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View Full Version : Chapter 21- "Mark of the Beast" - Part 3



nikvoodoo
May 8th, 2011, 11:59 PM
Mark of the Beast closes out in just about 9 hours from now. Thread is posted, lets get excited people!

shananala8
May 9th, 2011, 12:05 AM
Get excited? I haven't stopped being excited since this chapter started!

rottenash
May 9th, 2011, 12:06 AM
woot woot!! it 12hrs it will be on the iphone... 14hrs i'll be cruising into work WA style!

Walrusgus
May 9th, 2011, 02:35 AM
I don;t know if I have been as amped for an episode before!

Hellbringer
May 9th, 2011, 04:03 AM
I have to wait until I get home from work, which means this thread will be about 10 pages in by the time I finally get to listen to it. Still looking forward to finding out what Scratch's weapon will be.

BoomerXL
May 9th, 2011, 04:46 AM
Can't wait for this to come out, I work afternoons on Mondays so I don't get to listen to it until later tonight....stupid work

timberwoof
May 9th, 2011, 05:03 AM
Cool... I'm subscribed.

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 08:40 AM
Just making some notes:
Awesome. We learn a bit more about Pippin's back story. (whether true or false).
Burt makes a note about a Hawaiian Airline that had crashed on the tarmac.

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 09:02 AM
Just making some notes:
Awesome. We learn a bit more about Pippin's back story. (whether true or false).
Burt makes a note about a Hawaiian Airline that had crashed on the tarmac.

Yes. Very Cool. Now so many unanswered questions!!! We still don't know what's happening with the mallers. But I guess the my biggest question is who attacked the helicopter? Mallers? And how many slaves do they have? It seems like A LOT!!! I NEED MORE!!

Pikepaw
May 9th, 2011, 09:24 AM
'No stopping in the white zone" I LOVE THAT AIRPLANE REFERENCE! Yes Burt you rule!!!!!!

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 09:25 AM
So... Do we trust Pippen yet? Do you think the Mallers would go through all this trouble to fabricate a fake passport, a character back-story, and then beat the shit outta him, just to get the drop on the Tower???

Arkum
May 9th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Seeing as how the bird got bullet holes, I gotta think either Mallers or a smaller faction, maybe just an armed group of people wanting to get on and told no it was full. So they decided to shoot it out and the chopper got disabled in the process.

My question is this, wouldn't the rain have washed away the blood? So was this incident recent? Or did I make up the rain? I seem to remember it pouring in a previous episode.

And in regards to Pippin, I like that they are being cautious with him and not just giving him a big hug and letting him sit at the dinner table. I still don't trust him.

AdrianHD
May 9th, 2011, 09:44 AM
The first idea that popped into my head when the chopper was shot was that whoever the mole was let Durai know about the Tower's plans. Though, it's up in the air.

Pippen still sounds sketchy, thankfully the Tower is as suspicious as we are and aren't letting him by easy.

mush_rooms
May 9th, 2011, 09:50 AM
Not a lot of action during this part, and now we have even MORE unanswered questions, but Burt doing the Airplane! bit made up for everything. I have to say, and I'm not sure I've mentioned this before, I love the sense of humor on this show. So I guess that means: KC, I love your sense of humor. Keep it up, I really enjoy the little comedy bits that break up all of the serious business.

bequita
May 9th, 2011, 09:56 AM
This just in-Burt's the dad Saul never had.
In other breaking news, Kelly doesn't think Pippen is lying. Michael's trying not to become the gatekeeper, and Saul is still human.

It wasn't the episode we were expecting at all, I think. But it was pretty good. And now we know the mall was close to LAX.

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 09:59 AM
So... Do we trust Pippen yet? Do you think the Mallers would go through all this trouble to fabricate a fake passport, a character back-story, and then beat the shit outta him, just to get the drop on the Tower???
Really, at this point, if I hadn't noticed Scratch say she was dropping off Pippin, I wouldn't have been so suspicious. However, since she mentions him specifically, and that she was "dropping him off", I'm highly suspicious.


My question is this, wouldn't the rain have washed away the blood? So was this incident recent? Or did I make up the rain? I seem to remember it pouring in a previous episode.
The helicopter was inside a hangar. Roof overhead. No rain to wash it away. (and yes rain occurred previously)

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Did anyone else think about the airplane jokes that were chosen? The abortion skit? Do you think it's a little hint, or foreshadowing of someone's pregnancy? or maybe a tragedy that will befall a beloved character after she learns she is pregnant? (For example in the style of the movie Seven) This would mean right after Saul discovers Lizzy is preggers, one of them dies... Hope not...

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 10:03 AM
Did anyone else think about the airplane jokes that were chosen? The abortion skit? Do you think it's a little hint, or foreshadowing of someone's pregnancy? or maybe a tragedy that will befall a beloved character after she learns she is pregnant? (For example in the style of the movie Seven) This would mean right after Saul discovers Lizzy is preggers, one of them dies... Hope not...

Although that is an interesting, some jokes are there just as jokes. I haven't seen a cop yet hell bent on revenge for his wife and child (Road Warrior). But you never know. Zombie baby!

Edit: Here's the Whitezone Redzone battle from Airplane!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvdNCDVmRPo

Also, I laughed at the airplane reference, because of the major joke from it about Shirley.

WestonWisdom
May 9th, 2011, 10:03 AM
Unless I am mistaken, it said join us again Monday at the end?

AdrianHD
May 9th, 2011, 10:05 AM
Unless I am mistaken, it said join us again Monday at the end?

It did, but the iTunes description said come back May 23rd.

bequita
May 9th, 2011, 10:05 AM
I was hoping for a little Gipper speech! But abortion jokes will have to do I suppose.

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 10:06 AM
This just in-Burt's the dad Saul never had.
In other breaking news, Kelly doesn't think Pippen is lying. Michael's trying not to become the gatekeeper, and Saul is still human.

It wasn't the episode we were expecting at all, I think. But it was pretty good. And now we know the mall was close to LAX.

Kelly isn't sure Pippin is lying. She can't get a read on his face because he got beat to hell so badly. The one key element missing from Pip's escape story from the Mallers is what prompted him to get beat so badly? Were they just done with them? That seems like a vital piece of information that wasn't really discussed in that little meeting there. Had that come out, I'd be far more inclined to believe Pippin's story. And I'm very glad the Tower is done assuming things. Just because it seems impossible to create a forgery doesn't mean its impossible to find a British passport somewhere in LA. We know the mallers have searched up and down and far and wide for things and their territory is pretty vast. They might have found something.

Another interesting point is the conversation about ID's and carrying them. Michael and Kelly don't, but Lizzy still did. So....wonder how many more people in the Tower are like Lizzy or like M/K?

Some aspect of Kalani's backstory is true...now its just a matter of figuring out if Kalani is who he says he is. :p

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 10:09 AM
Some aspect of Kalani's backstory is true...now its just a matter of figuring out if Kalani is who he says he is. :p

I noticed that too. I'm trying to look up Kalani's story, but I thought he had said a SMALL plane that only seated about 10 people. Burt's description made it sound like a larger plane.

Edit: Burt really doesn't describe the plane, but any "airline" plane generally seats way more than 10. I had a really small flight once with only 50 people

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 10:11 AM
Just because it seems impossible to create a forgery doesn't mean its impossible to find a British passport somewhere in LA. We know the mallers have searched up and down and far and wide for things and their territory is pretty vast. They might have found something.

Good call Voodoo. Maybe the Mallers beat the shit out of his face because he didn't look exactly like the passport, and they didn't want the tower to catch on!

nate of the dead
May 9th, 2011, 10:12 AM
Kind of upset that they didnt touch base with the mallers and what they did to the arena? Are they safe? Did they achieve their objective? How pissed off is Ink going to be that his arena was burned down?

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 10:14 AM
Or... Pippen IS really who he says he is, but the mallers are holding his family as ransom until he betrays the tower. ;)

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 10:14 AM
Good call Voodoo. Maybe the Mallers beat the shit out of his face because he didn't look exactly like the passport, and they didn't want the tower to catch on!

If that is the case, Pippin has about 2-3 days before the swelling goes down and his face turns back to "normal." Meaning if he is a Maller plant, he's gonna have to shake his security detail pretty quick to accomplish whatever it is he was sent to do.

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 10:16 AM
Kind of upset that they didnt touch base with the mallers and what they did to the arena? Are they safe? Did they achieve their objective? How pissed off is Ink going to be that his arena was burned down?

First off, welcome!
Second, we'll probably get back to some details about that next chapter. That's how the teasers work!

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 10:16 AM
Kind of upset that they didnt touch base with the mallers and what they did to the arena? Are they safe? Did they achieve their objective? How pissed off is Ink going to be that his arena was burned down?

If you believe Tardust, there's no way they achieved their objective. They didn't have enough tankers to completely destroy the Arena. And yeah, I would have liked to see what happened to Lizzy/Tar/Bricks but that's a story better left untold for the moment apparently.

bequita
May 9th, 2011, 10:19 AM
I wonder how much time has passed since the explosion. It sounded like they've interrogated him for a while, and Burt/Saul have traveled from the mall to LAX.

Cusmar350
May 9th, 2011, 10:23 AM
Was anyone else a little underwhelmed by the end of this chapter? Don't get me wrong, I really liked it, but I was expecting a little more. Ah well, I can't wait for the next chapter!

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Was anyone else a little underwhelmed by the end of this chapter? Don't get me wrong, I really liked it, but I was expecting a little more. Ah well, I can't wait for the next chapter!

The second part seemed more the climatic element to this chapter.

Cusmar350
May 9th, 2011, 10:28 AM
Or even the first part with the epic ambush! Guess they wanted to finish the chapter on a more quiet note to set up the the next chapter.

Arkum
May 9th, 2011, 10:30 AM
The helicopter was inside a hangar. Roof overhead. No rain to wash it away. (and yes rain occurred previously)

Oh yeah it was inside. Good call, forgot about that.

One of em calls out "MP5 over here" or something similar, if I am remembering correctly. Maybe a hint, since I think that is a weapon the Colony had on hand when they were escaping. Not thiat its an uncommon weapon type, and maybe I'm looking for connections that aren't there, but thought I'd bring it up for discussion.

Cusmar350
May 9th, 2011, 10:33 AM
So was the helicopter ambushed by people with guns or what? Was that what Burt meant when he said the helicopter had 'its wings clipped?'

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 10:35 AM
So was the helicopter ambushed by people with guns or what? Was that what Burt meant when he said the helicopter had 'its wings clipped?'

Yeah, from what I was getting, the helicopter was going to take off, when it was shot-up and the passengers were all either murdered and/or taken as slaves...

Cutting-T
May 9th, 2011, 10:39 AM
So was the helicopter ambushed by people with guns or what? Was that what Burt meant when he said the helicopter had 'its wings clipped?'

Here is an explenation:

People in Helicopter, zombies attacks, people try to defend selves and take off, helicopter shot and damaged (by whom?That is what we 'should' find out next episode, can zombies shoot guns? Is someone working with the zombies? An accident?)

Also sometimes, when keeping poultry, farmers will 'clip' the wings of its livestock to prevent it from flying off, this is just a metaphor saying that the helicopter can't fly anymore.


The thing that makes me dubious, who the hell has 'Pippin' on their passport, it sounds like a maller-nickname for a Brit inmate as opposed to a real name, if it is one then it is EXTREMELY uncommon as I have never come across it before in my life.


