tankers, not enough to completely destroy the Arena like they planned. Yet here we are at the Season Finale and Scratch saved one for the Tower. I was so mad at her for that. I know they still would have been short 2 tankers, but even so, another tanker would have meant more damage and more zombies killed. It might even have been the difference between killing the Colored One and allowing him to escape.

So long as there is only one Pimp Ass Zombie (It's Paul, The Man in the Pinstriped Suit, The Colored One, The Marked One etc etc) then he wasn't at the arena when it was attacked. He was somewhere South of there after the ambush he led against the Maller Convoy.

Zombiphobe
Oct 10th, 2011, 06:40 PM
Well, I have yet to make up my mind about the theory that there is only one Pimp Ass Zombie, but from what I read in the forums, one of the requirements to have one Pimp Ass Zombie is that it would need to be super fast. Surely fast enough to beat a convoy of tankers that stopped to regroup along the way.

dontkillburt
Oct 12th, 2011, 11:01 PM
You all may not like Scratch because she seems (for whatever reason) to have it in for the tower folk, but at least she had the cajones to also take it to the zombies at their own crib. She is one pissed off woman...and to make it all the worse, now she apparently has what she was looking for. That most likely spells bigtime trouble for our tower friends.

And as there are apparently more than one rat running around inside the tower nest, there are no doubt more than one PAZ running around L.A.