Or... Pippen IS really who he says he is, but the mallers are holding his family as ransom until he betrays the tower. ;)

Though I was thinking something like this could've been the case ever since the first time we were introduced to Pippin, the cliffhanger ending, but now I'm more dubious, especially with has feverish and nervous (in the wrong way) behaviour.



Too many new questions, WHAT HAPPENED TO LIZZY!!!!

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 10:44 AM
So was the helicopter ambushed by people with guns or what? Was that what Burt meant when he said the helicopter had 'its wings clipped?'

What he meant by that was the gasoline tank was shot. That was the dried up red liquid that leaked out they were mentioning. Meaning this particular bird can't fly anymore.

As for how that ambush worked......that's a great question. It either means there had been a perimeter that got broken through by zombies and humans turned their gunfire inwards towards the helicopter, it was human on human violence, or the scariest thought: Zombies are packin' heat :p

Cusmar350
May 9th, 2011, 10:59 AM
I got the whole couldn't fly thing, but I forgot that the gasoline tank was hit. I suppose the next question is: WTF happened?

Kc
May 9th, 2011, 11:00 AM
Really, at this point, if I hadn't noticed Scratch say she was dropping off Pippin, I wouldn't have been so suspicious. However, since she mentions him specifically, and that she was "dropping him off", I'm highly suspicious.


The helicopter was inside a hangar. Roof overhead. No rain to wash it away. (and yes rain occurred previously)

Helicopter was not in Hanger...

Bulldog711
May 9th, 2011, 11:18 AM
OK.....going back to something Britt mentioned on We're Not Dead...... Pippen's accent is totally FUGAZI! along with his name. Less than .1% of the English population sound anything like Pippen.......its a fake accent which is needed to match up with the passport given to him and I think voodoo is onto something with the bloodied and bruised face being created so no one would notice that the passport photo does not match our pseudo-englishman.......who carries ID with them after all of this, and wouldn't the mallers have taken all personal belongings off the slaves and the captured?

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 11:24 AM
OK.....going back to something Britt mentioned on We're Not Dead...... Pippen's accent is totally FUGAZI! along with his name. Less than .1% of the English population sound anything like Pippen.......its a fake accent which is needed to match up with the passport given to him and I think voodoo is onto something with the bloodied and bruised face being created so no one would notice that the passport photo does not match our pseudo-englishman.......who carries ID with them after all of this, and wouldn't the mallers have taken all personal belongings off the slaves and the captured?

I will not take credit for Rock Daddy's theory about beating Pippin's face in because his face doesn't match the passport pic. He is the one who put that together. And remember: Lizzy carried her ID out of the Tower and it saved her from becoming a slave right off the bat because she wasn't on the list....it did sadly turn her into rape fodder, so I don't know if that worked out exactly as she had planned.

Now, regarding Pippin's accent/interrogation: Something stuck out to me as I relistened to the episode again. Pippin is really....pretty angry sounding about the whole thing. There was a total lack of pleading in his voice. Now, I don't know how I'd personally react to an interrogation during a zombie apocalypse where the result might be I get expelled from a secure location but I don't think I'd take such an aggressive tone. Seems to me that would put people on the defensive and make them even less likely to believe my true story....

....unless of course the story I'm telling isn't true and I'm getting angry that my story telling isn't going as well as I planned. I wish we had heard the very first round of questioning in addition to the the last.

Adventureless_Hero
May 9th, 2011, 11:27 AM
Hmmm...damn. I'm not sure if I can trust Pippin. I'm normally a gulla-bull and a maroon, but I want to believe Pippins story. But I just can't get over Scratch saying, "I have to go drop Pippin off." Why call him out on a first name basis? Why didn't she say, "I have to go toss this piece of shit out." Fishy...

Plus I was real big on believing that Kelly was the mole. If she's covering for Pippin, saying she can't see that he's lying, she's doing a hell of a job being not to quick to side with him. Grrrrr.... I really thought this episode would have the mole revealed! Shite!

Well, I'm glad Burt was there for a good laugh. And it was DAMN good to hear a bit of the ol' Saul (or Saul 2.0). The image of a blood soaked tarmac in an empty major airport gave me chills. Great episode...it wasn't action packed, but it was still beefy. Thanks KC! I only wish that when Michael Swann said, "Join us again Monday for the next episode of We're Alive." that it was true!

Arkum
May 9th, 2011, 11:32 AM
helicopter was not in hanger...

salvation!!!!!!

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 11:56 AM
So I'm assuming that the "red fluid" is hydraulic fluid (Class 3 Leak for the other Military types out there LOL) which would make the helicopter inoperable (Deadlined for the Mil types again). The MP5 could be from the pilot, some aviation units give pilots MP5's or M4's as they are smaller and can be stowed away easier and still operate the aircraft. If I were a betting man I'd guess that the MP5 came from the crew defending itself from someone or something.

Pippin is still a total rat! I like the idea that was mentioned earlier about the mallers beating the shit out of him so he matches the photo of a found or forged passport, but that begs the question on why Scratch still called him Pippin in the earlier episode (possible explanation is that he was getting in "character").

I agree that, sure this wasn't the most action packed episode, but it is laying alot of groundwork for the future chapters.

I loved the Airplane! reference though LOL

Arkum
May 9th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Couldn't Burt replace the blown hose if he could find suitable parts?

Assuming its a hole in a hose not the tank itself. Its risk trying to work on the heli in the open like that, but what other options are there? I have to assume an airport mechanic hanger has the material to make new hoses. I make hydraulic hoses at work all the time for custom applications, its a real easy machine to operate.

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 12:07 PM
I'd guess that it could be easy to replace with a proper mechanic and if the leak was in an easily accessible spot but if it is damage from small arms fire that hose isn't the only thing that's going to be damaged.

On a side note I'm not a Helicopter Mechanic so I could just be talking out of my ass on this but I met a few in the Army and they had to go through a ton of training. I did ride on a many many helicopters during my time in and learned enough to say that they are fragile fickle creatures that even the smallest of malfunctions could deadline the entire arircraft.

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 12:12 PM
helicopter was not in hangar...

Grr.. I need to check my hearing (this is why I listen to each episode multiple times) Also, if I would have thought about it, helicopters almost never go in hangars because of their aerial takeoff.

Which given that, it was most likely recent. (Given weather, and no description of scent)

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Grr.. I need to check my hearing (this is why I listen to each episode multiple times) Also, if I would have thought about it, helicopters almost never go in hangars because of their aerial takeoff.

Which given that, it was most likely recent. (Given weather, and no description of scent)

You do put them in hangars (that's why they have wheels) so don't beat yourself up to much ;)

Rock Daddy
May 9th, 2011, 12:16 PM
Grr.. I need to check my hearing (this is why I listen to each episode multiple times) Also, if I would have thought about it, helicopters almost never go in hangars because of their aerial takeoff.

Good point J0be. Now this just raises my curiousity... With the helicopter being outside with all that gore, blood, and leaking helicopter fluid still there, it means this attack happened very recently... But how recently...??

j0be
May 9th, 2011, 12:16 PM
You do put them in hangars (that's why they have wheels) so don't beat yourself up to much ;)

Yeah, and I guess what I meant is if they were trying to land / take off they wouldn't have been in a hangar.

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 12:18 PM
Yeah, and I guess what I meant is if they were trying to land / take off they wouldn't have been in a hangar.

I was thinking it was in a hangar as well, there was an echo while they were checking it out and I just assumed that they were in one of those huge aluminium hangars

Bulldog711
May 9th, 2011, 12:22 PM
Another question is; Who was in the helicopter? Military/coast guard personel or just some survivors taking a gamble trying to fly a chopper like the tower is trying to do?

Arkum
May 9th, 2011, 12:23 PM
I like the Durai theory. Either he took it out after they found it drenched in carnage, seeing as they didn't need it for his plan. Or he was trying to get it for the Mallers and all hell broke loose and they ended up accidentally damaging it. I can see either scenario happening so don't want to plant my flag in one just yet.

Anyone else get the feeling this episode told us more in a subtle way that maybe we haven't all picked up on yet. Gonna listen a few more times.

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 12:49 PM
For anyone interested I think the Helicopter that's mentioned is the Sikorsky S92. I'm not sure what the Coast Guard designator is but Burt mentioned that it was "Big, one of the bigest that we could have hoped for". Unless anyone else knows better I think that this is the biggest bird that the USCG has... unless it isn't the USCG (cue the suspense music)

Kc
May 9th, 2011, 01:15 PM
For anyone interested I think the Helicopter that's mentioned is the Sikorsky S92. I'm not sure what the Coast Guard designator is but Burt mentioned that it was "Big, one of the bigest that we could have hoped for". Unless anyone else knows better I think that this is the biggest bird that the USCG has... unless it isn't the USCG (cue the suspense music)
You're close, but it's not that one. The exact type will be revealed later. The reason for the echo, is because it's rather large on the inside.

cupcakezombie
May 9th, 2011, 01:34 PM
I am a bit worried that it sounded like Saul left his bag in the ground to run to the helicopter. If they have to make a quick get away, he might have to leave it behind.
Note that they say that the blood etc is all dried up. That means a day or so, depending on how warm it is. Also with the bodies all gone it means that the zombies have been there to clean up, but before or after the arena... I guess before, but who knows. Wonder if there were any footprints or drag marks in the blood. Anything to indicate how long after the fight the bodies were removed, also if there were any survivors etc.

Also, I like that this was a quieter episode in terms of 'action', much to ponder for the next couple of weeks. I also agree with the earlier post, I think so much of this episode will end up being more significant then we first thought.

TheNomad
May 9th, 2011, 01:36 PM
Blood isn't gonna just wash away with rain. Have you ever tried to clean up blood? You need cleaning supplies for that..

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 02:05 PM
You're close, but it's not that one. The exact type will be revealed later. The reason for the echo, is because it's rather large on the inside.

That piques my intrest KC... I'm gonna guess MH/SH 53 then? If that's the case I'm excited that it has USCG markings on it... Plot develpoment then? (Or I just didn't know that the USCG has them lol)

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 9th, 2011, 02:12 PM
I've never been so pissed off at the end of a "We're Alive" episode. Not so much that I didn't enjoy it, more like I was expecting a bit more resolution in regards to what happened to Lizzy and the other two. I guess I've been spoiled by having twenty full episodes to listen to (of which I got through in about a two day stretch) but these one - two week breaks between parts is brutal.

Anywho, looks like they aren't going anywhere soon and in regards to the helicopter being shot up, maybe there was a struggle for control of the helicopter at one point but then they were ambushed by the "zombies" or there are "zombies" that are now capable of wielding weapons (guns, etc.) or perhaps it was just a case of gunfire during the seemingly bloody ambush.

Even though this was used by the U.S. Army, if it's a large helicopter I'll take a guess (after some googling) that it might have been a Sikorsky S-61R or a Sikorsky MH-53. It sure looks damn big =P

clarkie
May 9th, 2011, 02:21 PM
I might be reading way to deeply into this, but with the Airplane reference I picked up two things:
- Abortion - possible hint towards Lizzy's (possible) pregnancy? (Think this has already been mentioned.)
- Also, in Airplane doesn't someone with no commercial flying experience end up having to land the plane? Perhaps this is a hint to a future event in which something happens to one of the towers pilots mid-flight and someone else has to land. Or maybe it's just a nod to the fact that someone with little/no flying experience will have to fly one of the copters anyway...

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 02:26 PM
Even though this was used by the U.S. Army, if it's a large helicopter I'll take a guess (after some googling) that it might have been a Sikorsky S-61R or a Sikorsky MH-53. It sure looks damn big =P

Saul said "Coast Guard" when he saw the aircraft. And I may be reading into this but the fact that it wasn't the S-92 has me a bit excited, and maybe looking into the conspiratorial undertones of the Outbreak. To the best of my knowledge the USCG doesn't have any SH-53's (neither does the Army, mainly it's a Navy/USMC and USAF aircraft).

I don't want to come off at the stickler for the "true to life" details I know that in this format KC has to take for dramatic and stylized liberties with military tactics/technology (such as the claymores "beeping" for the dramatic effect) but this could be a big clue in this episode.

Or it may be me reading into stuff LOL!!

Blood & Ice Cream
May 9th, 2011, 02:54 PM
when i heard kalani mention helicopters, the first thing that i thought of was the coast guard, but i thought the biggest helicopter they use is a Jayhawk (max 10 people tops), unless its an old HH-3F Pelican (carry all of the tower occupants)

btw - the coast guard does have a base at LAX, but thats for the smaller Dolphin helicopters

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 02:55 PM
Saul said "Coast Guard" when he saw the aircraft. And I may be reading into this but the fact that it wasn't the S-92 has me a bit excited, and maybe looking into the conspiratorial undertones of the Outbreak. To the best of my knowledge the USCG doesn't have any SH-53's (neither does the Army, mainly it's a Navy/USMC and USAF aircraft).


It is an interesting point and one not too many people would be able to readily make. Now, could it be for dramatic effect? Sure, writers always have free license to create what ever reality that they want.

But that might be an explanation as to why that chopper is riddled with bullet holes and why mp5 casings are on the ground. If the dolled up Military chopper to look like USCG was used to disperse whatever started this whole mess that could be a good enough reason to start a fire fight with anyone. And mp5's I know are used by law enforcement in some cities....I just don't know what the LAPD 's weapon of choice is.

However, I think it's best to speculate more once Kc reveals the exact model of helicopter it was as he said he would. But I'd certainly stick a flag in this theory in case it holds water. Then you get to say I told you so to many a peeps if they come to fight you on it.

HardKor
May 9th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Or... Pippen IS really who he says he is, but the mallers are holding his family as ransom until he betrays the tower. ;)
Interesting point. In 20-3 Scratch did say "we still have her" in the middle of the Pippen/Rat conversation with Tardust. I'd been thinking maybe "her" was the original rat's family member and was being held hostage, but she could be someone who was with Pippin. He did say he was camping with friends.

WestonWisdom
May 9th, 2011, 03:24 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned so far, but perhaps the shooting of the helicopters fuel supply was a de facto quarantine? Not enough time for ritual slaughter, just pop a few rounds into the neighboring helicopter whilst taking off.

As for the lack of zombie clean-up, we have to presume that the zombies are at least semi-concerned with self preservation, an open area like that would be too risky to clean up, there could easily be people watching from the aircraft control tower etc.

HardKor
May 9th, 2011, 03:33 PM
As for the lack of zombie clean-up, we have to presume that the zombies are at least semi-concerned with self preservation, an open area like that would be too risky to clean up, there could easily be people watching from the aircraft control tower etc.
The zombies have only ever cleaned up the bodies not the blood. And really how long has it been since the last rain storm? It was pretty early on in the story I think. So the attack on the helicopter could have happened as far as a couple of months back.

WestonWisdom
May 9th, 2011, 03:37 PM
The zombies have only ever cleaned up the bodies not the blood. And really how long has it been since the last rain storm? It was pretty early on in the story I think. So the attack on the helicopter could have happened as far as a couple of months back.

Have we ever seen human corpse/zombie interaction?

Sorry, I have only had the chance to listen once,but I distinctly remember there being no mention of the smell, perhaps the corpses being dragged back were human, if it was even blood to begin with.

wh33t
May 9th, 2011, 03:39 PM
This episode was painful. Just more questions to answer!

Kc
May 9th, 2011, 03:50 PM
The zombies have only ever cleaned up the bodies not the blood. And really how long has it been since the last rain storm? Playing a little devil's advocate here. Someone google blood stains and concrete.

bvglee
May 9th, 2011, 03:52 PM
The episode is fine, no action but some developements on current situations, and hints about future events.

Pippin is a mole, maybe blackmailed into it, but a mole anyway. The only unlikely occurence that could make some one innocent end in his position is if Scratch used him as a expendable distraction to lure Z's away from the mallers convoy (she DO knows the zombies are attracted to smell, she said it when she tortured the poor bastard that she blamed for the lost of the first tanker), but his own story eliminated that possibility. The Mallers are up to something and he's part of it, maybe even has to make contact with the other mole (like that soviet spy that faked a defection just to warn a mole in US intelligence) and join him/her for some mischiev. If Michael is as good at Intel like he says, he should set him up (without telling ANYONE) to see if he falls and then let him be if he's innocent, and shoot him, or use him as a double spy, with or without his knowledge, if he's guilty (I mean WHEN his guilt is proven!)

The chopper part is pretty obvious, during outbreak the crew of the last helicopter fought the zombies using their issued smg's, lost and got overrun, that's why there are no bodies but scattered brass and bodyparts (Saul even mentions that part of the pilot remains in the helmet) and the bird got damaged by a stray burst in the firefight. If the chopper is USCG, and as big as Burt pictures it, I think it is a HH-3F, I don't know if your CG still uses them, but some could be brought back for rescue operations during the crisis.

If most helo flights are from Venice or other place the best bet could be a small party on a cessna in an "airfield hoping" recon, looking for a better aircraft and fuel (a la Day By Day Armageddon), and look for signs of Lizzie like Saul suggested while on it.

TCM Revolver
May 9th, 2011, 03:58 PM
The zombies have only ever cleaned up the bodies not the blood. And really how long has it been since the last rain storm? It was pretty early on in the story I think. So the attack on the helicopter could have happened as far as a couple of months back.

Blood is very hard to clean off of concrete. you have to use hydrogen peroxide and other heavy cleaners. Wouldn't just come up with the rain. I don't know this from experience or anything...or do I? :D

HardKor
May 9th, 2011, 03:59 PM
Playing a little devil's advocate here. Someone google blood stains and concrete.

...And I must do as Kc requests...
http://www.ehow.com/how_4557357_remove-blood-stains-from-concrete.html

Kc
May 9th, 2011, 04:01 PM
...And I must do as Kc requests...
http://www.ehow.com/how_4557357_remove-blood-stains-from-concrete.html
Thanks! I just wanted to make sure people didn't think it would wash away with rain.

Eitri
May 9th, 2011, 04:05 PM
Yea good idea, lets clean the area around the helicopter, thats broken then return home with empty hands. Its always a good idea to do your house cleaning before killing zombies, then having to do the house cleaning again cause blood got on the carpet and driveway.
i rest my case

Wicked Sid
May 9th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Pippin is not a mole, he's no rat, nor is he there for sabotage. It makes no sense within the Mallers' immediate plan. His story and his wounds corroborate this fact.

What do they have to gain from dropping him off if they are just moving anyway?

bvglee
May 9th, 2011, 04:53 PM
Pippin is not a mole, he's no rat, nor is he there for sabotage. It makes no sense within the Mallers' immediate plan. His story and his wounds corroborate this fact.

What do they have to gain from dropping him off if they are just moving anyway?

Sorry Sid, from Scratch first mention, to the circumstances of his "escape" and arrival to the tower, that "Peregrin" guy smells fishy. The cross interrogation was a good move and during it most of the reasonable concerns were shown. I still say: "Set him up and see what happens".

Wicked Sid
May 9th, 2011, 05:23 PM
Sorry Sid, from Scratch first mention, to the circumstances of his "escape" and arrival to the tower, that "Peregrin" guy smells fishy. The cross interrogation was a good move and during it most of the reasonable concerns were shown. I still say: "Set him up and see what happens".

To take this to fair trial, it is Your responsibility to prove that he is guilty not mine to prove he's innocent.

With that in mind, I ask again, How would it fit into the Mallers' plan? He has an European passport, wounds which passed him to unrecognizable, and there's no evidence nor are there visual cues that lead me to believe that Pippin is a mole.

You make note of Scratch's mention of Pippin, just because she dropped him off and sought to make mention of her action of 'dropping Pippin off,' means that she's rather have a quick, true, reason to validate her leaving of the Mall/Caravan. It is highly likely that, as you mentioned, he was used to ease the weight of the caravans' movements. Scratch and co. have no solid ideas about the smells but they obviously know that an easy target is a lot more enticing than trying to attack a rather large group of well armed, slightly trained and dangerous enemies, which lead them to speculate that the Zeds have common sense enough to know this as well (as shown by their previous experiences).

Within the construct of the cross-interrogation, which was conducted by Victor and Michael with Kelly as an observer, there were no visible cues which lead a trained Lawyer, a trained Soldier, and a well tuned civilian to solidly believe that the subject of the interrogation was not truthful. Victor, as I speculate now, sounds to have some training within the realm of interrogation (i.e. He sounds a lot like a trained, albeit rookie Detective). Maybe he's just really good at questioning, but this small piece of evidence shows, although limited to speculation, that no one in that room would have missed anything that could have exposed him if he were anything but truthful. Your move.

Mikethebassist
May 9th, 2011, 05:26 PM
...And I must do as Kc requests...
http://www.ehow.com/how_4557357_remove-blood-stains-from-concrete.html

Anything with more than one or two steps I doubt Zombies can handle. This episode was very good, Not much action, Burt is freaking hilarious. Pippin is being very defensive about where he came from. I believe he is def. a spy.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 9th, 2011, 05:31 PM
Saul said "Coast Guard" when he saw the aircraft. And I may be reading into this but the fact that it wasn't the S-92 has me a bit excited, and maybe looking into the conspiratorial undertones of the Outbreak. To the best of my knowledge the USCG doesn't have any SH-53's (neither does the Army, mainly it's a Navy/USMC and USAF aircraft).

Yeah, it was a guess for the SH-53's but I think the S-61Rs are used by US Coast Guard (wiki says its "Active Service" as well). ;)

bvglee
May 9th, 2011, 05:54 PM
Hey, easy Sid-man!

I'm just saying it's highly unlikely that he's innocent, I was thinking he was just another Mallers victim, until he came with his story during his interrogation, it does not fit with what we knew beforehand, that "I faked being wasted and then ran for it" seems pretty flimsy (at least to me). And the interrogation showed us (the audience), the Tower leadership "reasonable concerns" on the matter.

The Mallers are up to something, they have a broader scale plan that they set into motion recently, it includes the Arena attack, their trip "Down South" and maybe, juuuust maybe, a mole in the tower for later use, I'm sure we will know soon. I still see a slim chance of him being innocent, that's why I said "Test him", just to make sure before letting him roam freely in the Tower, or trowing him to Zack.

And nop, this is not a Trial, where he is innocent until proven guilty. It's a survival situaton where, for the safety of the group, he is a threat, until proven otherwise.

Arkum
May 9th, 2011, 05:57 PM
To take this to fair trial, it is Your responsibility to prove that he is guilty not mine to prove he's innocent.[/U]

It is now a state of marshal law. The civili liberties of the old country are long gone. In a survival of the fittest world, your always guilty first.

Omegaflow88
May 9th, 2011, 06:57 PM
This episode was short IMO. It might hold me over until next chapter. I want pippin to be good. I don't think he sounds bad. When I first heard datto I thought it sounded forced but I in the end loved it. I was bummed to hear nothing about the explotion of the arena. I don't care for mixed up time lines.

The chopper being all shot up and what not just made it sound like survivors were trying to leave and zombies attacked them. Due to a miss fire by a human put a hole in the gas tank and the towers hopes. Also explains why there is no bodies.

Wicked Sid
May 9th, 2011, 07:08 PM
It is now a state of marshal law. The civili liberties of the old country are long gone. In a survival of the fittest world, your always guilty first.

This is the realm of OoC debate, the rules set within the We're Alive universe have no bearing here whatsoever.

Tandem25
May 9th, 2011, 07:25 PM
At about 2:50 douchebag err Pippin gives his account of his "getaway". He makes no mention of getting a gun. Where did his gun come from?
Answer: Scratch. When she dropped him off to infiltrate the tower.

Wicked Sid
May 9th, 2011, 07:31 PM
At about 2:50 douchebag err Pippin gives his account of his "getaway". He makes no mention of getting a gun. Where did his gun come from?
Answer: Scratch. When she dropped him off to infiltrate the tower.

That's exactly the same as saying "Skittles got his gun from Scratch too" because we have no idea where he got his either.

Maybe he found it off of a dead body. Maybe he found one left in a store (shop owner's). There are quite a few other options from which he could have aquired a gun.

MrScott101
May 9th, 2011, 07:39 PM
I'd be hesitant of pippen just because of his affiliation with the mallers regardless of whether or not he was on good terms with them. At the same time we still don't know what Durai's plan is and for all we know, the mallers might think the tower has some good weapons and food supply for them to scrounge. Also take in that they are taking slaves and the tower has 20-30 good candidates for that aspect.

Maybe the chopper is one from the colony, such one of the last ones to leave and not come back? Maybe it's now being used as bait or trap for the zombies?

Tandem25
May 9th, 2011, 07:46 PM
That's exactly the same as saying "Skittles got his gun from Scratch too" because we have no idea where he got his either.

Maybe he found it off of a dead body. Maybe he found one left in a store (shop owner's). There are quite a few other options from which he could have aquired a gun.

It's not quite the same. Skittles has been scrounging since it all began. We know that Pippen had a finite amount of time to get from the drop off point (and we know he was dropped off - his first obvious lie) to the tower. If he just happened to find a weapon in that short time then... I agree with you. It is possible. Not probable. But possible.

nikvoodoo
May 9th, 2011, 08:13 PM
There's something I've been meaning to bring up about those whoa re saying Pippin got beat up so he obviously isn't working with the Mallers. There's an episode of Burn Notice where Michael Weston is about to be put in a cell with a Russian human trafficker and in order to sell his cover ID he had to be punched in the face legitimately 3 or 4 times. Because as he put it if you're going to be up close and personal with someone who needs to believe you've been beat up there's no way to get around that except to actually be punched in the face.

Just throwing that out there.

cupcakezombie
May 9th, 2011, 09:09 PM
I think the main assumption we are making, in the case of Pippen, is that he was dropped off at the tower. We don't know where Scratch dropped Pippin off. It could be that he was a slave being dropped off back at the mall, having been punished for something else, and then he got away.
I am not saying that is the case. But just that we are running with the assumption that because Scratch mentioned him, he is on their side.

ComradeNarf
May 9th, 2011, 09:17 PM
Certainly a possibility, but if Pippen were a slave, would Scratch refer to him by name? She seems eager to dish out the contempt, especially to those she deems to be below her. Or it could be a clever ruse by a certain writer to make us doubt Pippen the whole time...

Hellbringer
May 9th, 2011, 09:22 PM
ok, I'm staying away from the whole firefight about Pippen and the gun... I don't need a shop owner's gun hitting me in the face enough times to not be totally recognizable in a passport photo.

I think the helo is a Sikorsky S-61R, or as I I know it, a Jolly Green Giant. I had to pull the real name from wiki, but that's been put out there in a previous post.

Now the point I'm interested in for this part of the chapter is that Burt mentions MP5s. If I remember correctly, the colony had some MP5s stashed away and they were from left by the rescue party (Coast Guard?) before they abandoned what would become the colony. I tie the MP5s to the crew of the helicopter and not the attackers of the helicopter. Of course, that doesn't help figure out who/what attacked the helicopter, but it might help flesh out some more theories with a little bit of more information.

ObamaCat
May 9th, 2011, 09:50 PM
I was a little disappointed by the length, but we can't have stellar 20 + min episodes all the time :p. Still a good episode, stocked for 22 now :)

I'll touch on two things that caught my attention during the episode that have most likely been brought up multiple times already :p

1) Kalani's story has some proof! A crashed Hawaiian liner on the tarmac! I don't know if Kalani mentioned a crash landing when he told his tale, I'll have to re-listen to the older episodes, but this is some serious evidence to back up his story.

2) Pipen's story is pretty convincing. Like j0be mentioned earlier, I would almost believe it if not for Scratch's little spiel about having to "drop off Pipen".

My 2 cents :)

mascaria
May 9th, 2011, 11:16 PM
I don't think this has been asked yet but...

If Pippin were a mole sent to the tower by the Mallers to spy or what ever then why oh why oh why in God's name did he tell the Tower that he came from the Mallers? The only other back story that could have put the Tower on edge in the same manner would be some one telling them they came from the Colony and had supported Gatekeeper. Pippin knew that the Tower and the Mallers had squabbed. So then why would he tell them?

Because he's telling the truth. Though we've only met one so far I'm sure there are other people in the greater Los Angeles area who are going it alone. Why didn't he say "Hey, I was camping and then everything happened and now I've been living alone!" Having Scratch beat him up and then send him to the Tower to tell the Tower that Scratch had beat him up and then he'd run off seems like a ridiculous difficult way to go about planting another mole.

Leedo2502
May 9th, 2011, 11:56 PM
Disclaimer: It's 2 am here and I may ramble a bit


It is an interesting point and one not too many people would be able to readily make. Now, could it be for dramatic effect? Sure, writers always have free license to create what ever reality that they want.

But that might be an explanation as to why that chopper is riddled with bullet holes and why mp5 casings are on the ground. If the dolled up Military chopper to look like USCG was used to disperse whatever started this whole mess that could be a good enough reason to start a fire fight with anyone. And mp5's I know are used by law enforcement in some cities....I just don't know what the LAPD 's weapon of choice is.

However, I think it's best to speculate more once Kc reveals the exact model of helicopter it was as he said he would. But I'd certainly stick a flag in this theory in case it holds water. Then you get to say I told you so to many a peeps if they come to fight you on it.

Ok I got another 2AM crackpot idea brewing... Sure KC might be taking liberties with the model aircraft being used but one idea that I have now is the whole Chapter title, Mark of The Beast. I know that KC likes to throw in multiple meanings into the CHapter titles. The first clear Mark of The Beast is the "5" on the Little One zombie that attacked the Maller convoy. But, going out on a limb here, what if the other Mark is the markings on the Helicopter showing it as a Coast Guard bird (it is a pretty big Aircraft if it produces an echo)?
Saul was in the 10th Mtn Div. while they do some Air Assault missions there focus is on walking and shooting, so he might not recognize that the aircraft infront of him shouldn't have USCG markings.
Another "maybe reading to much into things" moment... I'm wondering if the USCG even uses MP5's I know with the whole M4 and the M4 with the short Upper (forgot the nomenclature) I don't know of many units that still use MP5's.

I know I'm going out on a limb, but just something that was stuck in my head. And I totaly support the writing of WA and the need to take certain liberties. But I know that from what I've seen in the previous episodes is that KC puts a premium on realism (what my Army buddies and I love about the show), Magazines are changed Belts run out and Weapons jam... just like in real life.
And if all this is just KC taking dramatic liberties I'm fine with it... it certainly got me enjoying this episode more than usual trying to pick out certain "clues" LOL

Keep up the awesome work!!

Cutting-T
May 10th, 2011, 01:06 AM
All those talking about mentioning Pippin on a first name basis, that doesn't metter, Scratch 'dropped' him off and Pippin says he 'escaped', I do have a few theories which could show that Pippin is being completely honest but I don't think that will be the case.

Going back to earlier, specifically the We're Not Dead crew, Riley and Lizzy shared an apartement together, and although we didn't hear them talk much 'on microphone' we did get a glimpse of how much they interacted and were good friends in the "sweat" episode, when Lizzy gets back from the mission and they have a small conversation.

Out of all the characters, because they lived together, I think Riley and Lizzy were probably the closest friends.


I don't think this has been asked yet but...

If Pippin were a mole sent to the tower by the Mallers to spy or what ever then why oh why oh why in God's name did he tell the Tower that he came from the Mallers? The only other back story that could have put the Tower on edge in the same manner would be some one telling them they came from the Colony and had supported Gatekeeper. Pippin knew that the Tower and the Mallers had squabbed. So then why would he tell them?

Because he's telling the truth. Though we've only met one so far I'm sure there are other people in the greater Los Angeles area who are going it alone. Why didn't he say "Hey, I was camping and then everything happened and now I've been living alone!" Having Scratch beat him up and then send him to the Tower to tell the Tower that Scratch had beat him up and then he'd run off seems like a ridiculous difficult way to go about planting another mole.

Because one guy surving that whole time with an empty gun is even more suspicious.... If he is a mole, there is probably a lot of truth in what he is saying, he's probably being blackmailed somehow by the mallers. Its a lot easier to rely on truthful memories than to make stuff up.

Adventureless_Hero
May 10th, 2011, 05:13 AM
Blood isn't gonna just wash away with rain. Have you ever tried to clean up blood? You need cleaning supplies for that..

Love it. Thank you!


At about 2:50 douchebag err Pippin gives his account of his "getaway". He makes no mention of getting a gun. Where did his gun come from?
Answer: Scratch. When she dropped him off to infiltrate the tower.

I felt this was a pretty lame thing not to ask him. I hate unanswered questions like this. It makes me wonder, "Okay, did Michael and Kelly already ask him this before we were let in on the scene or did they just not ask him at all?" Kudos for wondering Tandem.


There's something I've been meaning to bring up about those whoa re saying Pippin got beat up so he obviously isn't working with the Mallers. There's an episode of Burn Notice where Michael Weston is about to be put in a cell with a Russian human trafficker and in order to sell his cover ID he had to be punched in the face legitimately 3 or 4 times. Because as he put it if you're going to be up close and personal with someone who needs to believe you've been beat up there's no way to get around that except to actually be punched in the face.

Just throwing that out there.

Michael-fucking-Weston! Yeah, even if Pippin didn't agree to be hit in the face, I'm sure Scratch had no problem beating his ass up anyway. Though you have to wonder, what if Scratch's cruel treatment of her comrades might actually make someone like Pippin defect. Maybe he made up his backstory so that he could truly be part of the Tower. If he came at them with, "Scratch wants me to be a mole, just like so-and-so was, but I don't want to be. I'm scared of that crazy bitch!"

bvglee
May 10th, 2011, 05:56 AM
I insist, Pippin is likely to be a mole, maybe he's an inmate, maybe he's forced (who knows, maybe Merry is held hostage) it doesn't matter, some details of his story doesn't add-up (and I originaly thought he was innocent until he opened his mouth).

As for the chopper I think its a HH-3F Pelican pressed back into service diring the crisis, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/hh-3f.htm, (Its from the S-61 family like the USAF Jolly Green Giant, the USN Sea King and USMC Marine One), Its huge, its amphibious and was the USCG specific version, until replaced by the Jayhawk in the 90's (the USGC version of the S-70, like the Army Blackhawk and Navy Seahawk, which are smaller and Saul could have recognized). And yes it could also be a CG Jolly Green Giant, because some USAF surplus were bought by the USCG.

Paola
May 10th, 2011, 07:47 AM
Did anyone else think about the airplane jokes that were chosen? The abortion skit? Do you think it's a little hint, or foreshadowing of someone's pregnancy? or maybe a tragedy that will befall a beloved character after she learns she is pregnant? (For example in the style of the movie Seven) This would mean right after Saul discovers Lizzy is preggers, one of them dies... Hope not...
When I listened to this that's exactly what I thought of too. I thought that it might be possible that Lizzy is pregnant and she might be sick.

Rock Daddy
May 10th, 2011, 07:55 AM
When I listened to this that's exactly what I thought of too. I thought that it might be possible that Lizzy is pregnant and she might be sick.

I know right? A good writer (like Kc) may use fun little tidbits like this one to foreshadow an event. Or it might just be coincidence. :p But if you go back to the old chapters, you'll see things that hold relevance later on. (There's even a street they turn down in chapter 3.3 named "PAUL". Well, that might be me reaching a little too far. ;)

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 10th, 2011, 08:02 AM
Good call Voodoo. Maybe the Mallers beat the shit out of his face because he didn't look exactly like the passport, and they didn't want the tower to catch on!

I'm going to say this again:
We're talking about criminals.. the most in'frigg'n genious folk on the planet. These are people to constantly get dope, money and other crap in and out of prison. These are people who create their own tattoo devices like Jedi making light sabers. They're the locked up version of McGyver.
Forging a passport will probably be in the skill set of at least 10 mallers.. at least.

Having said all that, non US citizens are used to maintaining their papers when outside their home country. Europeans have the ability to travel to multiple countries. France, Spain, Germany, Netherlands... are all a short flight or drive through the chunnel from the UK.
We're (Yanks) are the only ones who aren't conditioned to travel with "Papers." Mainly because we never need them. We vacation *go on Holiday* in our warm climates and do the winter thing in the...em.. wintery climates. No need to travel to Spain for sunshine when we have Miami or Phoenix.

So, lets say Pippen is a fake. His accent is a fake. He's a con man, a grifter.. per se. He's hoping no one in the Tower knows two things about a UK dialect. What's the purpose though?

Sorry but i'm gonna put on my Force Protection/Anti Terrorism Instructor Hat for a min... bare with me please:
What kind of HUMINT (Human Intelligence *gathering of intel via interpersonal contact) threat can he pose by showing up at the front door and telling them where he came from? Everyone will be on guard.
He won't make any friends and you need to get people to lower their guard in order to gather that kind of information. HUMINT's bread and butter is gathering bits and pieces of info and putting them together like a puzzle.
the Mallers are moving.
They aren't staying in the area (right???).

*unless Durai is simply expanding his territory and getting rid of the primary threat first*

Pippen's possible angles:
Sabotage: damaging equipment, poisoning rations
Espionage: think "The Rat". Clandestine reporting
Subversion: Think Hostile takeover through deception or outright violence. This is kinda what Steven was trying when he was questioning Burt's leadership. Eroding the belief in authority

So, where does Pippen fall in those categories? I'm not sure.
I'm of the belief that Pippen will be some help/value to the tower rather then hurting them.

My apologies for getting uppity and long winded.. LOL.

Leedo2502
May 10th, 2011, 08:06 AM
As for the chopper I think its a HH-3F Pelican pressed back into service diring the crisis, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/hh-3f.htm, (Its from the S-61 family like the USAF Jolly Green Giant, the USN Sea King and USMC Marine One), Its huge, its amphibious and was the USCG specific version, until replaced by the Jayhawk in the 90's (the USGC version of the S-70, like the Army Blackhawk and Navy Seahawk, which are smaller and Saul could have recognized). And yes it could also be a CG Jolly Green Giant, because some USAF surplus were bought by the USCG.

I'm not buying the SH-3 they just aren't big enough to get Saul and Burt that excited. And if it was an SH-3 Burt would have recognized it from his service in Vietnam. I know that you can say the same with the MH-53 but they weren't widely used in during Vietnam and then they were only used by the Air Force. The SH-3 that holds less than 20 people and the SH-92 which I suggested holds around 25 on the other hand the MH-53 holds around 50-60 people, that could have produced the echo (Never been in one myself) and show why Burt and Saul were so excited.

But like I said the USCG doesn't have the 53 so that makes me a bit suspicious (unless they have them in the WA universe). If I saw a V-22 with Army markings on it saying "we're here to help" I'd be weary (and not just because the V-22 killed more Marines than the Fedayeen).

Either way I can't wait until the 23rd

kafu288
May 10th, 2011, 08:40 AM
A lot of people were saying that Pippen isn't a very common name earlier so he must be lying... could be a surname. He was camping with friends - maybe Jordan and Longley survived.

Rock Daddy
May 10th, 2011, 08:44 AM
A lot of people were saying that Pippen isn't a very common name earlier so he must be lying... could be a surname. He was camping with friends - maybe Jordan and Longley survived.

Something IS fishy. IDK... Camping? Is there a lot of nice areas for camping around LA that would attract international visits? I guess so, if you're really into that sort of thing... Are there any Californians here that can shed some light on this for me?

Leedo2502
May 10th, 2011, 08:46 AM
Something IS fishy. IDK... Camping? Is there a lot of nice areas for camping around LA that would attract international visits? I guess so, if you're really into that sort of thing... Are there any Californians here that can shed some light on this for me?

I was thinking the same thing Rock Daddy. Is this guy Camping in East Hollywood or something LOL. I'm sure there are camping and hiking opprotunities to be had in the LA area but I wouldn't fly half way around the wold to do it.

bvglee
May 10th, 2011, 09:06 AM
A lot of people were saying that Pippen isn't a very common name earlier so he must be lying... could be a surname. He was camping with friends - maybe Jordan and Longley survived.

Nop, it seems not. In 4:30 Michael tells Kelly that the passport says "Pippen Elder" without a pause like in "Smith, John", I think its his "given" name.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 10th, 2011, 09:50 AM
I'm not buying the SH-3 they just aren't big enough to get Saul and Burt that excited. And if it was an SH-3 Burt would have recognized it from his service in Vietnam. I know that you can say the same with the MH-53 but they weren't widely used in during Vietnam and then they were only used by the Air Force. The SH-3 that holds less than 20 people and the SH-92 which I suggested holds around 25 on the other hand the MH-53 holds around 50-60 people, that could have produced the echo (Never been in one myself) and show why Burt and Saul were so excited.

But like I said the USCG doesn't have the 53 so that makes me a bit suspicious (unless they have them in the WA universe). If I saw a V-22 with Army markings on it saying "we're here to help" I'd be weary (and not just because the V-22 killed more Marines than the Fedayeen).

Either way I can't wait until the 23rd

The Coast Guard does have the Sikorsky S-61R which can hold 28 passengers, but I'm sure they can squeeze in more in their situation, although that does create a problem in terms of where they could store supplies for their trip. Looks like a few will be left behind, Saul and Burt are already two less, assuming they don't find Lizzy. But since the Helicopter is shot up anyway, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


I'm going to say this again:
We're talking about criminals.. the most in'frigg'n genious folk on the planet.

If they are so ingenious, why were they all in prison :rolleyes:

nikvoodoo
May 10th, 2011, 09:54 AM
If they are so ingenious, why were they all in prison :rolleyes:

Hey, even Moriarty got caught.

MrScott101
May 10th, 2011, 10:11 AM
The criminal mind focus's on obtaining what they want sometimes they are not all masterminds in not getting caught. Usually in a group there is one that masterminds the plan and that person's plan is for themselves to not get caught.

I can see a couple options, pippen is being blackmailed or forced to be at the Tower. One is for recon and assess their situation, two he's there to sabatoge another skirmish with the mallers!

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 10th, 2011, 10:23 AM
If they are so ingenious, why were they all in prison :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Apples and Oranges. LOL..

I should have phrased that as Prisoners are in'frigg'n genious instead of criminals.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 10th, 2011, 10:26 AM
The criminal mind focus's on obtaining what they want sometimes they are not all masterminds in not getting caught. Usually in a group there is one that masterminds the plan and that person's plan is for themselves to not get caught.

I can see a couple options, pippen is being blackmailed or forced to be at the Tower. One is for recon and assess their situation, two he's there to sabatoge another skirmish with the mallers!


Scott,

How much physical damage can one guarded unarmed and beat up guy do?

AdrianHD
May 10th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Scott,

How much physical damage can one guarded unarmed and beat up guy do?

A ton. It could be as easy as one of the Tower members sleeping on guard duty and Pippen (or is it Pippin? Ugh.) letting the door open for a zombie to rip up the place a bit.
If he is throw-away character, he can do a ton.

mascaria
May 10th, 2011, 12:48 PM
I was thinking the same thing Rock Daddy. Is this guy Camping in East Hollywood or something LOL. I'm sure there are camping and hiking opprotunities to be had in the LA area but I wouldn't fly half way around the wold to do it.

There are actually a lot of people who come to America to camp and hike across the country. You probably aren't going camping within Los Angeles proper but there is a lot of wilderness once you get outside of the sprawl.

HardKor
May 10th, 2011, 01:49 PM
There are actually a lot of people who come to America to camp and hike across the country. You probably aren't going camping within Los Angeles proper but there is a lot of wilderness once you get outside of the sprawl.

Pippin did say he was camping in a canyon, or something to that effect. While I don't know a lot about the geography of Europe, never having the pleasure of going there myself, but I do know the kinds of geography in the American southwest is pretty damn different from what you're going to find in the UK and the rest of Europe. So coming here to hike and camp out in the desert is a opportunity Pippin just wouldn't have had back home...assuming he is actually from the UK, which I'm inclined to believe at least that part of his story. Its his escape story that strikes me as fishy.

Blood & Ice Cream
May 10th, 2011, 02:39 PM
just listened to chapter 18 again and noted that Victor mentioned to Pegs and Lizzy that during the early days of the outbreak, the USCG was using helicopters to rescue the people who built the colony - but after a few days they stopped coming

so maybe they were transporting them back to LAX?

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 10th, 2011, 03:31 PM
just listened to chapter 18 again and noted that Victor mentioned to Pegs and Lizzy that during the early days of the outbreak, the USCG was using helicopters to rescue the people who built the colony - but after a few days they stopped coming

so maybe they were transporting them back to LAX?

That sounds about right. Transporting people from the location of the colony to LAX and onto planes to attempt an escape or relocation, but then again, where are the rest of the helicopters since they were only able to find one? Or maybe the other models were too small for what they needed and that was the only large one available. Ugh, I want the next episode already. :mad:

Robalypse
May 10th, 2011, 04:40 PM
Interesting thoughts and arguments as usual. I felt a bit stiffed on this episode, only because I desperately wanted to know what happened after the previous episodes cliff hanger. Those first two episodes in Chapter 21 were so damned good though, it's ok to have one that's a little more low key.

I still think Pippin is a rat bastard, for many of the reasons already argued in this thread. Hopefully I'm not just giving KC and the actor playing him too much credit, but he sounded way too angry and defensive when being questioned (as was pointed out already). If I had really been through an enormous mess like he would have, including a zombie apocalypse and being made a slave to a bunch of hardcore felons, I could sit and be questioned all day with no problem. In fact I would probably assume I had sought out a bunch of morons if they didn't question me heavily.

I think ol' Pippin must have been quite a nasty con artist and that's why he was chosen for the job. He could of been busted up prior to being dropped at the tower to mask that he doesn't exactly match the picture in the passport. Even if it is a match, it still definitely could be a fake...though I'm guessing KC was kind of steering that out of the realm of possibility with Kelly and Michael's discussion. I would get someone with at least some experience or knowledge of the U.K. (possibly Riley?) to grill him and see how much he knows about where he's supposed to be from. Another thing that steers me in that direction is that a lot of the British, "We're Alive," fans have been decrying his accent. As much care seems to have gone into choosing the cast for this show by Shane and KC, I'm not sure they would have willy nilly chosen someone to pretend to play a genuine, British character.

I know very little little about helicopters or the USCG, but my thoughts were a Chinook? That seems like it would be a good bird to transport lots of people.

BoomerXL
May 10th, 2011, 04:41 PM
Another episode....a ton more questions....can't wait for the next episode!

WestonWisdom
May 10th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Hey, even Moriarty got caught.

Didn't he take Holmes with him? Seems like a victory to me.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 10th, 2011, 05:49 PM
Another thing that steers me in that direction is that a lot of the British, "We're Alive," fans have been decrying his accent. As much care seems to have gone into choosing the cast for this show by Shane and KC, I'm not sure they would have willy nilly chosen someone to pretend to play a genuine, British character.

It might have been down to who was available and who wanted to do the podcast who could do a british accent. Unfortunately, after watching many episodes of the UK versions of Top Gear, The Office, Kitchen Nightmares, etc., I have to say Pippin's accent isn't super convincing but it gets the job done, so kudos to the actor for the effort.

Even Datu's accent annoyed me at times, since I'm Filipino and can recognize that accent instantly. However, like the actor (Jay Olegario) who voices Datu, I understand how difficult it can be to pull off a Filipino accent when you were raised in the states. Speaking english with a heavy Filipino accent only comes naturally to people raised there, so I commend his effort and I must say he's been getting much better.

Leedo2502
May 10th, 2011, 06:07 PM
The Coast Guard does have the Sikorsky S-61R which can hold 28 passengers, but I'm sure they can squeeze in more in their situation, although that does create a problem in terms of where they could store supplies for their trip. Looks like a few will be left behind, Saul and Burt are already two less, assuming they don't find Lizzy. But since the Helicopter is shot up anyway, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

S-61 and SH-3 are the same bird, one is a military version the other is civilian

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 10th, 2011, 06:09 PM
S-61 and SH-3 are the same bird, one is a military version the other is civilian

Well aware of that, I did look at wikipedia after all ;)

Leedo2502
May 10th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Well aware of that, I did look at wikipedia after all ;)

LOL Gotcha... I'm thinking that this was probably not a USCG bird KC was saying earlier in the forum that it wasnt the S-91 which the Coast Guard still uses and I'm guessing from his tone that it may be a bigger bird that's where I'm getting the MH/SH-53 idea from. KC was saying that the Nomenclature was going to be released later that the Nomenclature could be important.

Since the MH/SH-53 isn't used by the Coast Guard I'm thinking that it might just be some smoke and mirrors by some bigger group (maybe who ever initiated, or accidentaly let the outbreak happen). The Coast Guard is a more benign branch of the military and noone would fret seeing a flight of helicopters painted up looking like Coast Guard birds, the same can't be said for USAF or US Army birds.
I can't say this enough I may just be reading into this but maybe there is some subterfuge with the "Coast Guard" evacuation sites and Helicopters.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 08:13 AM
A ton. It could be as easy as one of the Tower members sleeping on guard duty and Pippen (or is it Pippin? Ugh.) letting the door open for a zombie to rip up the place a bit.
If he is throw-away character, he can do a ton.

He's guarded/watched. Plus they're already on high alert. He'd have to find a way to unlock his room, knock out or kill the person on duty AND find a way to call the creatures to the tower (not gonna happen since the Arena is on fire anyway).
They have a choke point set up for a reason... so anything getting in will do minimum damage before it's contained. They have more weapons, better weapons now as well.
To add to that, no one is going to be sleeping on duty again after Lizzie Gate anyway.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 08:20 AM
LOL Gotcha... I'm thinking that this was probably not a USCG bird KC was saying earlier in the forum that it wasnt the S-91 which the Coast Guard still uses and I'm guessing from his tone that it may be a bigger bird that's where I'm getting the MH/SH-53 idea from. KC was saying that the Nomenclature was going to be released later that the Nomenclature could be important.

Since the MH/SH-53 isn't used by the Coast Guard I'm thinking that it might just be some smoke and mirrors by some bigger group (maybe who ever initiated, or accidentaly let the outbreak happen). The Coast Guard is a more benign branch of the military and noone would fret seeing a flight of helicopters painted up looking like Coast Guard birds, the same can't be said for USAF or US Army birds.
I can't say this enough I may just be reading into this but maybe there is some subterfuge with the "Coast Guard" evacuation sites and Helicopters.

I'm still having trouble finding an American made helo large enough (that isn't a Chinook) to transport 20 plus people, one dog, one cat, all of Burt's weapons/Ammo, 2 or 3 pallets of MREs, tools, misc equipment and whatever water and clothes they bring.
They could rig a pallet under the bird or birds but the newbie pilot wouldn't know how to compensate for the weight shifting during flight.

j0be
May 11th, 2011, 08:22 AM
I'm still having trouble finding an American made helo large enough (that isn't a Chinook) to transport 20 plus people, one dog, one cat, all of Burt's weapons/Ammo, 2 or 3 pallets of MREs, tools, misc equipment and whatever water and clothes they bring.
They could rig a pallet under the bird or birds but the newbie pilot wouldn't know how to compensate for the weight shifting during flight.

Or they might leave the MRE pallets in favor of finding ones at Ft. Irwin.

Paola
May 11th, 2011, 08:24 AM
After listening to this Episode I get the feeling that Kalani knows what happened at the airport because he said he did have a crash landing after coming in from Hawaii after zombies invaded Hawaii. I also think that it might be possible that the planes from Hawaii could have had a zombie aboard bringing in the zombies. But I don't exactly remember if that was before or after the LA invasion so I don't know just a thought.

j0be
May 11th, 2011, 08:25 AM
After listening to this Episode I get the feeling that Kalani knows what happened at the airport because he said he did have a crash landing after coming in from Hawaii after zombies invaded Hawaii. I also think that it might be possible that the planes from Hawaii could have had a zombie aboard bringing in the zombies. But I don't exactly remember if that was before or after the LA invasion so I don't know just a thought.

I think a crash landing at an airport (especially post 9/11) would hit the news before rioters in downtown.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 08:27 AM
I'm still having trouble finding an American made helo large enough (that isn't a Chinook) to transport 20 plus people, one dog, one cat, all of Burt's weapons/Ammo, 2 or 3 pallets of MREs, tools, misc equipment and whatever water and clothes they bring.
They could rig a pallet under the bird or birds but the newbie pilot wouldn't know how to compensate for the weight shifting during flight.

Does the Chinook carry more than the MH-53? I've been on the Chinook and we struggled to get one platoon on one with all our gear (30ish dudes) and we had the seats out so we were on the floor. I thought that the MH-53 could hold over 50 combat troops.

kafu288
May 11th, 2011, 08:28 AM
I'd assume that they would be leaving a lot of stuff behind when they fly out and simply taking what was absolutely essential.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 08:29 AM
Or they might leave the MRE pallets in favor of finding ones at Ft. Irwin.

I was thinking about that too, adding some drama if they find that the food at Irwin was raided.

If I was in the tower I'd send out a party to check on the conditions at Ft. Irwin before burning my bridges and leaving the tower, congested roads be damned

kafu288
May 11th, 2011, 08:39 AM
They aren't going to have the time. The Z's are going to go ballistic: no human is going to be safe in LA. They are going to have to make a quick fire decision on whether they leave or stay and fight

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 08:48 AM
Does the Chinook carry more than the MH-53? I've been on the Chinook and we struggled to get one platoon on one with all our gear (30ish dudes) and we had the seats out so we were on the floor. I thought that the MH-53 could hold over 50 combat troops.

Data from Boeing CH-47D/F,[85] Army Chinook file,[86] International Directory[87]

General characteristics

Crew: 3 (pilot, copilot, flight engineer)
Capacity:

33–55 troops or
24 litters and 3 attendants or
28,000 lb (12,700 kg) cargo
Length: 98 ft 10 in (30.1 m)
Rotor diameter: 60 ft 0 in (18.3 m)
Height: 18 ft 11 in (5.7 m)
Disc area: 5,600 ft2 (2,800 ft2 per rotor disc) (260 m2)
Empty weight: 23,400 lb (10,185 kg)
Loaded weight: 26,680 lb (12,100 kg)

Civilians aren't going to be weighed down with gear like we are when we're in transport. They'll have a weapon, a bag or two and the clothes on their backs. Everything else will go as cargo. I'm assuming the numbers are less than 25 because Burt has the count as "20 plus" instead of 25 plus..blah, blah, blah.
With the weight this thing can carry i'll say it'll fit.

The two birds fit roughly the same amount of people but the Chinook is 10 feet longer, but the MH-53 has a heavier lift capacity. Seems to me that they'll both work.

Data from USAF MH-53J/M,[3] International Directory,[11] Vectorsite[12]

General characteristics

Crew: 6 (two pilots, two flight engineers and two aerial gunners)
Capacity: 37 troops (55 in alternate configuration)
Length: 88 ft (28 m)
Rotor diameter: 72 ft (21.9 m)
Height: 25 ft (7.6 m)
Empty weight: 32,000 lb (14,515 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 46,000 lb (50,000 lb in war time) (21,000 kg)
Powerplant: 2× T64-GE-100 turboshaft, 4,330 shp (3,230 kW) each
Rotor system: 6 blades
Performance

Maximum speed: 170 knots (196 mph, 315 km/h)
Cruise speed: 150 kt (173 mph, 278 km/h)
Range: 600 nmi (1,100 km) can be extended with in-flight refueling
Service ceiling: 16,000 ft (4,900 m)

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 08:55 AM
I was thinking about that too, adding some drama if they find that the food at Irwin was raided.

If I was in the tower I'd send out a party to check on the conditions at Ft. Irwin before burning my bridges and leaving the tower, congested roads be damned

Who in their right mind would leave behind food and water in the HOPE there would be some later??? That's a sure fire way of dying real slow like. That's how dummies end up not surviving survivable situations. Piss poor planning.
Leedo, they talked about a scouting party.. but they have the helo fuel problem remember? It's too far to drive roundtrip and there's no way to communicate if they had the fuel for a one way trip via car. The Prius was probably the only thing in the motor pool that would have been able to make the trip. IF, it was feasible.
Would you send a troop out on point without communication?

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 08:58 AM
The two birds fit roughly the same amount of people but the Chinook is 10 feet longer, but the MH-53 has a heavier lift capacity. Seems to me that they'll both work.

Good info! I've never been in a MH-53 and was a little shocked that they have roughly the same passenger capacity. When we were in the Chinook we were also loaded down for 2 weeks of steady operations so that might have had something to do with it LOL. The big point sticks to my crackpot theory is that the USCG doesn't have either bird in their inventories (unless there is a dramatic license being taken) and just has me going "hmm?"

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 09:03 AM
The Prius was probably the only thing in the motor pool that would have been able to make the trip. IF, it was feasible.
Would you send a troop out on point without communication?

Idealy no but that might be the only option. But you gotta think too what could the tower do to help the scouting party even if they were able to get word back.

An aside, you could send a party back to the Reserve center and pick up all the SINGARS there and set up a re-trans site along the way... put it up in a nice tall building with an OE-254 antena....

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 09:18 AM
Idealy no but that might be the only option. But you gotta think too what could the tower do to help the scouting party even if they were able to get word back.

An aside, you could send a party back to the Reserve center and pick up all the SINGARS there and set up a re-trans site along the way... put it up in a nice tall building with an OE-254 antena....


Ok.. SINGARS.. wait! do you mean SINCGARS? I'm going to assume Durai and Co cleaned those out as well, plus Sir Rapes a Lot said they have better comm equipment.
A retrans/OP/LP would be the best thing to do, BUT, they'd have to find a secure location because they'd be on their own for a really long time. Victor is the only one with that experience.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 09:22 AM
Ok.. SINGARS.. wait! do you mean SINCGARS? I'm going to assume Durai and Co cleaned those out as well, plus Sir Rapes a Lot said they have better comm equipment.
A retrans/OP/LP would be the best thing to do, BUT, they'd have to find a secure location because they'd be on their own for a really long time. Victor is the only one with that experience.

Yeah I forgot the 'C' LOL!
You could set those up without having someone man them... there is an auto retrans mode that you use with two radio's plugged together with some J cable (atleast I think it's J cable). I was thinking that you could set that up in some office building and have the antena running up on the roof hidden and whatnot.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 09:25 AM
Ok.. SINGARS.. wait! do you mean SINCGARS? I'm going to assume Durai and Co cleaned those out as well, plus Sir Rapes a Lot said they have better comm equipment.
A retrans/OP/LP would be the best thing to do, BUT, they'd have to find a secure location because they'd be on their own for a really long time. Victor is the only one with that experience.

And I'm betting the radios that the Mallers have are the police radios since Military radios are a bit more complex and the radios that cops have are a bit simpler... we used the Motorolla XTS while on post and as Squad commo in Kosovo and that's the same radio that Cops have

Kc
May 11th, 2011, 09:27 AM
SINCGARS? Devils advocate. I'm wondering if we set up one and turned it on if anyone without training could operate one.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 09:31 AM
Devils advocate. I'm wondering if we set up one and turned it on if anyone without training could operate one.

Well at the danger of incuring the wrath of Ra1th I'd say that Angel might not but Saul and Michael would have no problem... maybe Burt could pick it up and Victor could as well. But with no training and noone there to give the training I'd say that it would be nearly impossible for someone to operate on (like the Mallers)

Blood & Ice Cream
May 11th, 2011, 09:49 AM
one thing i don't understand is why Michael suggested Burt/Saul checkout LAX for large helicopters?

there is probably loads of the smaller commercial ones around, but coming from an army intelligence unit, wouldn't an army air base be the first place to look?

get burt/saul down to Los Alamitos Army Airfield and pick up that Chinook thats ready on the airfield now! ;)

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 10:06 AM
Yeah I forgot the 'C' LOL!
You could set those up without having someone man them... there is an auto retrans mode that you use with two radio's plugged together with some J cable (atleast I think it's J cable). I was thinking that you could set that up in some office building and have the antena running up on the roof hidden and whatnot.

ahh.. gotcha. gotcha.. That's way out of my lane so i'll leave defer to your exp on that. It sounds like a solid plan

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 10:09 AM
one thing i don't understand is why Michael suggested Burt/Saul checkout LAX for large helicopters?

there is probably loads of the smaller commercial ones around, but coming from an army intelligence unit, wouldn't an army air base be the first place to look?

get burt/saul down to Los Alamitos Army Airfield and pick up that Chinook thats ready on the airfield now! ;)

The better bet would have been to get to Los Angeles Air Force Base and hope on a C130 (if they had a pilot).

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 10:10 AM
Well at the danger of incuring the wrath of Ra1th I'd say that Angel might not but Saul and Michael would have no problem... maybe Burt could pick it up and Victor could as well. But with no training and noone there to give the training I'd say that it would be nearly impossible for someone to operate on (like the Mallers)

Leedo,

I'm under the impression that a good number of the mallers have prior military exp. Mr. I Got Puked On knew about a double fed M16, he's a bomb expert and mans their communications.
Scratch on the other hand couldn't tell they were being led into a prime ambush spot despite knowing what "Kill Zone" is.
Durai is obviously running a really tight ship with military precision.. oh crap, i'm using logic again aren't I?

ahem.. moving right along, LOL@ trying to stay off Ra1th's radar! Boy could I have used you in some earlier threads. ROFL!

Kc
May 11th, 2011, 10:19 AM
wouldn't an army air base be the first place to look?

get burt/saul down to Los Alamitos Army Airfield and pick up that Chinook thats ready on the airfield now! ;)
LAX was closer to where Burt and Saul were. (Is that verb tense correct?)

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 11th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Why would the verb be tense? They should learn to relax.

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 11th, 2011, 10:47 AM
The real kicker in finding out what kind of Helicopter they are talking about is that it must be used by the US Coast Guard. I still suspect its probably Sikorsky S-61R since that is used by the Coast Guard and its the model of which they based the military version after and they both can hold large numbers of people (according to wikipedia anyway).


Quote Originally Posted by Leedo2502 View Post
For anyone interested I think the Helicopter that's mentioned is the Sikorsky S92. I'm not sure what the Coast Guard designator is but Burt mentioned that it was "Big, one of the bigest that we could have hoped for". Unless anyone else knows better I think that this is the biggest bird that the USCG has... unless it isn't the USCG (cue the suspense music)
You're close, but it's not that one. The exact type will be revealed later. The reason for the echo, is because it's rather large on the inside.

Because of that I still think its a Sikorsky S-61R since a Sikorsky S92 was close and I can only assume that its the same maker.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 11:17 AM
Leedo,

I'm under the impression that a good number of the mallers have prior military exp. Mr. I Got Puked On knew about a double fed M16, he's a bomb expert and mans their communications.
Scratch on the other hand couldn't tell they were being led into a prime ambush spot despite knowing what "Kill Zone" is.
Durai is obviously running a really tight ship with military precision.. oh crap, i'm using logic again aren't I?

ahem.. moving right along, LOL@ trying to stay off Ra1th's radar! Boy could I have used you in some earlier threads. ROFL!

You know as I was writing that I thought about that some of the Mallers might have some military experince. I'm guessing it's not going to be many though. I am impressed with the orginization that Durai has set up, more gang style than military but still. There could be a few Ex-Military types that the Mallers have "pressed" into service as well. But I agree that they did miss that whole ambush site which shows they don't have the tactics down yet LOL!

And I'm not to eagar to see Ra1th's reaction to me saying that Angel might not be the most top notch super soldier LOL

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 11:30 AM
ahh.. gotcha. gotcha.. That's way out of my lane so i'll leave defer to your exp on that. It sounds like a solid plan

The only thing that I forgot was that you'd need a power source that'd last longer than the regular battery... We set one up in Kosovo that we had to watch (Not operate) and make sure the locals didn't grab any of the radios or generator that they were plugged into.

bvglee
May 11th, 2011, 01:07 PM
The MH-53 Pave Low and HH-53 Super Jolly Green Giant, are USA/USAF, and the CH-53 Stallion/Super Stallion are USN/USMC, no USCG listed as user. If it is a real USCG chopper, I still think it is a HH-3F Pelican (the CG's S-61). Wiki lists a crew of 3 and 28 passegers, enough for "twenty something" and if they are hoping (with capital H) to find two birds, well... abandoned CG stuff will do.

What intrigues me is the ease that Kalani assumes that he can not only fly, but instruct other pilot to fly an unknown chopper, in unknown condition, with no mechanic/crew chief, that he may not be certified or even experienced to fly. Choppers are damn complicated to fly/maneuver/maintain/repair, it's a way more than choose between gears or auto, check the oil and kick the tires. So, carrying honeymooners in a Jetranger seems waaaay too different to flying between 20-30 passengers w/their load and supplies in a heavy/medium lift military chopper, let alone teach another person to do it.

I'm still for the tiny Cessna recon prior to the trek, they don't even know for sure if Irwin is overrun, hostile or even safe. I'd send Kalani, Angel and Victor in the plane (I'm sure there should be plenty of them) to scout the area, look for suitable choppers and alternate spots for landing or refueling if/when Mr Murphy shows up. You can even take Saul to check for Lizzy from the air.

Leedo2502
May 11th, 2011, 01:19 PM
The MH-53 Pave Low and HH-53 Super Jolly Green Giant, are USA/USAF, and the CH-53 Stallion/Super Stallion are USN/USMC, no USCG listed as user.

That's the point I'm making... KC said I was close with the S-92, that's what made me jump to MH-53. And the fact that the USCG and although I may be reading into KC's response I am getting that there are some conspiratorial undertones to the whole thing.

Kc
May 11th, 2011, 02:25 PM
That's the point I'm making... KC said I was close with the S-92, that's what made me jump to MH-53. And the fact that the USCG and although I may be reading into KC's response I am getting that there are some conspiratorial undertones to the whole thing.
Close is a relative term. Someone might be closer. It's not a huge detail, but you'll know it soon enough.

Hellbringer
May 11th, 2011, 09:08 PM
I don't think the chopper is a Chinook. I'm sure Burt or Saul would've called it one if that was what it was.

Watch KC throw us for a loop and have the helicopter be a Puma or a Merlin.

Or even more of a twist... what if a company like Blackwater (now Xe) or something similar was contracted to help with the evacuation and had to slap on USCG markings on their helicopters to help out? It could explain the MP5s encountered at the colony and their shell casings around the bird that Burt and Saul found around the shot up bird.

HardKor
May 11th, 2011, 09:29 PM
Or even more of a twist... what if a company like Blackwater (now Xe) or something similar was contracted to help with the evacuation and had to slap on USCG markings on their helicopters to help out? It could explain the MP5s encountered at the colony and their shell casings around the bird that Burt and Saul found around the shot up bird.

As fast as things went to Hell during the first stages of the outbreak, I have a hard time believing that people would be taking the time to re-paint helicopters. Unless there was some sort of cover up related to the origins of the outbreak.
But I'm more inclined to take the USCG markings at face value and believe that there was a rescue station at LAX similar to the one that was at The Colony early on and things just went to hell. This all is starting to make me wonder where the survivors who were rescued from those stations were taken though. Is there a "safe zone" somewhere where those lucky enough to catch a ride were taken? And if so how will they come into play later on?

Kn1ckerb0cker33
May 12th, 2011, 04:18 AM
But I'm more inclined to take the USCG markings at face value and believe that there was a rescue station at LAX similar to the one that was at The Colony early on and things just went to hell. This all is starting to make me wonder where the survivors who were rescued from those stations were taken though. Is there a "safe zone" somewhere where those lucky enough to catch a ride were taken? And if so how will they come into play later on?

That's probably what happened. The Helicopters from the colony (and possibly anywhere else in the area) were probably evacuating people to LAX where they were probably boarding planes to some safe zone, as you said, that hasn't been discovered by the Tower peeps yet.

Whether or not any survivors from the evacuation are still in the LA area I would find unlikely since LA was pretty much overwhelmed with "zombie activity" and I would doubt that anyone would want to stick around anywhere close, unless something happened on the plane/helicopter they were on and crashed landed somewhere close by or on the outskirts of LA. They'd probably try to get as far away as possible, perhaps a fortified military base somewhere or maybe a Presidential bunker of some sort (a la Independence Day). Who, aside from KC, really knows?

All I know is that these episodes don't come fast enough :p

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 12th, 2011, 05:56 AM
Close is a relative term. Someone might be closer. It's not a huge detail, but you'll know it soon enough.

See, there he goes again! Theory target practice! hahah.

nikvoodoo
May 12th, 2011, 09:31 AM
Whether or not any survivors from the evacuation are still in the LA area I would find unlikely since LA was pretty much overwhelmed with "zombie activity" and I would doubt that anyone would want to stick around anywhere close, unless something happened on the plane/helicopter they were on and crashed landed somewhere close by or on the outskirts of LA.

The one thing that has been irking me is at what point did the Mallers start taking their slaves? It's slightly implied it was after the war with the Tower. So there might be more pockets of survivors than we originally thought. The Mallers were at least capable of finding over 30 slaves (if you go with Pippin's idea that there were more slaves than convicts, and Scratch's team had 30 members) after the War? Or was it before the War?

Rock Daddy
May 12th, 2011, 10:23 AM
I think about the slave question a lot. But what really picks at me is that Durai had "plans" for all the tanker trucks VERY early on (according to Scratch) Was he planning to blow up the arena from the beginning? or did his plan change into this? How could he know about the arena from so early on?

Arkum
May 12th, 2011, 11:20 AM
I assume the Mallers had scouting parties very early on. I would think Durai would want a lay of the land real quick after they made the mall their home. Maybe he found out about the Arena from one of those original scouting parties

Leedo2502
May 12th, 2011, 01:56 PM
Close is a relative term. Someone might be closer. It's not a huge detail, but you'll know it soon enough.

Damn I was hoping it WAS going to be a huge detail! Oh well I had fun theorizing about the helicopter LOL

nikvoodoo
May 12th, 2011, 02:29 PM
Oh well I had fun theorizing about the helicopter LOL


All the theorizing about the helicopter melted my brain stem. :p

Too much good information about things I know nothing about and my mind just kinda went "uh..........no"

Hellbringer
May 12th, 2011, 02:33 PM
I think about the slave question a lot. But what really picks at me is that Durai had "plans" for all the tanker trucks VERY early on (according to Scratch) Was he planning to blow up the arena from the beginning? or did his plan change into this? How could he know about the arena from so early on?

Makes me think back to when Scratch and Latch followed Burt, Saul, and Lizzie and stopped by a tanker back in Season One and how Latch claimed that tanker for Durai when he was talking to the group.

ilanagl
May 12th, 2011, 05:11 PM
not the best episode but so amazing. nice quiet end, i liked it. loved the airplane reference. wish one really did come out next week.

HaveCrowBarWillTravel
May 13th, 2011, 07:29 AM
The one thing that has been irking me is at what point did the Mallers start taking their slaves? It's slightly implied it was after the war with the Tower. So there might be more pockets of survivors than we originally thought. The Mallers were at least capable of finding over 30 slaves (if you go with Pippin's idea that there were more slaves than convicts, and Scratch's team had 30 members) after the War? Or was it before the War?

Nik,

Pippen states that the numbers are skewed because of the "War."
I'm wondering just how many mallers did die because of the assault and creature attack. Maybe that's why Durai went on the offensive against the infected.
They're the most numerous opponent, but the least able to defend themeselves.

bvglee
May 13th, 2011, 05:35 PM
Maybe that's why Durai went on the offensive against the infected.
They're the most numerous opponent, but the least able to defend themeselves.

And potential "reinforcements" for the Tower if the Maller go for a rematch.

wiffadabiffa
May 13th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Wasn't impressed that Lizzy's story wasn't told in this one...but I guess it was AWESOME because of that helicopter thingy mahingy!!!

symon_r
May 14th, 2011, 11:25 AM
Was this the first episode that we heard Saul's call-sign?

Any ideas on why he is "Penguin" - I wondered if it was a nod to plot for this chapter.

Penguin = flight less water bird = Coast Guard helicopter that has been nobbled

j0be
May 14th, 2011, 01:49 PM
Was this the first episode that we heard Saul's call-sign?
Any ideas on why he is "Penguin" - I wondered if it was a nod to plot for this chapter.
Penguin = flight less water bird = Coast Guard helicopter that has been nobbled

Not the first part to have this quote, but it was the first chapter. It could be because "broken wing" was already taken, and "chicken" is a little too cliché.

Walrusgus
May 14th, 2011, 07:07 PM
Well thanks iTunes for playing up and not downloading We're Alive until today. Anyway....

Great episode still suspicious bout Pippin, especially his accent! I want to know what's up with Lizzy. It seemed like such a short episode! DMAN YOU KC. You always have me coming back for more!

symon_r
May 15th, 2011, 04:18 AM
Well thanks iTunes for playing up and not downloading We're Alive until today. Anyway....

Great episode still suspicious bout Pippin, especially his accent! I want to know what's up with Lizzy. It seemed like such a short episode! DMAN YOU KC. You always have me coming back for more!

This was another point that I wanted to bring up but I know it has been discussed before. As someone who has been born and raised in London it definetely sounds like the actor playin Pippin is putting on an English accent and a fairly sterotypical (and wholely unrealistic) one at that.

I would imagine that there would have been a decent number of native english actors available if this wasnt a deliberate plot choice...

Th3_T3ch
May 16th, 2011, 06:58 PM
About the second pilot and Saul... Saul is specialization in the mountain division. I don't know a bunch about being a specialist in the military but I do know the best way to move around a mountain is by Helicopter. Also, Saul said that HE would fly the helicopter looking for Lizzy does that mean that Saul has at least some flying experience.

Nevermatter
May 18th, 2011, 06:08 AM
Oh man, We need to get Donald Trump in here to start demanding that Pippen produce his long form birth certificate! I just really dont believe the guy is on the up and up. And I know that scratches coment about dropping him off seemed too obvious but its still a clue as to something is not right.

clparson
May 18th, 2011, 08:27 AM
I just have to say I hate Pippen's name. "Pip pip cheerio! My name is Pippen! Care for a spot of tea?" It is such a stereotypical name for an Englishman. I believe Charles Dicken's protagonist in Great Expectations was Pip. Anway, I think the name Pippen is a bit over the top. But, I still love the show, don't get me wrong!

Also, I really like the character development of Michael. You can really tell in this chapter just how worn down he is. He is trying to do what he thinks is right, but in these circumstances, what is right and just may get you killed.

Kelly seems to be acting a little odd in this chapter. I never thought of her as the rat, but she is acting way to suspicious for me to ignore it.

nikvoodoo
May 18th, 2011, 09:10 AM
About the second pilot and Saul... Saul is specialization in the mountain division. I don't know a bunch about being a specialist in the military but I do know the best way to move around a mountain is by Helicopter. Also, Saul said that HE would fly the helicopter looking for Lizzy does that mean that Saul has at least some flying experience.

I thought I saw one of our military users mention him being in Mountain division wouldn't necessarily mean he would know how to fly a chopper.....or am I imagining things again because I went off my meds?......*twitch*

I still believe the most likely pilot is Pegs because she (aside from Saul's Mountain Division thing) is the only one with stated connections to flying with her Captain father. Either that, or they both can fly....at which point I still thinks Pegs is the pilot because I'm standing by my theory that Saul is gonna bite the dust sooner or later.


Kelly seems to be acting a little odd in this chapter. I never thought of her as the rat, but she is acting way to suspicious for me to ignore it.

What are you referring to when you say she's acting odd? I'm just wondering because I want to know what you were picking up that we might have missed. I don't think anyone else in this massive 18 page thread has said Kelly was acting strangely. (And if you did sorry! It's a massive 18 page thread and I might have missed something!)

bvglee
May 18th, 2011, 09:28 AM
...Kelly seems to be acting a little odd in this chapter. I never thought of her as the rat, but she is acting way to suspicious for me to ignore it.

What do U mean?. How could she be the Maller's mole? It's possible, (she's a lawyer, and not D.A., and migth know some of the scum from Eastern Bay) but it's improbable.

symon_r
May 18th, 2011, 02:57 PM
I thought I saw one of our military users mention him being in Mountain division wouldn't necessarily mean he would know how to fly a chopper.....or am I imagining things again because I went off my meds?......*twitch*

I have no personal military experience but certainly read a fair bit around that subject and, for me, mountain troop/division has always been more about being a capable climber. Also, do I recall Saul mentioning his skill and knowledge of knots when they were setting up the zipline? Of course if he is a capable climber that doesnt mean he doesnt have flying experience.


What are you referring to when you say she's acting odd? I'm just wondering because I want to know what you were picking up that we might have missed. I don't think anyone else in this massive 18 page thread has said Kelly was acting strangely. (And if you did sorry! It's a massive 18 page thread and I might have missed something!)

Again, not something I had mentioned but her reaction to Michael during the inteorgation did seem a little odd to me too but I heard it as a way to discomfort Pippin.

Actually is it more proper to address guests of WND as Sir before commenting on their post? :)

nikvoodoo
May 18th, 2011, 02:58 PM
Actually is it more proper to address guests of WND as Sir before commenting on their post? :)
Yes, yes it is. Now don't you ever mess that up again peasant!!!! :p

Please don't ever call me sir. I have enough issues with formality as it is. I didn't wear a tuxedo for my wedding because my wife knew I would be uncomfortable all day for wearing a monkey suit.

symon_r
May 18th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Yes, yes it is. Now don't you ever mess that up again peasant!!!! :p

Please don't ever call me sir. I have enough issues with formality as it is. I didn't wear a tuxedo for my wedding because my wife knew I would be uncomfortable all day for wearing a monkey suit.

As a sarcastic Londoner have you any idea how difficult it is to not reply with "Ok, Sir"?

P.S: Just noticed the edit post button available to the post author; I'll make sure to use it in future

Adventureless_Hero
Jun 9th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Did anyone notice that when they were initially interrogating Pippin at the entrance to the Tower that you hear a large explosion in the distance. They all get down and duck. Then they head outside and a second series of explosions are heard. So that's two explosions. When Lizzie, Tar, and Bricks are at the arena the chapter ends at the first explosion. Is there more to follow?

Hellbringer
Jun 9th, 2011, 02:30 PM
Did anyone notice that when they were initially interrogating Pippin at the entrance to the Tower that you hear a large explosion in the distance. They all get down and duck. Then they head outside and a second series of explosions are heard. So that's two explosions. When Lizzie, Tar, and Bricks are at the arena the chapter ends at the first explosion. Is there more to follow?

I've been wondering about that for weeks now. I'm hoping Chapter 23 has Lizzy and company in it, because I want to know about what happened as well as the whole weapon thing that Scratch was talking about (yeah, I ain't leaving that alone).

Kn1ckerb0cker33
Jun 9th, 2011, 07:53 PM
It could have been that it was one of the other trucks exploding right after another, since they were "chained" to explode at the same time. I'll have listen to the episode again so I'll check back later.